[Swedish Ships of the Line by af Chapman]

On 11/15/2019 at 11:44 PM, Wagram said:

Absolutely agree. Surely, the French very much regret that the "Implacable", ex-Duguay-Trouin, was destroyed. She would have been another great museum. The alleged reason for the destruction is known - no money left to preserve her. However, I wonder why they had to blow her up. No prudence here, in my opinion, and no goodwill. Would it not have been possible to just ballast her and leave her under water at some secure spot in order to have the option to recover her at a later time? Water may preserve wooden hulls quite well, as the example of Wasa demonstrates...

Indeed. It is painful to see the video of her undeserved fate. I will never understand the logic behind the way that she was discarded. We can all understand that post ww2 economies were indeed sluggish for the wartorn countries, but wouldn't she at least have survived to more favourable economic times by being placed in dry-dock and having regular paint oversights? Something i doubt would have taken extrordinary economic funding. I do wonder if HMS Wellesley would have shared the same fate had she not been bombed.

[Swedish Ships of the Line by af Chapman]

1 hour ago, LeBoiteux said:

@Archdouche That was just a joke.

af Chapman's plans are great. That's what matters about this thread.

🙂

 

I know, guess I'm butt hurt for our great failure almost 400 years on😉  (That is probably one of the best failures we have achieved considering what an awesome museum it all became)

[Swedish Ships of the Line by af Chapman]

11 minutes ago, Wagram said:

Are you talking about the original Santísima Trinidad - which was a 120-gun three decker ...

The plan is dated to 1777, according to Acerra and Mayer, BTW, not to 1836, as the Wiki "source" claims ...

... or about the converted ill-fated four-decker which participated in the battle of Trafalgar?

Anyway, Santísima Trinidad was a real "brick", as you call her, while "Kronan" remained just a chimaera ... 😉

I'm talking about the brick with four decks that some more wise Spanish naval officer's wanted to reclassify as an floating battery because of her outright horrendous sailing ...... "qualities".....

But you are absolutely right, we will never know what the Cronan would have been. Most likely the propositions for her would never have been considered because of cost reasons. More likely would be the Spiran or the Äpplet (1792). As an interesting note I have seen plans by chapman on the 48pndr guns. I do not at the time know if any were made for test, but they would have been powerful naval guns to be sure.

[Swedish Ships of the Line by af Chapman]

1 hour ago, Wagram said:

Sorry, maybe I'm a bit stupid, but wasn't it for topographical reasons that Sweden never built three-deckers? I mean, the Dutch never did it because Dutch waters were just too shallow, as far as I know ...

You are right in a way about that. Sweden built three-deckers, although the last of these were built in the early 18th century. The main disadvantage with the bigger ships being from a Swedish point of view high draught, something that is not ideal in the Swedish (and at the time Finnish) abundance of archipelagos. This is the reason that Wasa and the following nine ships (Including the "Wasa" ingame, actually "Kronprins Gustav Adolph" to be built to almost the same lines having a low draught. Some of the excellent features of this class was that it could navigate in shallows far better than any Russian SoL's. another not really related quality of the Wasas was their highly placed lower gundeck, giving it excelling combat capabilities in rough seas. After the Swedish-Russian war of 1788-1790 there was however calls from the Swedish navy for larger lineships to be able to take a more rigid place in the line of battle. Not that the navy was disappointed in the Wasas, but they recognized the need for larger SoL's to go into the line of battle against newer designs by traditional enemies like the russians and the danish since most of the combat in archipelagos was done with smaller ships like gunboats and Chapmans newly built archipelago frigates. And so came the design studies by Chapman and propositions on several new standard designs for new classes of Sol's. (Three-deckers are also freaking expensive compared to the more all round 74-80 3rd rates)

1 hour ago, LeBoiteux said:

Now I know why there's no Nobel Prize for mathematics 😉 :

Well, that big failure of naval engineering was based on people's at the time basic understanding of physics. Vasa (Or correct old swedish spelling "Wasa") was just built a bit to narrow by the original designer (who happened to be dutch, not pointing fingers..). The sister ship of Wasa (1628) was made a bit wider and actually were working ships, even if the heeling tendencies were never appreciated by their commanding officers, they served. As a fact, Wasa's sister the "Äpplet" was identified sunk as a block ship some week ago in the archipelagos around Stockholm.  But even though "Äpplet" was probably never a noteworthy sailor she survived for thirty years before being discarded.

[Swedish Ships of the Line by af Chapman]

4 hours ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

dear god, that kronan ship would be a beast :S and how could that possibly sail

Indeed it would. Chapman was a damn capable naval designer and the designs that were completed were up to expectations. If he could pull off a ship of that size we will never know, but I believe that he made the adoptions and design details needed for it to be possible. After all, he relied on mathematics for all his designs, and math does not usually fail in giving a pretty good result. It would truly be an awesome ship. And hopefully and likely have better sailing qualities than the brick with sails that is called Santisima Trinidad😉

[Swedish Ships of the Line by af Chapman]

Swedish Ships of the Line by af Chapman

 

About a year and a half ago I ordered high res scans of Chapman plans from the Swedish war archives. But because of costs for every single scan and very limited information of what every scan actually was I did not order more than a few on Chapman´s 94 gunner "Spiran". As it happens, as of now the archives has scanned most of the plans for the whole array of Chapman Projects regarding ships of the line. And although many midsections and deck-plans are still not scanned, I hope the ones that are available will get you attention for these wonderful ships.

