LeBoiteux

Not especially about buccaneers nor French ppl, but with some information from Archives on French pirates, buccaneers, freebooters, privateers, shipowners, ports... In French. By an Archaeologist : J-. P. Moreau, Une histoire des pirates : Des mers du Sud à Hollywood

a battle denial feature? Great idea !

What about also adding as option "creating an anti-social perk" that could negate the effect of social perk of someone else ? Only those interested in that social perk option wouldn't have it...

Another interesting lead might be armament customization for Corvettes and light frigates (Rattlesnake, Surprise, Cerberus...) : captains would be able to choose in port the number of guns and their location (gunport, forecastle, quarterdeck) making ship BR vary. For example, you start with a plain 24-gun Surprise, all on the gundeck. And you can add as many guns as you wish (within historical or reasonable limits) on the quarterdeck and on the forecastle. A way to fill in gaps in the ship lineup, customize your ship and to be in control of your ship armament. Knowing enemy's ship type in OW wouldn't be enough to know her armament. That way, with L'Unité / Surprise, you could have a 24-gun ship up to a 38-gun ship. With a Cerberus : 24 up to say 28 guns. In terms of modeling for that customization, it might be just a matter of having (at most) 3 models of a ship when possible, adding/removing barricades : one without barricades, one with quarterdeck barricades and one with quarterdeck/forecastle barricades. Those possible barricades could be crafted separately by crafters. Another way would be to close unused gunports in barricades.

@ Maturin : Thx for the information. Post above edited : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15597-corvette/?p=298761

Edit : plagiarists...

It might be a matter of fine tuning (maybe it's too much now I don't know) but warship cargo holds needed to be increased to add one more line in your scenario : 5. A lonely captain sail for a "long" voyage : fishing + hunting a trader (or a couple) + get a wreck treasure trove + trade say 50-100 of something + fight a couple of time. With those new cargo hold, you won't buy all the goods of the Caribbean in a voyage or make your small warship/frigate an indestructible armed trader, you'll just have some space for multi-tasking during the same voyage. It will add sailors in OW. More time in the sea. More PvP.

sry for english terminology I don't know What I meant (and I was waiting for advice) is that on the plan of the Tourterelle, the front part of the deck above the gundeck seem disconnected from the rear part : whereas in game, in the Surprise, both are "continous" meaning there's a kind of "bridge" between them. Moreover I don't know if the... "barricades" (?) of La Tourterelle are lower than those of HMS Surprise (english version) :

1) French builder Forfait designed the sistership of the French version (i.e. L'Unité) with 30 guns : 24 guns firing 8-pdrs on the gundeck and 6 guns firing 4-pdrs on the quarterdeck (Boudriot, La Créole, p. 36 ). 2) Current ingame version of HMS Surprise carries 38 guns : 24 9-pdrs guns on the gundeck + 14 6-pdrs guns on the weatherdeck So we could have ingame : - British HMS Surprise : 38 guns = 24 x 9-pdrs + 14 x 6-pdrs + current chasers. - French L'Unité : 30 guns = 24 x 9-pdrs + 6 x 6-pdrs on quarterdeck (+ chasers ?) ; without forecastle barricades. That way, L'Unité would be a direct opponent to 30-gun La Renommée and HMS Cerberus if she gets her original armament (28 guns).

Et si tous les 2 vous faisiez une petite pause, histoire de respirer et d'oublier un peu tout ça...

