Sir Lancelot Holland

It's possible, it may be that there was an issue with the launch so she was launched two days late. Ship launches do not always run smoothly and on several occasions ships have even sunk at launch.

Now this really is curious, It seems that the United Kingdom and Russia had a somewhat hot and cold relationship even back then: Relations 1553–1792[edit] Russian embassy in London, 1662 Old English Court in Moscow – headquarters of the Muscovy Company and residence of English ambassadors in the 17th century The Kingdom of England and Tsardom of Russia established relations in 1553 when English navigator Richard Chancellor arrived in Arkhangelsk – at which time Mary I ruled England and Ivan the Terrible ruled Russia. He returned to England and was sent back to Russia in 1555, the same year the Muscovy Company was established. The Muscovy Company held a monopoly over trade between England and Russia until 1698. Tsar Alexei was outraged by the execution of King Charles I of England in 1649, and expelled all English traders and residents from Russia in retaliation.[4] In 1697–1698 during the Grand Embassy of Peter I the Russian tsar visited England for three months. He improved relations and learned the best new technology especially regarding ships and navigation.[5] Russia depicted as a bear and Britain as a lion eying off an Afghan in the Great Game. The Kingdom of Great Britain (1707–1800) and later the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (1800–1922) had increasingly important ties with the Russian Empire (1721–1917), after Tsar Peter I brought Russia into European affairs and declared himself an emperor. From the 1720s Peter invited British engineers to Saint Petersburg, leading to the establishment of a small but commercially influential Anglo-Russian expatriate merchant community from 1730 to 1921. During the series of general European wars of the 18th century, the two empires found themselves as sometime allies and sometime enemies. The two states fought on the same side during War of the Austrian Succession(1740–48), but on opposite sides during Seven Years' War (1756–63), although did not at any time engage in the field. Ochakov issue[edit] Prime Minister William Pitt the Younger was alarmed at Russian expansion in Crimea in the 1780s at the expense of his Ottoman ally.[6] He tried to get Parliamentary support for reversing it. In peace talks with the Ottomans, Russia refused to return the key Ochakov fortress. Pitt wanted to threaten military retaliation. However Russia's ambassador Semyon Vorontsov organised Pitt's enemies and launched a public opinion campaign. Pitt won the vote so narrowly that he gave up and Vorontsov secured a renewal of the commercial treaty between Britain and Russia.[7][8] Relations: 1792–1917[edit] The outbreak of the French Revolution and its attendant wars temporarily united constitutionalist Britain and autocratic Russia in an ideological alliance against French republicanism. Britain and Russia attempted to halt the French but the failure of their joint invasion of the Netherlands in 1799 precipitated a change in attitudes. Britain occupied Malta, while the Emperor Paul I of Russia was Grand Master of the Knights Hospitaller. That led to the never-executed Indian March of Paul, which was a secret project of a planned allied Russo-French expedition against the British possessions in India. The two countries fought each other (albeit only with some very limited naval combat) during the Anglo-Russian War (1807–12), after which Britain and Russia became allies against Napoleon in the Napoleonic Wars. They both played major cooperative roles at the Congress of Vienna in 1814-1815. I cannot conceive of any reason why three French ships built allegedly at Valletta would be turned over to a nation with whom the UK may called upon to fight in short order, there clearly is no formal agreement in the works here. A more likely fit is that the painting is actually St Petersburg and the the ships were never French to begin with, but why would the location be claimed to be Valletta? It is clear that Emperor Paul I had eyes on Malta, and, Malta has been the Key to the central Mediterranean, just as Gibraltar is the key to Atlantic Ocean. However Holding Malta would not be of use for a campaign in India, not when the only way out is through the straits of Gibraltar. Perhaps there is a mis-translation somewhere, maybe the ships were built in Russia for the Knights Hospitalier hence the Russian and Maltese flags, in which case the building you refer to may well be the St.Petersberg Admiralty building.

