Remus
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Posts posted by Remus
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6 minutes ago, Yngvarr said:
so no, for us, Gold and Silver are not available in any meaningful quantity.
What is a 'meaningful quantity'?
The worst case is building Renommees, but if that's your game you should be collecting PvP marks hand over fist and can afford the Admiralty exchange. I suppose Constitutions are the next worse (are you really trying to make Constitutions?). A Constitution takes over 3200 LH to make - over 3 player-days - and requires just 26 silver, 26 gold and 13 coal. Can you really not get that from your nation's iron mines?
You could even run iron mines simply to harvest silver and gold the same way we used to run fir forests to harvest compass wood. Admittedly iron is very expensive to collect (stone is cheaper but it is far slower I think), but there is a profitable trade to be had selling iron fittings to the shop (though this uses valuable LH and in due course shops will become swamped and drop prices to 1). Then there is the PvP marks exchange for furnishings. Adding another 6.5 PvP marks to the 15 you need for the permit seems a little harsh, but not impossible.
I might be sounding a little callous - I would love to see international trade mechanisms in the game so enterprising players could sell rare but necessary resources to those with no access them - but I thought the main purpose of playing one of the small nations was because of the challenge. Why not rise to it, rather than stoop to complain?
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Silver and gold seem plentiful for the small quantities needed in ships. I have healthy stocks (admittedly I haven't yet made any ships which need furnishings) and I am always seeing it for sale in shops. Moderate quantities drop from iron mines (and stone and coal mines) so if someone is making guns there should be a supply. Having said that, I'd welcome the ability to cast gold and silver ingots from coins, even if it needed charcoal.
Coal is a problem. Enough drops from iron mines to be able to make gold and silver ingots, but not nowhere near enough for long guns and large carronades. I see a market for niche traders, mining coal and hauling it to regions which don't have it. But for international trade this would either have to be via a free town, or buyers putting up buy orders since I don't think foreign traders can place sell orders in a port. I think the game could do quite a bit with international trade in materials needed in game rather than useless yorkshire puddings (do the Dutch not have eggs, or is it milk or flour you lack?).
Teak distribution seems reasonable. It wasn't grown in the Americas at the time so is seeded in British ports. I'm not in a white oak region either, so yesterday I sailed all the way to Texas to buy some. You can do the same, though if I'd probably try a different seed port if I were Dutch!
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Updated to Build 11 - but with errors (see first paragraph below link)
I've put crafting data into a spreadsheet:
Naval Action Crafting Data 11.xlsx
This patch has changed the calculation for ship trim ingredients, with ballast (but possibly not all of it) now being moved to the main recipe. If someone cares to post blueprints for a couple of ships in every trim, I'll see if I can work out what the new calculations are and correct the spreadsheet.
Taxes have been added in build 11. I haven't incorporated this into the spreadsheet. Everything in this post below this point is unchanged for the last few updates.
It's quite basic; the only calculations are on the first 'Calculator' sheet; the rest is just data. I think most of it is self-explanatory, but I'll describe each sheet below. I've saved the file in Excel .xlsx format; the Calculator sheet almost certainly won't work with OpenOffice as I use Indirect functions. There is a way round this which I may incorporate in a future update, but really if you find this sort of thing useful just pick up a cheap copy of Office on ebay and spare yourself - and people like me - the pain of using OpenOffice and ensuring compatibility. If you use an old version of Excel and want a .xls copy, just ask.
I've got a semi-automatic way of updating this sheet from the API - it's too convoluted to share, but it does mean I should be able to keep up with patches and hottfixes as they are released.
The sheets are:
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Calculator. Primarily to calculate costs and how much you should charge for things, but it provides basic information on material requirements too.
Write in the yellow cells. The four at the top are for adding your own mark-ups. I currently use 100 gold per labour hour so this is how you'll find it set, but you can use whatever you like.
Make, Wood and Trim are all drop downs, and remember to type in the quantity you want to calculate. Wood and Trim are ignored if you aren't making a ship.
