phantomswake

"That's what I thought so why is everyone complaining so much. It's not like a newb can pay and win. They're still going to have to grind for hours before they can purchase the DLC. And if they weren't replaceable then how likely would many people be to risk their ships." Read the whole thread and it will be crystal clear, we don't need to restate this case over and over and over, its there if you cared to look for it.

"I am not sure why this conversation even started, as we already mentioned couple of months before. First rate Imported ship is coming!" I am not sure what you mean....DO YOU MEAN = Why am I wasting my time because you have already made up your mind? Well I thought that maybe if I could get a discussion going now that you would see the inherent folly with DLC 1st.- 3rd rate. See not only the pros but also the cons of what it will do to your game. Now I know that anything can be changed and reversed with time and patience. However there is nothing wrong with council, but then again if you have already pulled the trigger, then this can still serve a purpose. You are showing transparency and forming better relationship with your community. SO please don't think this is a waste of your time. I appreciate that you would speak with us about our concerns, unfounded or founded. "It will be an old style HMS Victory with proper bow figure and stern balconies that will Bring more PVP Bring more RVR Fund new ships and new content. And save time for people who have kids and families And it will win against snows, frigates, 3rd rates and 140 gun santisimas And it will sink to snows, frigates, 3rd rates and stronger ships. And it will be beautiful. " I have to admit, Victory is a compelling ship. I know i want it. I am sure it will be breathtaking to behold once it comes out. I am sure it will be a masterpiece! With that being said... it's going to have a huge impact on the crafting side of your game, it will beg the question of why should I even bother with it at all? [at least the ship crafting] It's going to pervade every part of your PvP and RvR. There will be fleets of these ships running around probably / possibly. Who will withstand such things? What will we do when a fleet of these monsters are attacking our crafting ports every time the vulnerability timer tics zero? What will we do when we have screening fleets filled with these? What will we do when these things patrol our home shores and attack our nations navy? Well I guess we will all buy one and shut our mouths and be happy right?

"You were ok as long as Herc & Requin DLC farmed the shallow, and you could farm the rest in crafted Christians ^^" Guess you missed the part where I said I didn't think the La Wreck was healthy for the game. Honestly on a small scale level 1 v 1 / small gang battles DLC really has less of an impact as far as I am concerned. I am more concerned with it on a global attrition scale. How will 1st rate / 2nd rate / 3 rate affect our port battles, or nation fleets. Edit: and or Economy / Crafting.

"I'd like a definition of winning in an mmo before people whine like this." Pay to winning in an mmo (my definition) = When the difference between paying for an in game advantage and playing the game vanilla is insurmountable therefore being forced to buy the content to compete on an reasonable level. I thought the purpose of the DLC is to make accessibility and time saving, if it gets to a level of strategic advantage, and circumvents built in game mechanics on a global scale, has it not over stepped its intention at that point? edit: PS: thanks for allowing me to use the word "insurmountable", I rarely get to use that in a sentence!

"They get their ship every 24 hours .. my fragile ego can handle that" If you had to fight a fleet of DLC ships attacking your crafting harbor every time it was vulnerable would your fragile ego handle that? At what point is it to much?

{"I just want to counter that by saying the biggest long term hurdle is not the ships, but the upgrades you put on them. Those are far more costly and harder to come by in a prolonged conflict than the actual ships. DLC ships, even if they are a 1st rate will not get around that fundamental setback. Therefore a fleet of DLC of 1st rates vs a fleet of crafted ships with upgrades will be at a disadvantage. Just like crafted ships with nothing on vs crafted with the goodies. Not to mention dlc port bonuses are so random more often than not you get terrible ones "} This is a fair point, however its not hard to slap mods onto a ship (any ships for that matter). You only need the mods in your warehouse storage. If you mean the sailing mods, well that is another story, they only come with sailing the ship. However on a long enough timeline, these mods are easily filled as well. Now while these two things are important to flesh out the ship and are more time intensive or resource connected they in the grand scheme of things only buff the ships capabilities or specialize the ship to a particular play-style. What really makes the most difference on a ship is its firepower capabilities (namely gun capacity), and is exactly how the ship rating system worked. To take your example if a fleet of DLC vs Crafted fought each other who would have the advantage/disadvantage? Well if I am in the DLC Ship fleet even if I only take out half of your fleet, I can still come back with the same amount tomorrow and every day after that. Eventually you will have lost your crafted and I will have lost only what mods I threw into them. That is attrition on an end game scale. Edit: Think PANTHER TANK vs T-34.....whch was better? irrelevant consider who can produce more than the other and you have the more important variable. When you take the manufacturing out of the resource game and put the power behind a pay wall it will have an affect on the game. I don't think in a good way. So I think the situation is way more delicate than people want to admit.

