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Redman29

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Posts posted by Redman29

  1. 19 minutes ago, Holm Hansen said:

    I'm fine with everything, but this:

    If Malabar Teak, in addition to the lower thickness bonus, were additional slower than African Teak, no one would choose Malabar Teak, when you have to invest large sums of money for the purchase of the wood.

    A few percent more hitpionts could hardly compensate that. The hp difference would have to be bigger then. But then it would go into the range of oak woods, which of course should not be the case.

    It would create a wood that nobody use, like Caguairan and Sabicu, before the big wood change.

    The speed difference right now is .4% between the two and both are selling in the 15-20k range. .4% by the way is less than .1 knots on most ships, something like .04 knots on a Buc for example. 

    Both these woods have the highest thickness values in game. Trust me, both are going to stay very valuable with or without the proposed buffs. 

    I should of clarified though. When I meant having Malabar Teak slower than African Teak I was thinking more in line with the current difference between the two. 

    Preferably, I believe the speed should be left alone in regards to the frame parts of the Teaks. And the super teaks really shouldn't be faster than 2% at most in my opinion. 

     

    • Like 1
  2. On 7/12/2020 at 7:50 AM, admin said:

    The philosophy is 
    Teak - ok
    Teak S - great 
    Rare teaks - super but rare

    I agree with that. Even so, I would consider Malabar Teak and African Teak super compared to Seasoned Teak even if they didn't have the same speed. 

    I also have concerns, as this allows the super teaks to be able to outclass several wood types, including some of the heavier woods.

    image.thumb.png.f34ef97df0eb85b431205c023d93f720.png

    These are the stats currently in game. Malabar Teak and African Teak on paper can take on most of these woods with no problem. The balance comes in with speed and hitpoints. Ships that are weaker than Malabar Teak and African Teak in terms of combination of hp and thickness (Danzig Oak, Oak (S), Teak (S), and Italian Larch) are faster, enabling them to disengage or control the engagement if they are the one's that initiated the engagement. Ships that are on par with Malabar Teak and African Teak in terms of hp and thickness (White Oak (S) and Sabicu (S)) have comparable speeds. Which means Malabar Teak and African Teak will have harder times controlling the terms of the engagement, enabling the ships with higher hp the possibility to get in close to negate the Teaks high thickness values. 

    image.thumb.png.6a0ee8a30b5c3cdcbec00a59090f05fc.png

    Now with the new stats. African Teak, Malabar Teak, Teak (S), and Danzig Oak have the best speed values of the ones listed above. Since they have the same speed values, Teak (S) will struggle to disengage from a Malabar Teak or African Teak ship in which it has little chance of winning a fight against. Danzig Oak is the least hit out of this as it still has the possibility to try and close the distance and make it's hp work in it's favor. The ones that really get hit hard are Oak (S), Italian Larch, White Oak (S), and Sabicu (S). Oak (S) and Italian Larch which will struggle in a fight against the super teaks no longer have the possibility to disengage, where as before they did. With White Oak (S) and Sabicu (S), which could fight the super teaks if they were able to close the distance and make their hp work will now struggle as the speed difference has gone from marginally similar to 3-3.8% faster. This means the super teaks will be able to control the distance, thereby ensuring that White Oak and Sabicu have no chance of being able to compete by closing the distance in which they can use their hp pool to their advantage. 

    African Teak and Malabar Teak were already extremely strong but with their speed it enabled other ships to somewhat compete or have a chance a competing or the very least to disengage. With their proposed speed, combined with their high thickness values and ok hp values then they will be able to control the range of almost every engagement and a ship that can close the distance to them won't have the hp to fight them. 

    That's the reason for my suggestion of their speed being staggered and I would honestly make Malabar Teak slower than African Teak if you choose to stagger them, but still keeping them within .5% difference of one another. 

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  3. 6 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

    Can't you think for yourself?

    Question is can you?

    You see the word meta and come on here to say death to meta. Have you bothered to compare the stats? What is getting nerfed or buffed? If you would bother reading what most of the people have wrote is that we have largely achieved balance across the board and there is no clear meta atm. However, with proposed thickness changes and speed changes to the teaks it will create a teak meta all over again. 