Labour Hours you know all about. Building Hours are the real life hours needed to harvest all the craftable resources in a level 1 building. Crafting costs are those tied up with blueprints, mostly raw material harvesting but some upgrades have blueprint costs as well. Purchase Costs are based on the purchased ingredients (eg sabicu logs) base prices. The price you actually have to pay in a shop may vary, but if you buy from a seed port it won't be much different from the base price. There is currently no provision to enter actual purchase costs for items, but I may add this later. Note: Permits are free so far as this sheet is concerned - please add whatever value you wish to give them manually. The Total Cost column apples the mark-ups and the total in red is for the whole quantity. I have now added 5% and 10% markup boxes in the price for 1 row to cover port listing fees (10% for ships, 5% for everything else).
The two tables below show the materials needed. The one on the left is a copy of the blueprint you see in the Craft tab in game, set for whatever quantity you want to calculate (which can be less than the blueprint quantity). The table on the right is the ultimate requirements in raw materials. Towards the bottom of these tables, the wood and trim materials are listed separately as I could not find an easy way to add them in with the main ingredients in a spreadsheet (in the database it is easy!)
Ignore the numbers in grey, they are to help collect the correct data. - Items. Weights and base prices. These are from the API. There is duplication and a number of obsolete items appear in this list (I have tried to cull them from later sheets). If you don't know what something is, well, I dare say neither do I.
- Crafting costs. This is what you see in the Calculator sheet without mark ups applied. For ships, it does not include wood and trim. I use this sheet as much as the calculator for a quick look up. All values are to make one of the item. As with the Calculator sheet, permits are not given any value.
- Wood and Trim Costs. Like the previous sheet but for ship woods and trims.
- Blueprints. These are actual blueprint values, straight from the API. Ingredients are on the next sheet, and woods and trims come later.
- Ingredients. These are for the blueprint quantity, exactly as you see in game and also comes straight from the API,
- Base Ingredients. This is going down through any lower level blueprints till you reach the base resources. These are per one, not per blueprint quantity.
- Wood and Trim Multipliers. Needed for the next sheet. Wood multiplier is in the API (though not written as such). Trim multiplier is the ship mass.
- Wood and Trim Ingredients. Multiply by the appropriate multiplier in the previous sheet, and if necessary round down. Trim ingredients aren't in the API at all, but I am pretty sure now these are correct. If someone has a first rate blueprint perhaps you can check.
- Wood and Trim Base Ingredients. Just like the Base Ingredients sheet.
- Buildings: You can work this one out, I am sure.
- Building Materials. This one too.
- Building Loot. This is from the API, but don't ask me how the last three columns are applied.
- Marks Exchange. From the API. I am not sure everything here is in game, and some are PvE server only
Comments and suggestions welcome. Enjoy.
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Calculator. Primarily to calculate costs and how much you should charge for things, but it provides basic information on material requirements too.
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4 minutes ago, Simon Cadete said:
The thing is, the majority of players that are playing this game are either returning players or regulars. The percentage of new players is very small. The majority shouldn't have to cater to the minority. When I was ranking up a year ago I tried all ships as soon as I could crew them. Leave it to the players to choose. There are too many restrictions as it is...
In the long term I very much hope new players will considerably outnumber the few hundred oldies we have right now, thoiugh I agree that even the mildly relaxed knowledge tree is too restrictive.
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Just now, ajffighter86 said:
Sink through the boarding interface? Because once a ship raises the white flag it no longer takes damage unless that was changed in the wipe patch.
Yes, it was changed in the wipe patch.
After boarding, press Esc to return to your ship. Then look at the other ship and press X. You now get the opportunity to take the other ship's cargo, also to capture it (player ships only) or sink it.
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5 minutes ago, ajffighter86 said:
Do you have to actually sink the ship?
Yes.
You get marks for kills and assists only, not for damage and not for capture. If the ship does not sink no one gets anything (except someone gets the ship, maybe the original owner keeps it). If no one caps a defeated ship I understand it gets credited as a kill (and an assist if appropriate) when the last player leaves the battle instance but I won't say for certain,
I cannot say how kills and assists are awarded, but if a ship is boarded and defeated and then sunk, it is the player who boarded who gets the kill, even if that is all he did and someone else brought the ship to the point of sinking.
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13 minutes ago, Thomas Sailaway said:
This. How many new players did Naval Action loose because of things like these?
