FenrirSombrer

Please see the OP. A poll has been added for ease of access to cast your votes and share your opinion. https://www.opinionstage.com/fenrirfurrien/uss-constitution-rating

The main Reason for the debate is as I just previously mentioned. Mechanically speaking Putting her in 4th Rate will have no effect on actual gameplay. It's simply a numerical representation. You keep the Battle rating the same, just Change her Rate to more accurately represent her. It has nothing to do with he ability to fight different rates. A Pirate Frigate can Fight and Sink a 1st rate, however that doesnt make the Pirate Frigate a 1st rate. Simply Put the Connie is a Heavy Frigate, 4th rate. Not a Ship of the Line 3rd rate.

Another small addition that I forgot to mention in the OP. Mechanically speaking the only *real* effect this will have in game, is the missions stating '4th rate or lower' will now let you use the constitution, and the USS united States. I feel that this won't stop people playing the Constitution in the way that she's currently played, or cause the Constitution's position in the game to change drastically (or even that noticably). Having her in the 4th rate slot is simply more historical accurate, and more accurate of her current play style, as that of a heavy frigate. (Sink what you can, run from what you cant)

The Napoleonic era Ship rating that I quoted lasted until after the war of 1812 (lasted until about 1815 I believe). The constitution is only able to Rival 3rd rates due to her speed, and is outgunned by every (to my knowledge) 3rd rate aside from her sister the USS United States. That said there are many 4th rates that have a heavier broadside than her as well, I believe only the Indefatigable has a smaller broadside than her in the 4th rates.

I will start this off by saying that I don't claim to know everything, as such I will do my best to include as many references as possible. The depth that Naval action allows players to field is phenomenal, and it encourages experimentation with ships/builds/playstyles and the like. One thing I would love to see is a more accurate implementation of some of the ships. This time I'm going to focus on the USS Constitution. Put Simply, the USS Constitution belongs in a 4th Rate slot, as opposed to a 3rd rate position. During the time of her service (and for a while before) Ships were given rating based on their guns. Rating systems Tend to reflect the same general Numbers https://www.historicnavalfiction.com/general-hnf-info/naval-facts/the-rating-system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rating_system_of_the_Royal_Navy Type Rate Guns Gun decks Ship of the line 1st Rate 100 to 120 3 2nd Rate 90 to 98 3 3rd Rate 64 to 80 2 4th Rate 48 to 60 2 Frigate 5th Rate 32 to 44 1 6th Rate 20 to 28 1 Sloop-of-war Unrated 16 to 18 1 Gun-brig or Cutter 6 to 14 1 Frigates of 4th rate have between 48 (or 50 depending on the rating system) and 60 Guns, with 2 gun decks. This matches the current iteration of the Constitution in game perfectly. Using in game deck terminology Her Lower Deck has 30 guns, her Middle Deck has 24 and she has 6 Chasers. This comes out to 60 Guns, fitting within the 4th rate designation. However. This is only based on her in game operational stats, and if you were to go based off of her 'rating' it could have been based on what she was designed with, as most ships had extra guns put on them after commission, outside of their 'rating' Below is an Excerpt from the Naval History and Heritage command, military website. > https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/ships/ships-of-sail/uss-constitution-americas-ship-of-state/history.html "The 44-gun USS CONSTITUTION, built in Boston, was launched on Oct. 21, 1797." Below is an Excerpt from the Wikipedia page. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution "Constitution was rated as a 44-gun frigate, but she often carried more than 50 guns at a time." Both cases show that she was a 44 gun Rated Ship, having two gun decks. This would put her into the low 4th rate territory/5th rate plus a gun deck. Obviously the Constitution (as well as most ships of the era) regularly carried a larger number of guns than 'rated'. Now the long boring part: While 5th rate would be damaging to the position of other 5th rates within the game, 4th rate would be a good fit, and in my opinion more accurate. Some 5th rate ships are still capable against the Constitution (Such as the Endymion, which historically fought against the USS President.) But most would struggle to fight her, and such was historical with the HMS Guerriere (rated at 38 guns, but carrying 49 at the time), and the HMS Java (rated at 38 guns). She was, historically, a 4th rate built around hunting 5th rates. All of this blathering comes together in the end for me to say this. The USS Constitution (and the United states by proxy) Belongs in the 4th Rate position, not the 3rd rate as she currently is. Please Participate in the Poll Below to share your thoughts. What rate should the USS Constitution, and the USS United States be in? https://www.opinionstage.com/fenrirfurrien/uss-constitution-rating Thank you for your time. Images sourced from https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/ships/ships-of-sail/uss-constitution-americas-ship-of-state/history.html