More mid-18C ships are needed in NA Oh, btw : French naval Sculpture Louis XIV (1643-1715) : sculpture for the glory of the king The iconography is adapted to the name of the ship, a name related to the mythology of the Sun King Apollo (The Bright (Le Brillant), The Royal Sun (Soleil-Royal)…) or to a quality given to him (The Strong (Le Fort), The Good (Le Bon), The Courageous (Le Courageux)…). Louis XV (1715-1774): sculpture as ornemental decoration In 1715, French Naval sculpture is inspired by the 18C artistic movement Rococo. Sculpture is filled with acanthus leaves, shells, Venus, putti (little chubby Eros) and nymphs. Spirit of that age is less violent as ship names show it : The Pleasant (L’Agréable), The Lovable (L’Aimable), The Reputation (La Renommée). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rococo In 1760, a major change in Art appears with the neoclassical style inspired by the ruins of Pompei that have just been discovered. The surface to be decorated is reduced. Louis XVI (1774-1793) : standardisation of the decoration Decline of the absolutism and abandon of Art as propaganda intensify the disinterest in naval sculpture. In 1777, measures are taken to standardize naval decoration. The lion as figurehead is imposed. 1782-1786 : the standardisation of the decoration and a non-figurative style are imposed. The decoration is reduced to decorative frieze on the stern and a simple cartouche. By 1789, decoration is reduced to the coat of royal arms French Revolution (1793-1804) and First empire (1804-1815) : the renewal of figurative art With the French Revolution, ships have to convey a new propaganda. Allegorical figures come back as figureheads with symbolic names : The Revolutionary (Le Révolutionnaire)… With the 1st Empire, the decoration is inspired by ancient art : eagles, laurel wreath… Source : http://www.musee-marine.fr/sites/default/files/la_sculpture_navale_secondaire.pdf

La Palme French Corvette (1744-1748) 85,5 x 22,8 x 10,6 (pieds du Roi) 12 guns firing 4-pdrs Built at Brest (France) by Joseph-Louis Ollivier at the age of 15. He will also build among others L'Amarante (1747) : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7682-french-corvettes-collection-6th-rates-with-plans/?p=140019 Biography (in French) : https://troisponts.wordpress.com/2012/05/20/nouvelle-monographie-la-corvette-lamarante-1747/ Building features : - hull with quite a flat bottom and substantial tumblehome, - no forecastle, - upper part of the hull is low above the waterline, - displacement : 265 tx, - general design is modern. Sources : Boudriot, La Créole, 1993, p. 16-19. Thx to Sella22 !

L'Admire L'Armide ? https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armide_(1812) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armida

Yes my friend, when speaking of sailing of course... Made by Ozanne, she was the only one Corvette built during the French Revolution-1st Empire that has been appreciated. Mainly because of her speed. So much that her plan was reused in 1822-1826 to build 18-gun corvette-aviso. Some have been used till 1843-1869. Baron Tupinier called her "the best model to follow" in 1822. Interesting for NA as we have the plan.

I tried to quickly surimpose them on layers in a drawing software. Main visible difference seems to be quarterdeck and forecastle elevations. And the quarterdeck and the forecastle don't seem to be connected on the French version, am I right ?

That Unité is part of experiments made on Corvettes during the French Revolution/1st Empire giving them weird armament / number of guns. They were disliked as Corvettes. Very few were built. Brigs and Frigates were then preferred. At that time only 20-gun corvettes were appreciated for a given feature as corvette : speed. And the 1801 20-gun Diligente become a reference during the first half of the 18th century as corvette-aviso. So definitions and classifications help our understanding of the Age of Sail and how to experiment sailing ourselves in game. On the contrary, using unused, weird or prototype examples of corvette to define the type doesn't help and is just confusing. Saying that any ship with say 1 to 38 guns can be called a corvette is just making things confusing. Words have been invented to clarify the world not to make it unclear. Now I won't insist. My only goal was to point out that having a c. 1800 20-gun Corvette would be nice. Let's call her XSDZ123.

1) Measurement of a 1793 24-gun corvette (Boudriot, La Créole, p. 36) : 117,9 x 29,2 x 14,4 ; 656 tx. Could someone compare those data (in pieds du roi ?) with those (in ft ?) of HMS Surprise : 2) Couldn't this French Unité that has been refitted in HMS Surprise (that is now in NA) be a 30+ gun privateer Frigate with no link with the 1793 24-gun corvette ?

Thx so much. I didn't know that plan existed. So great ! Now let's look at the transformations.