I'm going to disagrtee with @maturin - the high numbers are because something new has finally happened in NA. My guess is it is not high because all of the changes are good.
I am convinced there is a problem, not with 1 dura, not with buying individual cannons, not with the relative costs of things, not because of there are no tows and teleports, but because the way to make money is so at odds with the ship combat / PvP gameplay that new players sign up for. Making money through trading isn't intuitive; it overly rewards the wealthy, and because server economies have to be balanced against the total amount of gold entering circulation, prices are high for those who can't access the gold seam.
To suggest the game is perfect and not listening to the OP and others like him is hiding your head in the sand.
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2 hours ago, qw569 said:
There is something wrong with Silver coins recipe.
Check ID 1008 and 431.
{"__type":"MegaChaka.Services.Items.RecipeTemplate, MegaChaka","Name":"Silver Coins","Id":1008,"PreventTeleport":false,"DropChanceReductionPerItem":0,"MaxStack":1,"ItemWeight":0.67,"BasePrice":232,{"__type":"MegaChaka.Services.Items.RecipeTemplate, MegaChaka","Name":"Silver Coins Blueprint","Id":431,"PreventTeleport":false,"DropChanceReductionPerItem":0,"MaxStack":1,"ItemWeight":0,"BasePrice":-1,"SellPrice":Sorry, what's the error?
It looks like 1008 is a duplicate (the item templates file abounds with them, thought they seem to be slowly getting culled) and doesn't feature anywhere else. Silver Coins is 428.
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3 hours ago, ajffighter86 said:
On the point of PVP marks, I'm having some confusion over what ships grant marks and which ones don't. Is there a thread for that info, because putting 'pvp marks' in search gives me about 10,000 irrelevant hits on that subject.
The following ships give PvP marks:
- Belle Poule
- Bellona
- Brig
- Mortar Brig
- Bucentaure
- Cerberus
- Constitution
- Cutter
- Essex
- Frigate
- Lynx
- Mercury
- NavyBrig
- Niagara
- St. Pavel
- Pickle
- Pirate Frigate
- Privateer
- Rattlesnake
- Rattlesnake Heavy
- Renommee
- Santisima
- Snow
- Surprise
- Traders Brig
- Traders Cutter
- Traders Lynx
- Traders Snow
- Trincomalee
- Victory
- 3rd Rate
- Ingermanland
- Le Gros Ventre
- Indiaman
- Santa Cecilia
- LOcean
- Agamemnon
- GunBoat
- Endymion
- Indefatigable
The following ships don't
- Basic Cutter
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Early access. Things will change. Better look out for them.
I don't know how it was two years ago - I only started playing in March. But teleport has always dumped me on OW, not in port, and even right outside my capital I would never trust it to be safe to the degree that I couldn't wait 2 minutes before going AFK.
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5 hours ago, Tenet said:
Then my captain can take a Measurement each Noon and Midnight with various tools to get an approximation of longitude or latitude, giving me the rough grid where my ship is located. This grid can be based on the quality of instruments.
What, exactly, would the captain do at midnight? I'm intrigued.
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2 hours ago, maturin said:
It would be functional, I agree. But would it be useful?
If you can see two different landmasses, then you already know where you are. No more precise location is necessary in this game, where there are no hidden shoals.
Yes. I've just sailed from Belize to KPR picking up a wreck on the way. I needed a course change en route, due north of one of the little Cays south of Jamaica. It is quite hard using the UI compass for this, but if I had a hand-bearing compass it would have been a doddle.
I doubt they used hand bearing compasses 200 years ago but would have sighted the island across the binnacle, but this feature isn't avaialble in game as the compass is fixed to ship orientation, not camera angle.
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4 hours ago, Ned Low said:
Smelter Structure could be handy but would require limestone. I like the idea. I agree I have couple hundreds sitting without use.
Of course we should be using limetone anyway. Sometimes I look back to the not-particularly complicated econ of PotBS (especially early PotBS before half the buildings disappeared) and realise how poor Naval Action crafting is by comparison.
37 minutes ago, Yngvarr said:For what purpose does it need limestone?
Could you explain that?
To smelt iron from iron ore. It is used as a flux to remove impurities. But it would not be needed for re-casting cannons into ingots, for example.