    • Like 7
  4. On 7/10/2020 at 9:27 AM, admin said:

    Timber update

     

    Changes in red.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mM1LEvwbt1tXOudiDUpTsT97wum_DvZDEs-S1YrkVBw/edit?pli=1#gid=1878153524

    Goals
    Streamline the stats
    Fix the inconsistencies (like teak slower than white oak),
    Slight buffs to riga fir and new england fir.
    Several other changes (including to acceleration - there will be a minor overall acceleration and speed fix next together with this timber stat change)

    Changes will be deployed next week. Please report on the issues you found with the new data.
    You can sort any column by using the green buttons near the names of the column. You can also switch on or off the types of wood, or names for your personal analysis.

    @admin In my opinion the current wood stats we had were fairly balanced with the exception of a few things as stated like White Oak Planking being faster than Teak. Some buffs were needed to some of these woods, such as Danzig Oak, Riga Fir, and New England Fir to warrant the minimum buy price these woods are now at. 

    However, I do disagree with several of the proposed changes as they unbalance stats that were fairly closed to being balanced across the board. 

    Teak, Malabar Teak, and African Teak should not have received a thickness buff and most definitely shouldn't be the same speed across the board. Malabar Teak and African Teak were already highly sought after woods before, with African Teak prices staying in the 15-20k range since it was released and Malabar will also being a similar range. These woods will still be highly sought after even without any proposed buffs and simply make teak redundant if you can get your hands on these as they have negligible draw backs compared to seasoned teak. I would suggest that for the frame parts, the thickness stay what it is currently and the speed is staggered with Teak (S) at 4.4%, Teak at 3.4%, Malabar Teak at 2.4% and then African Teak at 1.4%. The planking changes I am fine with as it solves the issue of White Oak being faster than teak, however I also suggest that the speed is scaled with Teak (S) at 2.8%, Teak at 2.2%, Malabar Teak at 1.8%, and African Teak at 1%. Again, this will give the teaks with huge amounts of thickness drawbacks when it comes to speed. 

    Sabicu, the speed should be left alone. Sabicu is already extremely underused and making it even slower will only further hurt it. 

    For most of us, certain buffs to the teaks aren't needed as they are viable as it is now and large buffs to their speed and thickness will make them borderline op even when compared to the heavier woods like Locust and Live Oak. Other than that, most of the changes I have no issues with unless I overlooked something as most are changing acceleration, speed, and repair across the board. 

    • Like 5
    • Thanks 1
  5. 21 hours ago, Archaos said:

    I do not see what is so epic about the trade run apart from if the whole fleet were alts. It says from one edge of the map to the other and indicates that one of the ports was Saint Georges town in Bermuda, but does not say where the final destination was. If the final destination was somewhere like Vera Cruz, then it would be epic as you would have sailed through some regularly sailed waters and run a high chance of interception. But if it was to somewhere like El Toco then the chances of being spotted are quite remote if you hug the Eastern map border all the way down.

    Anyway nice video and music, but it would have been epic to see you sailing through the Mona straits or past Cap Francis on your way to the destination not just out of sight of land.

    It was from Vera to Saint George's an back. Won't go too much into details, but figured I would add point A to point B for context.

    • Like 2
  6. On 6/13/2020 at 10:23 AM, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

    Also I wasn't citing what I ever said, but what I consistently read others writing with each change. Here on forum and on chat. So you should direct your reply to them who deplored their 'meta losses' and not to me.

    No it was directed at you. 

    You keep making subtle remarks about those of us who are complaining and even celebrating the fact that in the initial proposal our meta build would be nerfed. But again, I ask you did you bother to look at my data or even the data initially posted at the start of this thread? Do you consider Cag S / WO S, Oak S / WO S, Sabicu S / WO S or even WO S / WO S meta builds? Yeah, the meta builds would of been nerfed but so would almost every other build in the process. Ironically, the meta build LO S / WO S would of received less of a nerf compared to the non meta builds such as I listed above. 