From 1798 to 1800 Malta was in the hands of the French, In 1800 the Maltese rebelled against France, upon a request for assistance by the maltese Nelson fleet blockaded Malta forcing a surrender in 1800. The three ships were built by the French and were captured when Valletta fell, it is very probable that the ships were turned over to the Russians as part of a larger alliance deal. There was certainly animosity between Russia and France which ended with Napoleons disastrous 1812 Russian Campaign.

During the late 1940's and 50's many ships were disposed of at Bikini Atoll during the Atomic/nuclear bomb test phases, KMS Prinz Eugen, veteran of the Denmark Strait, and, later the Channel dash, was among them, Having survived two atomic bombs she was towed to Kwajalein where she finally capsized, her stern can still be seen above water there. In 1978 her port Propeller was removed from the wreck site to be placed as a naval memorial at Kiel.

To be fair HMS Implacable's general condition was far worse than that of HMS Victory, which even before WWII was the ceremonial office of C-in-C Home Fleet so she was kept looking in good condition. WWII had cost Great Britain a colossal amount of money and that all of the costs of lend/lease had yet to be paid, (which was still being paid off at the turn of the new Millennium) it is not really surprising that HM Govt did not want to spend a great deal of money restoring her. There is a huge difference in the costs of restoring a Frigate and a ship of the line, footfall for both Victory and Trincomalee is quite high and the money raised by visitors appears to be sufficient to make them economically viable, as part of the National Museum of the Royal Navy HMS Trincomalee, HMS Caroline, ( A C-class Light Cruiser and the last survivor from the Battle of Jutland) HMS/m Alliance and HMS Victory are partly sponsored by the Admiralty and partly public subscription in the form of a trust/registered charity (unlike the Clipper Cutty Sark which is a private venture, the tragic fire during her last refit ensures that she will be out of business for some time unless public subscription saves her), all four ships are either technically commissioned or have Admiralty dispensation to fly the White Ensign. HMS Belfast is not a part of this group, she is part of the Imperial War Museum, while no longer in commission she has dispensation from the Admiralty to continue flying her White Ensign.

I think Pirates should be what they actually were, Mostly they were men who did not care for the status quo, they valued their independence, yet could and did work together as the occasion demanded, often operating from bays or coves but able and willing to sell their illicit gains in Nassau and Port Royale to the extent, that, for a while, those ports were almost no go zones! No Pirate cared about the flag a ship wore, British, French, Spanish, or American, they were merely a source of income for them. Life was harsher for those of the brethren of the sea, they had their own code of honour which was ruthlessly enforced, equal to the enforcement of the Articles of War in all navy's of the day, duelling and double crossing was rife, just as it was in 'civilised society', Indeed, the real difference was every sail was a threat to them, sometimes even their own, every sail was an opportunity to make money, the money they made was, of course, free of any form of taxation as they they owed no allegiance to any nation, which is why they could not be permitted to successfully hold territory, They lived outside of the law, outside of what was deemed civilised, when caught, they could expect little by way of mercy, the only way to escape the hangman was to be female and with child as Anne Bonney and Mary Reade did, Mary Reade died in prison but Anne Bonney simply disappeared without trace she was never hanged, nor, is there any record of her death in prison, or, seek amnesty before you were caught as many did for a brief time. The terms of living as a Pirate does not make one hardcore or softcore, it makes you a Pirate, and, to be a Pirate, the game should permit you to live and act as such.

Projection of sea power was not the only consideration when assigning ships for deployment, 1st and 2nd rates were rarely seen outside of the Channel and Mediterranean fleets due to the huge manpower and economical costs of running them. For those reasons alone, when the Royal Navy conducted the round the world cruise in the 1930's they assigned HMS Repulse and HMS Hood, as battlecruisers, they demonstrated the power of 15" guns with the economy of a cruiser in terms of fuel and range. A similar cruise in 1800's would most likely have been assigned to a pair of 3rd rates, more likely just one with a pair of Frigates, the cost would have been roughly equal to sending HMS Victory alone even in times of peace. Then, as now, control of the sea lanes was a very expensive business, the assignment of ships reflected that cost and the value of the assignment to National interests. In game the clans have no formal budget provided by the nation, if they can afford to replace 1st rates then they will send them as the most powerful units available to them, if they cannot then either the battle will be somewhat one sided or the less powerful side will rely more on skill, tactics and or numbers. Either way it will be at the level that the clans involved can afford, and, sometimes, even the biggest ships, the best navy's are beaten by the underdog! I think on balance, the more realistic deployment of ships as you have outlined would actually benefit the game more in the long term.