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Yes for coins.
No for guns (these are iron cannons; the value of the iron was a small part of the cost of the cannon, so they weren't recast in the way you say).
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Yes. Same as other ouposts (even though I don't have one and don't expect to get one)
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2 hours ago, Sansón Carrasco said:
How about a hand bearing compass we can use from the deck of our ship? And a sextant? That would be much cooler than anything on the map screen.
To use a sextant would be impossible because of the time acceleration. But you get my vote for suggesting a hand hearing compass.
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2 hours ago, admin said:
The angles are still valid (should be valid). So Privateer at 15 knots (angle 45) cannot chase constitution at 15 knots (angle 135)
but of course some speed mods could be a little bit unbalanced.
Surely it can. My guess is it is just as easy (or hard) to get a Privateer to 15 at 135 as it is to get a Constitution to 15 at 135.
You'd never do it the other way round though. The Privateer would always be able to run at 45 degrees (but maybe not if the Connie has accurate gunners
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It's mostly capitals and free towns which seed trade goods - raiding free towns?? I cannot really say I am much sold on the idea of raiding capitals. For small nations this is pretty much all they have.
What about shipbuilding woods?
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2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:
If your in a clan just trade the ships. That is what most of us been doing with the light ships. I'm sure we will prob do the same with the bigger ones. Trade it, go fleet grinding to unlock slots and than give it back to the owner or for the smaller ships to some one that hasn't unlocked that ship.
Works for solos too. I've just sold my Privateer by listing it in the shop. I pity the next guy: fir and crew space, it's horrible, but at least they'll get it cheap.
At least from now on all my grind ships I can make myself.
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Just a little anecdote:
I had a wreck about 2/5 of the way from Jamaica to the continental coast, roughly SSE from KPR, so no landmarks anywhere near and the trader tool only being of limited value. So i set the protractor exactly to the ferrule on the mast, which is as close as I can tell the actual site of a wreck.
Set sail, estimated the earliest time I could get there by the accelerated game clock and went AFK for a bit. Came back at about the right time (which was way off for distance, as it happened), checked the trader tool, KPR against Cartagena (Cabo de la Vega would have been more appropriate, but Cartagena is one of those stand out ports in the trader tool, having such a long name). Realised I still had a fair way to go. As I got close to what I reckoned the right point it got dark. I kept a good look out and saw nothing. In the morning I looked at the trader tool again, saw I must have overshot and turned back, keeping the red mark behind me now.
Doing the return journey in daylight the wreck was obvious, perhaps a mile off my course.
I forget who suggested the protractor, but thank you, and thank you devs for putting it in game and adding the red mark to the compass. With the trader tool it is all I need.
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Just now, admin said:
why?
Because it means the amount of gold entering the server is skewed by a very few players.
Part of the reason for the wipe was a fresh start to control inflation. An ecxellent idea which has been widely accepted by the players. Many of us (not me personally, for reasons stated in my post) are now mired in povery, frightened to lose ships (I'll count myself in that category for now), unwilling to take risks, avoiding rather than embracing PvP, struggling to pay for ships and guns and finding even successful combat barely covers repair and crew costs.
Slamz has posted what all of us who make money do, but he has also highlighted its flaws. If I have 10k then I can make about 10k in a trade run; if I pick the goods and ports well it will take me half an hour in a basic cutter. All well and good. If I have 100k and am a little more careful in my choice of ports I can make 100k; perhaps not in half an hour, but my own preferred trade run takes about 45 minutes in a TBrig and whatever combat class 7 I happen to have. But if I have a million I can make another million; by now I may be restricted to trading between capitals just to be able to get the quantities and profits, but on Global Brits and Dutch have an informal alliance so you'll see Indiamen making the journey between KPR and Willemstad. I haven't tried to worlk out the value per trip but I expect for some players it's over a million, practically risk free since you won't get attacked at the 'enemy' port at the other end.
There is nothing wrong with this in itself. I have no objection to individual players making money; I like to make money myself. But you will - at least I hope you, the Game Labs team will - be looking at the bigger picture. To control inflation you need to balance money entering the server with money leaving. There has to be more money entering for reasons I won't go into here, but the difference should not be too great because that is what leads to inflation. From what I can see, the expenditure side isn't too bad. Sure it may need some tweaks here and there but I've no real complaints. But on the supply side ...