    I can live with a 30% change to the characteristics of the current wood to make way for the new woods as has been proposed and can get behind that.

    But if you think a substantial nerf to the vast majority of ships across all builds was good for crafting then more power to you, and since you play on PVE so numbers don't matter as much there. But for me, having spent months collecting and crafting seasoned wood to build ships out of only for pretty much all of them to be nerfed and in several cases be rendered obsolete would of seen me leave the game as well as a lot of other crafters on the PVP server and numbers do matter there. 

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  7. 1 hour ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

    Very unsurprising, the usual complaining started, as it always starts with things being new, like there was a wave of complaining about port boni introduction ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!"), about seasoned woods introduction ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!") or when this or that DLC ship came ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!")...

    Did you look at the chart I posted at all?

    Port bonuses were in the game at release so no ships were made obsolete. Seasoned wood did not make ships obsolete, they made stats better than non seasoned but are still very much viable. DLC ships made no ships obsolete, as in most cases they are worst than crafted ships with random port bonuses, but the DLC spam in PvP gets old quick. 

    The issue here for most of us was the nerf to the current woods and not that these new woods would be better in some cases as we knew they would be. My biggest issue was the hp nerf to White Oak as almost every ship used in RVR has WO planking for the hp buff. And then to come out and say WO gives 0 hp is a drastic change and really does make ships obsolete. 

    image.png.213258a6c9a23390c67dd223fa4bd855.png

    Perfect example is WO S/ WO S build. The only reason people build that for Port Battles is for the hp buff and repair amount. I mean just look at those stats compared to a base L'Ocean. A lose of 6300 side hp is 26% reduction in hp total with only 3 additional thickness. You've decided to build an entire fleet of seasoned PB ships out of WO/WO wanting to trade thickness for hp which is a viable strategy. Your enemy has built a seasoned fleet out of LO/WO which is again a viable strategy trading speed and less hp for more thickness. Now WO (S) hp value has been reduced to 0 which means the nerf to your WO S/ WO S fleet is huge compared to the nerf to your enemy's fleet of LO S / WO S. 

    Most people save their seasoned PB ships for the defense of key ports for the protection of their crafting port from other players. You are now at a distinct disadvantage as your entire fleet of WO ships are now substantially worst compared to LO / WO ships when before they were not, increasing the chance of you losing your crafting port. 

    I have no problem to a slight nerf due to the rework of wood characteristics as we are getting additional positives/negatives that before were not in game.

    But removing the hp bonus from a wood in which the only reason someone would build a ship from that combo was due to the hp bonus, by definition makes that ship obsolete.

    • Like 7
    • Thanks 2
  8. 1 minute ago, Lizzo said:

    I agree with most of your points, but how is a seasoned Victory ever slower than a non seasoned L'Océan/Santi?

    Vic 65 base is slower than all other 1st rates. Santi and L'Ocean you can craft with sail 4 where Vic 65 is random. So they overall are around same speed if not slight faster even non seasoned unless you get lucky with Vic's Port bonuses.

    Margin is so low they are about same speed. So speed probably wasn't greatest example. 

  9. 15 minutes ago, Lizzo said:

    Despite the fact that current ships may no longer be the best, I am in favour of making the new special woods slightly better than the "ordinary" S-woods. If Live Oak (S) ships are still the most stable ones, everyone will still take their Victory 1765 to important harbour battles and sail the best ship. The motivation for specially built ships would be much higher, if e.g. Greenheart would be somewhat stronger than Live Oak (S). Then old ships would still be very good, but ambitious shipbuilders would have a new task again. Old Teak/White Oak ships should still be able to keep up, but I think it would be good if there were new, better builds so the meta changes a bit and there would be new goals for crafters.

     

    Making the new special woods better than the seasoned woods will only increase the gap between the player base, especially if they end up only dropping in the shop as the price for them will sky rocket meaning the richest people on the server will be the ones that are most capable of building ships from them.