While not a shanty in the strict sense of the term, Hearts of Oak is still the 'Regimental march' of the Canadian Defence Forces (Maritime)/ Forces Canadiennes Maritime, The Royal Australian Navy (Although, they may have changed that today) and the Royal Navy. The words are from an era when the wooden ships and iron men of the Royal Navy literally did rule the waves, and while 'Pax Britannica' has long faded into history, the song itself, lives on in three continents and is part of the cultural heritage of the men, women, of those services, and, the nations where it is played.

A Judy was a Lady of the night, after six to nine months at sea most unmarried (and more than a few married ones) Sailors availed themselves of their talents.

Generally speaking, where a large ship collides with a smaller ship the Captain of the smaller ship has made a mistake, it is the responsibility of overtaking ships to give way, and, smaller more maneuverable ships are more able to avoid collisions at sea where larger ships are involved, (the exception being that a steam ship gives way to a sailing ship) It may of course be that suction will pull a smaller ship in if they get close enough, see White Star v Admiralty 1912, it's why Replenishment at sea is a risky business. Mass and Velocity usually dictate the level of damage to both ships, with the smaller ship suffering more at higher speed, damage to sails and rigging is inevitable, as is a degree of flooding, (unless the speed was very low) more so with smaller ships. Any collision would have resulted in either an attempt at boarding, or, an attempt to disengage while damage was assessed and emergency repairs organised, it took time and manpower to patch under waterline damage, they had to use canvass over large holes or at least slow down to reduce water intake to a level where the pumps could cope and more effective repairs could be made. How do we employ this information in game without a lot of drama? There are mathematical formulae that are quite detailed and it is possible to determine if a ship will founder or not, Thomas Andrews, an Harland and Wolfe Engineer, worked out Titanic would float for about 2 and a half hours, his calculations were tragically accurate, Capt E J Smith was aware of that within an hour of the collision. The Captain of the Andrea Doria would have known much more quickly without such calculations, and, that it would be very fast. On balance, I think given that most Captains in game will lose ships on a regular basis in combat, loss, through collision, or, natural causes could be, simply, too much, even, if realistically, it would be the logical outcome of such a collision. Sometimes, in games, it is better to put aside cold hard reality, in favour of playability.

I too like the idea, particular;y where specialised shipbuilders or shipwrights are concerned, for this to be truly effective the RNG would have to go. Crafter's cannot be expected to design/craft ships in a specialised field if they hampered by random drops in the process, to build 4 or 5 ships to get what the customer wants is pure folly.