Some of these ships have been seen before on the forums, but many of the plans are completely new. Many of these ships are in my opinion the most beautiful vessels of their respective class with their sleek lines as evidence of Chapman´s genius and they deserve to be seen by more ship enthusiasts than me. Most of these ships are never built projects by Chapman,

Only "Prince Adolph Fredrick", "Gustav III and Adolph Fredrick"  and the modified "Dristigheten" are  actually completed ships. (Confusing naming with two "Adolph Fredrick" I know...)

All pounds listed for guns are in Swedish pounds which is roughly 0.94 British pound and the measurements are in Swedish feet, which where one Swedish feet is roughly 0.97 British feet. All lengths is between perpendiculars. Enjoy!

 

Kronan/Cronan 110 Guns 1792

Length: 212 feet 8 inches

Beam:  56 feet

Draught: 23 feet 8 iches

30* 48pndr!!!

32* 36pndr

30* 24pndr

18* 12pndr

 https://imageshack.com/a/jJ0e/1

 

Spiran 94 Guns 1792

Length 202 feet

Beam: 53 feet 4 inches

Draught: 23 feet 8 inches

30* 42pndr

32* 30pndr

32* 18pndr

https://imageshack.com/a/UIte/1

 

Äpplet 80 Guns 1792

Length: 194 feet

Beam: 51 feet 5 inches

Draught: 23 feet

30* 42pndr

32* 24pndr

18* 12pndr

https://imageshack.com/a/2Qte/1

 

Unnamed 74 Gunner 1792

Length: 184 feet

Beam: 49 feet 8 inches

Draught:  22 feet

28* 36pndr

30* 24pndr

16* 12pndr

https://imageshack.com/a/uzte/1

 

Gustav III and Adolph Fredrick 74 Guns 1764

Length: 174 feet

Beam: 46 feet 8 inches

Draught: 21 feet 3 inches

26* 24pndr

28* 18pndr

20* 8pndr

https://imageshack.com/a/CE6e/1

 

Dristigheten 1805 Refit 74 Guns

Length: 167 feet

Beam: 46 feet

Draught: 21 and 11/12 feet

Wartime armament like ingame Wasa but extended top deck

https://imageshack.com/a/on6e/1

 

Unnamed 66 Gunner 1792

Length:  176 feet

Beam: 47 feet

Draught: 21 feet

26* 36pndr

28* 24pndr

12* 8pndr

https://imageshack.com/a/NY6e/1

 

Prins Adolph Fredrick 62 Guns 1762

Length: 169 feet

Beam: 45 feet 8 inches

Draught: 21 feet

24* 24pndr

26* 18pndr

12* 6pndr

https://imageshack.com/a/o56e/1

 

Unnamed 54 Gunner 1792

Length: ?

Beam: 44 feet

Draught: ?

Armament: ?

https://imageshack.com/a/Vc6e/1 

 

 

 

 

[Swedish 2nd rate "Spiran" by F.H Chapman]

Nice, is that also one of his projects or is it a actually built ship?

I´m stupid, of course you meant the unbuilt project ship...

[Swedish 2nd rate "Spiran" by F.H Chapman]

On 2017-06-01 at 4:41 PM, Riparian said:

Maybe we could hope for "Chapman 1790 Swedish fleet proposal" ship bundle! ... ;-)

(included: 66, 74, 80, 94 and 110 gun ships, not sure if all of these had even plans made)

The 110 gun ship, project name Kronan has complete plans in the swedish war archives.There also exists for example : 60 gun unnamed project, Äpplet 80 guns, Nyckeln 66 guns and the Spiran. These are all projects by Chapman that never were built, although i suspect the 60 gunner bear similarities to Wasa. The 110 gun, 94 gun, 80 gun, 66 gun all have complete plans including rigging.  For those interested they are all named after the swedish crown jewels, a naming tradition in sweden for larger naval ships. I´m planning on visiting the war archives next week and dig around a bit. As far as I know the late 74 gun project (not the Gustav III) by Chapman was built as the Carl XIII. There is however a 74 gunner drawn by Gilbert Sheldon (grandson of Francis Sheldon) in the Archives from 1780. 

[Swedish 2nd rate "Spiran" by F.H Chapman]

Hmm, indeed a beutiful ship. The name is not "Spiral" but Spiran, swedish for scepter. I have bought these plans too (bloody expensive) for the sake of having eyegasms at them. Chapman really knew how to build boats. I had hopes of someday modeling this ship when I have refined my skills. But it's truly awesome to see someone actually making this pracically unknown ship a reality. If you would be missing any of the plans (like the rigging) I would be happy to send them to you.