    Also, if someone brings a full Victory 1765 fleet into an important port battle they most likely will lose. A non seasoned L'Ocean/Santi fleet will beat it 9 times out of 10 as the Victory lack dpm, is slower, and will lose when it comes to boarding. There's a reason the Buc is still the meta PB ship vs the Redoubt and Implac; even if they are not seasoned. 

    With slight tweaks to the currents stats as admin has suggested along with the news woods coming in with similar stats across the board it will lead to many many new combinations in which there isn't necessary this is better than that type of scenario. Especially given the tweaks to repair times and amount. 

    Especially if they open up planking to include LO, Cag, etc as there will be many many more combinations. 

    • Like 2
  10. 2 hours ago, admin said:

    The proposal is based on real wood hardness, gravity, elasticity, and yacht building books. 
    But from feedback it is obvious that the change should not be full, but should be partial
    Not 100% overhaul, but 

    • 30% of stats should change (adding new interesting realistic stats like repair time rebasing splinter damage based on bending strength)
    • 70% of stats should remain
    • New woods should follow the meta
    • Key stats currently valued by players should stay on the levels they were before.

    Awesome. Overall, I do enjoy a lot of the changes being proposed. I really like the variable repair based on wood as hopefully that will shift away from the repair meta. As well as the variable splinter damage based on wood. 

    Still don't quite understand the turn inertia. As in the heavier the wood the worst the turn rate is?

    Also, how and in what way will the new woods be available? I have found some for sell in ports by AI, but it seems to be random. 

    • Like 3
  11. 8 hours ago, admin said:

    Hello Captains

    Nothing can be more important to the naval architect than a thorough knowledge of the properties of the materials with which he has to deal with. 
    He can use this knowledge to his greatest advantage and thus produce a well proportioned ship of great speed or strength.

    The properties of timber will be first considered:

    • Bending and elasticity
      • will affect how masts hold together and splinter damage
    • Hardness 
      • will affect how hard the wood affecting thickness and time to repair
    • Weight and Gravity
      • will affect HP and speed/acceleration parameter and turn inertia.
    • Durability
      • Will affect repair amount
    • Cost
      • With much bigger quality comes bigger cost 
      • Distant woods will of course be more expensive.

    The base thickness of ships will slightly change as well, as well as acceleration (base accel will be slightly lowered)
    Caps for certain stats will be increased. Speed cap will slightly increase too, but light woods will be drastically softer.
     

    Table

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mM1LEvwbt1tXOudiDUpTsT97wum_DvZDEs-S1YrkVBw/edit#gid=1068541350

     

    We like it in general as it amplifies ship qualities and moves away from the standardized teak/white. Please provide feedback on the numbers and stats if you think we missed something.

    Couple of questions. 

    1. Is it correct that the only way to get hp bonus now for ships is through planking?

    2. As I also understand it, the repair amount is based on the Frame, correct? So say for example all ships now have a 20% base repair and under the new stats a LO (S) frame ship now has a base repair of 3%, correct?

    3. Also, will there be a chance for players to trade their current ships/upgrades in exchange for the resources and mods back? Or at least do a ship wipe so we can redeem the ships in woods that are relevant now with the white oak nerf?

    The reason I suggest this is the drastic nerf to White Oak. I understand the want to get away from the T/WO meta and support that but nerfing WO, especially the HP value, affects almost every RVR ship, as well as ships for PVE grinding in the game. It just doesn't nerf T/WO, but LO/WO, Cag/WO, O/WO, and especially WO/WO.

    I compiled a chart showing the differences between the more common RVR builds based on current stats and future stats and then comparing it to the base values of a L'Ocean. I understand thickness values will be adjusted but wanted to use it as an example.

    unknown.png

    Note: I understand the changes to repair, mast thickness, acceleration, splinter resistance, etc; but not really comparable from the old stats to new.

    Ships built for RVR are crafted to get a decent cross between hp and thickness. The changes to these builds nerf the hp across the board and in some instances the buffs are not worth the loss of hp. WO S/ WO S suffers the most from this as 3 thickness, and .5 knots is not worth losing 6300 side hp and 1800 structure. Teak S / WO S and Oak S / WO S also get hit hard with nerfs to both thickness and hp.