I wonder Sir, could this be an expectation issue? To the layman, war in the 'Age of Sail' has been made glamorous and popularised by movies over the years, so, it must come as something of a shock when a game comes along that is almost as hard as it actually was. Back in the day, it took years to rate as an AB, decades to climb the ladder from an 10 year old Midshipman to a Post Captain, most never got past Lieutenant, all in an environment where if nature, accident, or, combat did not kill or maim you, then, you were indeed fortunate. Here we are trying to learn in days or weeks what it took a lifetime to learn, even highly experienced Captains and Masters got things wrong, or, encountered something that their decades of training did not prepare them for. I think, I would say to anyone wanting to play Naval Action that you are getting into what is very close to a wartime experience, that your early experiences will be harsh, you will have to work hard to succeed even at a low level. If you are willing to accept that, then, when you reach the top of the tree you will have earned the privilege of sailing and fighting the Victory, L'Ocean, and, the Santissima de Trinidad, they were after all the ultimate reward for years of service in their respective Nations navy's, so very few Officers achieved that status, those who could successfully fight, and, win in them were the best their Nations could provide. I would advise them to learn the ropes on the Peacetime server, learn how to sail your ships there, how to trade and craft, learn how to maneuver them, how to fight them. Then when you believe you are ready try the war server, do not expect to win early on, there are too many combat veterans for you to reasonably expect to win on day one, join a clan, they will help you grow, translate what you've learned on the peacetime server to the harsh reality of the wartime server. You will face a wide variety of opponents, from Gentlemen who may beat you around, then, let you go due to your circumstances, others will tell you where you went wrong, if you ask them, some will even volunteer information, and, of course some will simply tear your ship apart and not blink an eye. It is a cruel arena, just as it was for those men who did this for real. I think if that is made clear in your publicity, then, you will get the players you want to provide for, that said, i think, you will find fewer players, but, they will be there for the challenges of the game, and, not for an arcade game for sailing ships, which I think is what you are looking for.

I would be shocked if they did not do so, perhaps, it may not be all 'doom and gloom', such fleets would be ideal for newer players and veterans alike, the newer guys could gain valuable experience, possibly under supervision, make some xp, Reals possibly some Dubloons as well, and the combat veterans could actually find more PVP while attempting to stop the enemy. There could also be RVR possibilities as well, a hostilities fleet coming in while everyone is fighting/covering the battles is possible, could raise hostility fairly fast with minimal opposition. It could provide needed content for all levels of the game simultaneously as long as there are sufficient players, and distances are not too great to travel in time. However we will not know until a few attempts have been made, it does not take strategists, or, tacticians to understand that while your enemy is engaged elsewhere they are vulnerable to covert raids or hostility missions, particularly, if the ports nearby hold value. Also, those who choose to avail themselves of distractions like these, should not be shocked, bitter, and salty of they find the host nation has rolled out the red carpet and greeted them warmly. There is after all little shortage of OW PVP around the 'lost fleet' scenarios, this would be a variation on a theme.

The cruises of the Pinguin, Alantis, Graf Spee, Scharnhorst, the U47 all single ship, operations, (while Scharnhorst was renowned for hunting with her sister ship Gneisenau until she was placed out of commission and deemed beyond repair, such was their fame, that they were usually referred to as Salmon and Gluckstein by the sailors who hunted them) all famous, all tied down more ships to hunt them down than they were actually worth. One Captain with one ship can cause so much chaos, (even Tirpitz, who spent most of her wartime career swinging around a buoy in the Fjords of Norway tied down the Home fleet for years, just as the Kaisers High Seas fleet did after Jutland, and, indeed, Villeneuves fleet at Toulouse and Cadiz) to the point where they needed to be hunted down as a matter of national survival, such is the nature of Naval warfare. The few Captains in game who emulate Admirals Marschall and Lutjens, Captains like Hans Langsdorf or Gunter Prien are without doubt Captains worthy of the title, Metatastic Disease, Alucard, both of whom I have faced and usually lose to, fully understand the role they undertake, Both accept that if you go into harms way alone there is the risk you will either be sunk or run out of the area by a herd of rather annoyed enemy sailors, they accept that risk, often, with remarkably more grace than some of their pursuers. There are other Captains who also sail solo and are generally successful, they pick their fights carefully, they'll stand and fight when they have to, or, simply out sail their opponents, for me, win, lose, or draw against them makes playing a worthwhile experience, a Captain can only do so much when he is outgunned, out maneuvered or just plain unlucky, sometimes, you'll get away with it, more often you cannot, so, all you can do is sell your ship for as high a price as you can get for her, and, even if they do not say so, you, will have earned a little respect for trying to stand your ground against the odds, or, even escaping such overwhelming odds after a running battle. In such circumstances it does not matter how good you are, the odds are the same whether it is your first, or, hundred and first battle, you will either survive or you will not, even the most skilled Captains, with the ultimate fighting ships can still lose a battle, after all, most the above Admirals and Captains died with their ships, they were all highly trained professionals with state of the art ships, and, very successful careers. Captain John Paul Jones said it best when he said 'give me a fast ship for I intend going into harms way' he did exactly that, just as Nelson believed 'any Captain who laid his ship alongside the enemy could do nothing wrong', he, also, did exactly that, neither Officer was wrong in their viewpoint. At the end of the day, if you do the best you can, with what you have, under the circumstances you face, you can do no more than that, and, if you can keep your good name, and the good name of your ship, clan, or nation, win, lose, or draw then you have done all any Captain worthy of that title can do.