On the supply side you have lots of players making about 10k an hour doing combat missions or OW PvE and stuggling to reach that next ship - Even a Pcikle costs about 50k with guns. But you also have a few players making over a million in a couple of hours, a 50:1 difference. Huge quantities of gold are entering the server and, although the forums are screaming with people complaining they have no money I can easily see you deciding to cut combat rewards (you recently put up NPC ship prices - that went down well, didn't it?) in an attempt to curb inflation ,when it isn't the poor players valiantly fighting that are causing inflationary pressures in the first place.
You might say, well, the 10lk and hour midshipman mission players can just go and follow Slamz' advice and make their millions too. But where would that leave us? Isn't that just promoting the server wealth generation that this post-wipe austerity is supposed to avoid?
I don't have access to the game data and I could be wrong, but please look at how much money is entering and leaving the servers, how, and by how many people. Also look at how much OW combat, how much OW PvP there is compared with times of similar population before the wipe was announced. My guess is there is now less OW activity, except for uncontested RvR grinds for conquest marks (and how many of the playerbase engage in this?). I thought the idea was to encourage OW PvP, but to my eyes the post wipe economy does the opposite.
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Factually, I agree with you, but I regard this as indicative of a broken economy.
Also I don't happen to like playing that particular game, so after a few days of it, following pretty much to the letter the same steps you did, I invested all my money in outposts, buidlings, a workshop and my first coal and iron crop, I made some cannons and listed them in my capital. They sold. With the profits I harvested more materials and made more cannons. They too sold. I could now upgrade the iron mine and build another. Before too long I was 2x level 2 iron, 1x level 2 coal and 1x level 1 coal and harvesting every last nugget (I knew I'd have to demolish the second coal mine in due course so wanted to stockpile). After about a week, I am now building ships. Only a level 1 shipyard so far but the level 2 will come and I'm burning through every LC I can get hold of (within reasonable cost - wrecks are my firend!).
I only charge a moderate mark up on my sales: 100 per LH which gives me 100k per day for what is now very little work, and I'm undercutting almost everyone else in the marketplace with plenty of choice of what to sell (I try not to compete with other sellers who price their goods reasonably, even if they are a little higher than what I would charge myself).
However, crafting is a money sink, not a money generator. I bring very little money into the server so my own rather smug approach only works because players like @Slamz go out and do the grinding for me. Thank you my friend
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36 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:
One point to keep in mind is that the starboard tack will always be favored because of the wind rotation. You can also watch your sails and when the square sails go flat and start to shiver, then it is time to tack.
Edit: This is sailing on the OW.
Usually I sail on port tack and follow the wind round, slowly sterring to port at whatever wind angle provides the jump from 10 or so knots to 18 or so knots (ymmv) if I can manage it, but sometimes I sit at the 0 to 10 jump, particulalrly on short journeys..
If I'm sailing off the wind and it catches up with me, I'll probably keep at the same angle as above but on startboard tack, steering slowly to port till my destination is dead upwind then I'll tack to the same angle on port and continue to follow the wind round till I'm back on course.
But often I'm AFK and just let the ship do its own thing
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This may have been posted before but I don't recall seeing it. Can the shop price be added to the contracts list? This is particualrly important when choosing cannons, comparing the price of mediums and longs.
In the screenshot, I can see the prices for Longs because they are all player made (1590 for the first 10, then 50 at 4100, and if I need more than that there are a further 22 for 4211) . But for Mediums I can only see the price of the player mades. If I am equiping a Privateer or Pickle I want 12. This is 24100 for longs, but how much for mediums? Probably more ... but how much more? I'd prefeer mediums but if they cost 30k I'd probably choose longs.
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Resource Imbalance
in Patch Feedback and General discussions
Posted
Hold on. I was off doing something else, but this phrase kept nagging me...
You are complaining about gold and silver but you sail Mercuries? The only 6th rate that needs gold and silver. Good God! If you've enough to waste on 6th rates then Bellonas (which require half the gold and silver of a Mercury) should be no problem.