    This is compounded more due to the high costs associated with crafting seasoned ships. Ships that crafters and players have spent hundreds of RL hours and hundreds of millions of reals obtaining to have top of the line ships to sail only for them to be severely nerfed. 

    To craft a seasoned L'Ocean it costs around 22 Million, more if you have to buy the wood off of the open market. Buc's cost around 11 Million to craft, Implac's in the 10 Million range, even 5th rates run around 2 Million. To crafts ships in large numbers you have to rely on seasoned wood from privateer fleets, breaking up DLC ships, and crafting it to maximize efficiency. If you have to craft the ship strictly using labor hour contracts then you are looking at 307 per L'Ocean and 114 per Buc requiring a clan effort in producing that many labor hour contracts at an industrial rate. So now with this change, all our work, all our effort as crafters in crafting top of the line ships is wasted due to a change in the wood characteristics. I know solo players who since seasoned wood was introduced has been slowly crafting woods just to craft a single 1st rate and still aren't there yet. 

    I was somewhat looking forward to the new woods, but not if it meant making the ships I currently have sub par all over again. Not if it meant months upon months of crafting labor hour contracts, (hundred of thousands of coal, iron, provisions), seasoned wood, and spending hundred of millions is suddenly completely wasted. 

    • Like 9
    • Thanks 3
  12. 1 hour ago, Callaghan92 said:

    @Redman29 By looking at the table, it looks like it may be changing so that all woods are available as Planking and Frame, since all the woods have stats for both planking and frame?

    Well that's broken, considering that's how we avoided ironclad warships from sailing around. 

    I'm saving my formal response until I run the numbers and see how bad it is. Or good but with the new stats to WO, I'm not optimistic. 

    • Like 3
  13. 54 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said:

    Current maxed thickness meta is Live Oak(S)/White Oak(S) - 28% (with new stats +38%)
    Max thickness with new stats is Live Oak(S)/Locust(S) - 56%, twice amount of old highest number

    If we add to it Port bonuses and modules... Won't we get pure sailing Ironclad?

    Won't be possible. Locust (S) is Caguarian (S) and the second combo isn't allowed.

    Now, there will still be ironclad ships though out there.

    • Like 1
  14. @admin

    Will karma got into effect for battles a member of your nation starts?

    For example, you are a Russian player and see a Russian vs British battle and join. Do you get negative karma for the British. 

    Also, PZ should be exempt as this could kill PZ battles since those usually involve several players from different nations vs several players from different nations. 

    • Like 3
  15. 8 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

    @admin

    Reputation meter will change only with direct intent, correct ? Meaning only when joining -and- attacking player.

    Another question, and this is related to clan level.

    Small clans are easier to manage, so everyone is in the same page but a clan of 250 becomes harder.

    The new karma system means that there's a possibility of multiple sects in the same clan, some being enemies of a nation, others being friendly, according to karma values.

    So the question is, would it make sense that a clan has unified karma, all for one and one for all ?

     

    And kill trading. Some traders have to trade in enemy ports. If hostile AI is back on and is based on karma; can you imagine the complaints when traders get tagged out of the blue by an AI that are impossible to avoid on trade runs when that person has refrained from attacking that nation to keep his karma positive with that nation. 

    A player should be to one that controls his karma, not the clan. 

    • Like 2
  16. 8 minutes ago, Turbo Devil GG said:

    Agree! :)  or would be more great if the De ryter would be our 40 euro free dlc ;) 

    dont see the point why a trinco (if u can craft it anyway cheap )  is worth 40 euro anyway just my thoughts.

     

     

    No, not as a DLC. They listed it as being a permit ship and then back tracked on that. I want to be able to craft it because on average DLC ships have crap port bonuses. Having a regular event that drops the permit would be awesome. 

    If anything, maybe a Diana or Santa Cecilia as the free DLC rather than the Trinc. (Personally not the Diana as that ship is kinda op with it's gun loadout)

    Redoubtable and Vic spam is enough. 

    • Like 4
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