There has to my knowledge been few 'even' fights in naval warfare, Denmark Strait was one, 2 v 2 numerically with the German navy fielding a battleship and a cruiser, against a battleship and a Battlecuiser. I suppose that one could argue that North Cape was a gank (Scharnhost v a Battleship and three cruisers) or was it just pure bad luck on the part of the Scharnhorst? Certainly the British wanted Scharnhorst sunk and to a degree she was 'set up', Bismark which was actively hunted by over 50 ships (including Force H from the Mediterranean Fleet, and convoys were stripped of their escorts as well) was eventually caught by 2 battleships and a cruiser, it is, I think, a question of degree, although, in Bismark's case, it was a cold blooded act of revenge for the loss of HMS Hood. Do we need 25 ships to take down a single ship? it is arguable that like Bismark, you may need a large number of ships to locate her, but, you really do not need them falling over each other trying to sink her! Only 2 or 3 ships are likely to have a clean shot at her, and, damage from friendly fire and collisions has to be made good, which, may curtail the chances of staying at sea longer to fight on before having to return to a home port for repairs that may not even be there. So what are reasonable odds when compared to a gank? 2 v 1 perhaps 3 v 1 at most should be able to deal with most ships, a good Captain can reduce the odds by good sailing and defensive fighting, anything above that is overkill. Anything greater than those odds is not necessary, the enemy can neither run nor fight with any prospect of escape or success, unless the ship is really tooled up and her Captain very confident in their abilities, and, players persistently on bad end of such engagements eventually just give up the game, why play at all when there is never the chance to actually win a battle? Perhaps Group commanders should simply put in what is required to do the job, and if the enemy has beaten them, then at least give the guy some respect for having done so, he earned his survival in that battle. In a live war sink the enemy at any price is the rule, in a game that rule will kill the game, better that players fight with reasonable odds than overkill and chain battles to make sure the enemy is sunk, after all, if a player has just beaten 2 or 3 ships, he has earned his freedom, to sink him immediately after that, knowing he may be virtually out of repairs does no one any credit, holds no enjoyment as the Captain has no way to credibly defend himself against what is a certain outcome. If, twenty minutes later, he is caught by another group that is just unfortunate for him, but at least he got away from the initial battle and had a fair chance of escape.

"you guys need to forget about nations and this shit. different clans, different interest. that is what RvR is." Every war that has ever been fought was fought because the 'interests' of one nation clashed with the 'interests' of another, every little tribal conflict was because one tribes 'interests' clashed with another tribes 'interests', Tribal or National the causation is identical. it is still true even when you substitute 'clan' for 'tribe' or 'nation'.

I lost a Heavy Rattlesnake and received just over 4.300 Reals, the process is automatic, complete with a nice telegram from the 'state' offering condolences and and how much the payout will be. I think it is actually a nice touch to offer insurance, especially, as Warships are never insured in real life, and while the payout is unlikely to cover to cover the full cost of a rebuild, nor the full cost if bought from crafters or shop, (I think the payment covers the cost of the hull but not cannons and additional fittings) it is good that at least some of the financial burden is lifted.