That's trolling. I see you decided to be dishonest with me and you use all rhetorical means. So that's the last time I reply to you till you don't change your mind. First, 24-gun 1793 French Unité is indeed a corvette. I've never said anything else. Second, I didn't demand proof about that. I demanded proof that French men called XVIIIth century 28-gun 9-pdr ships (24 guns + 4 guns on an armed QD) "Corvettes". I'm still waiting for that proof as those ships were described as Frigates on French plans. I've already given you all necessary references : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15800-french-frigates-book-research/?p=296697 In the French Navy ? Common ? And French navy still called them Corvettes ? Give me the proof of those facts. I'm not like you : I want to learn. And I'm ready to agree with you if you prove what you say. Till then I will believe a renown expert : Boudriot. Experiments have been made with Corvettes such as with those c. 1793 24-gun corvettes. These one are said to be unappreciated. And few were built. Boudriot only lists 5 of them. The only c. 1800 corvettes that really worked were 20-gun ones. My last reply to you.

Indeed, it would be an easy way to model a 24-gun corvette (if ingame Surprise = 1793 24-gun Corvette Unité). That said, Boudriot writes that 1793-1794 24-gun Corvettes weren't very appreciated. And only a few were built. Boudriot only lists 5 of them.

Thx and sorry, my mistake : beside the 1744 8-pdr Renommée, Boudriot mentions a 1767 12-pdr Renommée. Corrected. I guess you mean that French abandoned 9-pdr armament on frigates at the moment of the US revolutionary War and gave it to Corvettes, not that any c. 1800 Corvette ever carried as many guns as 30. Max = 24 guns. First 32-gun Corvettes don't show up before 1827 firing caronades of 30-pdrs.

A French corvette is a 3-masted sloop-of-war that never had more than 24 guns on her gundeck (and none on her quarterdeck when there was one) during our period (that's why, of all ingame ships, the small Rattlesnake is for the moment the closest to the XVIIIth century French definition). About l'Unité : French built her in 1793 as a Corvette with 24 guns firing 8-pdrs, all on her gundeck, no armed quarterdeck of course (Boudriot, La Créole, p. 37). British 38-gun Surprise in game with her adding 14 guns on her quarterdeck wouldn't be a Corvette anymore but a frigate to Frenchmen. See plan with British refit : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7078-blue-prints-of-ships-already-in-game/ About the Cerberus : with her current 26 guns, she is a gap filler in game. IRL she was a 28-gun frigate with 24 guns on her gundeck and 4 on her quaterdeck. So she's characteristic of mid-18th century 8-pdr French Frigates (see Boudriot, History of the French frigates, p. 88). She's not a Corvette. Btw, there are also French 8-pdr frigates with 26 guns on their gundeck as the current Cerberus in game. About the Cerberus being a gap filler, to fill the gap between 20 and 28 guns : (1) you could find mid-18th century French 8-pdr frigates with 24 or 26 guns (see Boudriot, History of the French frigates, p. 88). (2) if ingame Surprise = 1793 French L'Unité, you could also simply use your 3D model of the Surprise, remove the 14 guns on her quarterdeck, remove possible British transformations of her quaterdeck and forecastle and call her l'Unité. (3) you could use the plan of a 1827 24-gun corvette (plans we have, e.g. La Créole, p. 41) but with 9-pdr of course. About the Renommée : with her 30 guns and armed QD, she's definitely a 8-pdr frigate, not a Corvette (see Boudriot, History of the French frigates). If you want the feeling of sailing a French Corvette, implement a 20-gun Corvette firing 6-pdrs or 9-pdrs. La diligente (1801) is the best choice : she was fast, no quaterdeck/forecastle. Her plan we still have was a success as it was used through the 1st half of the 19th century as a Corvette aviso. See La Créole, p. 42 and http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7682-french-corvettes-collection-6th-rates-with-plans/?p=153304

NPC = non-player character = (ro)bot = AI ship = ship not controlled by a player (but robot ≠ rowboat) BR = battle ratting = power indicator of a ship in combat. Small ships have small BR and vice versa. See : http://navalaction.wikia.com/wiki/Ships LOS : line of sight. In NA, visibility in the OW. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_sight_(gaming)

"T'arrête" ? C'est dommage

On a second thought, in fairness to PvEers, such a proposal needs its counterpart as being attacked is half the fun of NA and PvEers are for the moment "robbed" of that. So I propose that if PvE/PvP servers are merged, PvP players' aggressiveness will be disabled : only " a small measure of roaming player privateers" will be able to tag and attack other players because to a PvEer, "all PvP players being agressive (...) is annoying".