"Hopefully that casual that’s playing more because of DLC... expands their gameplay to more deeper into levels getting more involved in more parts of game, thus getting more people in the game... that’s good!!" What incentive do I have to expand my game-play when I can whip out my wal-let and pretty much ignore half the game-play? I don't think it encourages, I think it has an opposite affect. Hmmm, I am all for helping new players. I think most of the DLC is fine, I think it adds to the game in a reasonable way. I however fail to see how DLC at this level will be healthy for this game in the long run. Maybe short run, short term, but long term it will water down the last part of this game that remains deep, and immersive. Wow all this water adjectives in a a sailing game, I am seriously trying to remain serious here.

"Well I can just go fight and have fun." Well I mean there are plenty of DLC content to "just go fight and have fun". Does it need to be in our tier 1-3 rates? Trying to understand here your saying if you could buy the best ship in the game at the highest tier without any effort and go PvP against other ships where they had to work their butt off for it. You would be OK with that? What happens when they come out with the next big ship...better than your ship would you buy that ship too? Don't you think a person who invests resources in time have a spot in this game too? If you take away the point of the persistent world, then why even bother with it at all?

Quantity has a quality all its own - Stalin If the DLC ships had no other quality they would still be good as cannon fodder. In a game where attrition matters it has impact. At the end of the game Attrition has the most impact. That is simple logic. "Keep it up with the negativity and I’ll be forced to buy the Req too.." Negativity or Constructive critique? Regardless, its your money purchase what you please. Really has nothing to do with the money, I just want a healthy game that people will want to play. I think keeping the DLC out of the 1st - 3rd rates is important for the game, I am curious would you buy a DLC ship if it was the best ship in the game at the highest tier? At what point do you draw the line in the sand and say this is enough?

less effort than pushing a reclaim button? I don't know about that. However as the admin noted you get 1 tow per 24 hour. so every attempt after the first. So you capture 1 first rate, how ever long that takes, then tow it to the port you want to sail it, then every other attempt you would have to sail it, along with all the dangers that go with it. And same goes for the guy with the DLC ship after his first ship I guess he is back to even and having to do the same thing. Oh by the way the person with the DLC ship didn't have to use their tow so they get to use it for anything else they want, while the guy without DLC had to use his up.

If the DLC ships were sunk, what did you loose? 24 hours of downtime right? So you get to use those ships as throw away ships to soak the hits and everyone Wins with no real downside. That is how I see that. Maybe that is looking at it from the wrong way I don't know.

Also for the record I have played this game since way into alpha...have payed for 3 accounts in total. I have bought 4 DLC, flags , 2 x crafting upgrade, a frigate DLC , I give them all a big thumbs up. Am very happy with those. SO please don't think I am trying to cause problems...actually I am giving my humble opinion. I fully may be in the minority here, but this is how I feel and I wanted to talk about it in a reasonable fashion.

"I am not getting where are you leading to? Are you just on random things because you hate games with DLCs?" Whoa, hey now I think if you read, I even said that I thought some of the DLC has healthy reasons to be there. Please don't conclude that because I don't like the DLC in the 1-3 rates that I think all DLC is bad for the game. I think that there are bad DLC sometime and I think they can hurt the game. One of my examples was the La Wreck, I think it has balance issues, which is different than why I think 1-3 rate DLC is bad. Has nothing to do with balance. It has to do with keeping your high end play / content viable, and not watering it down. Part of a game is accomplishment and being able to just buy an end game ship is in dangerous territory I think. World of tanks for example has teir 10 tanks that are payed tanks, but they don't have port battles and a persistent world, so different games are different in implementation.

"You can capture any first rate you see in the world for FREE with almost no effort." How does this "FREE" first rate compare? Well its hard to compare a 1st rate with a 3rd rate in the first place. But one of these ships gets seasoned wood (your choice) and located in a port of your choosing. "murdered by a crafted Snow," Is that a crafted snow you made with seasoned wood you got from a DLC herc that you disassembled?

Hmmm, let me be more clear with my point. I understand why we have DLC in the game and how it can be healthy for the game. You mention some really good reasons. I am specifically talking about DLC in the top tier of ships 1st - 3rd rate. This is the biggest stage in the game, it is what allows the game to be viable on a competitive level. Its the one spot of this game that should remain healthy and shouldn't be watered down with a buy section. Do you think it will stop here? When do we get that 2nd rate DLC or even 1st Rate DLC? These are supposed to be what separates hard work put into the game from casual. It should be earned not given or purchased. There is plenty of room everywhere else for the DLC, why does it need to be here?

It is a trend that keeps seeping into the western market as a whole. But as you are seeing now its starting to over take this game as well. Now you need the newest DLC to compete and be a viable player, or you will be playing with such handicap that the game is not fun. I was alright with the DLC being in the lower rate ships, let me stress not really happy but tolerant. I mean the La Wreck is nothing more than a seal clubber that I don't feel was good for the game but I put up with it. BUT NOW, there is DLC in our 3rd rates, something that should never have been touched. 1st to 3rd rates should never have been touched with DLC ships. IT's way to much of a power spike for anyone who buys the DLC over someone who doesn't. Its to greedy. It bad for the game, I am not paying for it and I am sad that its here. I love this game, I want to see it do good, but not like this. Its to much and to far.