Yes ,indeed, the French had a good reputation for building ships that handled well to begin with, and pre-revolution her Captains and Admiralty were highly experienced, very capable officers, sadly the Terrors that followed the Revolution decimated the French Navy's Officer corps. Flamborough Head was a serious embarrassment for the Royal Navy, to lose a Frigate to what was, in effect, an overarmed merchant ship, manned by what the Admiralty would have considered to have been ill-trained, possibly, even amateur men (i think it more likely, in fact, that the crew of the Bonhomme Richard would mainly of been ex Royal Navy and almost certainly professional seamen) from what was at the time not even a recognised country by most European nations in British waters. As far as I am aware, an Act of Congress was enabled to design a U.S, Naval Ensign was passed that year, at the time (as is the case today) ships were required to fly a recognised ensign to enter European ports an without one the ex HMS Serapis would have been denied entry to European ports outside of France. What became known as The Serapis flag was the first recognised American Naval Ensign, formally recognised by the Nederlands permitting her entry to Dutch ports and formally recognising the United States of America as a Sovereign Nation. With the Serapis flag being included in the games flag DLC, it will, i hope, be seen not just as another flag, but for what it actually was, a new Naval Ensign, of a new country, worthy of respect by those who fight under and against it. In this respect the Battle of Flamborough Head was probably the most important naval battle in U.S. Naval history, for without it, America would not have been recognised as a legitimate country in Europe until much later, such was the effect that John Paul Jones, and, Benjamin Franklin, had on world history through the loss of both the Bonhomme Richard and the Serapis.

They would make a fine matched set, Serapis and Bonhomme Richard, which may be a selling point in it's own right. HMS Serapis went on to serve in the USN for a while, even, having her own ensign created so that she could enter Dutch ports leading to the Netherlands recognising the United States of America as a nation. The Serapis flag as it became known was probably one of, or, even the earliest US Navy ensign.

The wreck of Captain John Paul Jones's ship the USS Bonhomme Richard has been located, the ship, a gift from the French, had been involved in a hard fought battle off of Filey, Flamborough Head, on the Yorkshire coast with The 50 gun Frigate HMS Serapis. http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/wreckage-of-americas-first-ever-naval-vessel-discovered-off-coast-of-yorkshire-in-ultimate-find/ar-BBPehlM?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=UE12DHP Some 40 pieces of wreckage were found, from the ship which sank burning after U.S. ships entered the fight on September 23rd 1779, Outnumbered, Captain Richard Pearson struck his colours, surrendering the 5 year old Serapis to Captain John Paul Jones. It is to be hoped that the wreck site will become declared a war grave by the Admiralty Courts, and, that the grave of over 250 British and American sailors will be respected.

I'd have a look at the Alexander Kent/Douglas Reeman, Richard Bolitho Novels, it covers the the fictional career of Richard Bolitho from 1756-1815 including service at Aboukir Bay and Trafalgar. You may find a few ideas you can develope from there. https://www.douglasreeman.com/page10.html

Yeah, I know what you mean, we actually held a mock trials of Guy Fawkes and King Charles I in school, but that was many years ago. I do think though that such games, mock trials, and debate are healthy, it promotes independent thinking over dogma and that is truly a great thing.

Sounds a bit like the Board of inquiry and Admiralty court proceedings into the mystery of the Marie Celeste, long on supposition and short on facts. It should provide entertainment for those with inquiring minds though.

An interesting point raised by the site is the recycling of components due to ship redesign as in the use of the 15" 'X' gun turrets and guns of the Battlecruisers HMS Renown and HMS Repulse which were fitted to Monitors saving costs on their build, or, from ships paid off to scrap, or, too battle damaged to be salvaged, like, the main and secondary batteries of KMS Gneisenau which were used as shore gun batteries. The ability to keep parts that have been built then not used due to redesign, or, surplus to requirements due to battle damage to the ship, then, used on a later design could be an interesting construction point in the game.

It is, I think, also an tribute to those men of all nations who go to sea on boats, as a young man I maintained the Helos that hunted the boats with little or no thought of what those men had to endure, to those who sailed on, are sailing on, or will sail on submarines I say Salute, they truly earn(ed) the respect they command for doing a difficult, highly dangerous job with skill and courage.