Brigand

Another option to force surrender is by increasing the risk of serious injury to you captain with increasing damage (apply some formula). If a player knows that from a certain point onward the chances of having his captain hospitalized (or killed if you want to go hardcore) are large, he may well choose to surrender and live to tell the tale. I think this would however only work if the attacker is forced to accept a surrender, otherwise it could well be that the joy of grieving another player would make them sink other players anyhow (I've played EVE, so I've very little hope for good sportsmanship). ~Brigand

Interseting books (online): The Elements and Practice of Rigging And Seamanship (1794) by David Steel Boy's Manual Of Seamanship And Gunnery (1871) by Staff-Commander C. Burney Text-Book of Seamanship (1891) by Commodore S.B. Luce Cheers, Brigand

Could I poke anyone for voting on the brigantine? second option from below

Unfortunately, your suggestion is a bit late. By now, the big question is: which 2 of the vessels previously suggested ships (see list) would you like to see on the shortlist? There is no gunboat fitting your description among the list of choices, my guess is that the Bomb ketch (Granado) is closest to what you would like? Cheers, Brigand

Hmm, difficult to pick just two... Ships that will be included into the game (Where I've marked the holes that seem to exist): HMS Victory (2,142 tons, 104 guns Ship) (90 guns) Third Rate Ship (74 guns) (60 guns) USS Constitution (1,576 tons, 44 guns, (Great) Frigate) (32 guns) HMS Surprise (350 tons, 24 guns, Corvette / 6th-rate frigate) Frigate (24 guns) (20 guns) Brig (16 guns) (12 guns Brigantine) Schooner (4 guns) Naval Cutter (? guns) The following ships have been suggested (sorted by year): Antelope (1535, 44-gun Galleass, sail + ores) Wasa (1627, 64-gun Ship) La Couronne (1636, 64-gun Ship) Prins Willem (1649, 32-gun Ship) De Zeven Provinciën (1665, 80-gun Ship) Wappen Von Hamburg (1669, 58-gun Ship) Berlin (1674, 16-gun Frigate) Mirage (1675, 84-gun Ship) HMS Neptune (1683, 90-gun Ship) HMS Peregrine (1686, 18-gun Ship) HMS Neptune (1692, 58-gun Ship) Willem Rex (1697, 74-gun Ship) HMS Sweep-Stakes (1708, 36-gun Ship) HMS Greyhound (1720, 20-gun Ship) Panteleymon-Victoria (1721, 66-gun Ship) Fleuron (1729, 64-gun Ship) Vilaine (1740, 12-gun Brigantine) French 8-pounder (1750, 24-gun Frigate) Santísima Trinidad (1751, 70-gun Galleon) Niger-class Frigates (1756, 32-gun Frigate) Granado (1756, 8-gun Bomb ketch + two 13-inch mortars) HMS Cerberus (1758, 28-gun Frigate) HMS Belona (1760, 74-gun Ship) HMS Britannia (1762, 100-gun Ship) HMS Victory (1765, 104-gun Ship) HMS Halifax (1765, 6-gun Jackass-brig) Santisima Trinidad (1769, 140-gun Ship) Iris (1776, 32-gun Frigate) Ranger (1777, 18-gun Naval sloop) HMS Ontario (1780, 22-gun Snow) HMS Africa (1781, 64-gun Ship) HMS Agamemnon (1781, 64-gun Ship) HMS Speedy (1782, 14 gun Brig) Téméraire-class (1782, 74-gun Ship) Venus (Bellona-class) (1783, 40-gun Frigate) Delft (1783, 56-gun Ship) HMS Vanguard (1787, 74-gun Ship) HMS Orion (1787, 74-gun Ship) HMS Colosus (1787, 74-gun Ship) HMS Captain (1787, 74-gun Ship) Vigilant (Baltimore Clipper) (1790, 12-gun Schooner) HMS Unicorn (1794, 32-gun Frigate) HMS Mars (1794, 74-gun Ship) HMS Pickle (1801, 10-gun Topsail schooner) French Ship Achille (1803, 74-gun Ship) Le Bucentaure (1803, 86-gun Ship) HMS Royal Sovereign (1805, 100-gun Ship) HMS Recruit (1806, 18-gun Brig-sloop) Niagara (1813, 20-gun Brig) HMS Beagle (1820, 10-gun Brig-sloop) Mercury (1820, 20-gun Brig-sloop) Dom Fernando II e Glória (1843, 50-gun Frigate) HMS Conqueror (1855, 78-gun Ship) HMS Revenge (1860, 91-gun, screw powered!) So, that leaves us with the choice of 54 vessels: 1 bomb ketch, 2 brigs, 3 brig-sloops, 1 brigantine, 8 frigates, 1 galleass, 1 galleon, 1 jackass-brig, 1 naval sloop, 2 (topsail) schooners, 32 ships and 1 snow. This wide selection of suggested vessels have been launched.between 1535 and 1860. I like ships in the period 1730 - 1760 most, but I would also like to see as large a variation in types of vessels. First vote would absolutely go the the brigantine Vilaine (who would have guessed). But I got the impression admin said it will be added to the game in spring? So (other than the Brigantine), based on period alone, I would pick HMS Greyhound, but HMS Ontario is a Snow, so it is a better choice. For the second choice I would like to see one of the Niger-class Frigates (HMS Stag for example) because it fits nicely between the USS Constitution and the HMS Surprise. Cheers, Brigand @Admin: I received your PM and will write you a response quickly.

The sailplan of the Baltimore clipper is a topsail schooner, and a late period one (1830 or later) at that if I'm not mistaken. I'm all for including boat crews and musketmen

Smuggling / Blockade running: Bringing goods and/or people asshore or picking them up. With shallow-draught ships you could be asked to pick up some govener or informer from a remote beach, victory if you can get your passenger to open sea without being caught by ships patrolling the general area. I could see blockade running happen when some fleet actively tries to blockade a port. A nice swift sailing schooner could try to slip past and into/out off the friendly port.

I just like drawing things, mostly as orthographic projections. I usually try to put in as much detail as I can get confirmed by historic sources. Having said that, it would be superb if this ship would collect enough votes for it to get included into Naval Action off course Cheers, Brigand

That's a big compliment! I've drawn that image myself. I've been researching this particular vessel for some time now and I'm slowly working my way to a complete set of building plans. I got interested in brigantines because of some paintings depicting French brigantines from this era, unfortunately, most of the time it is a secondary vessel on a painting depicting some imposing ship of war. The sources are many, but I believe it is accurate for the period (1740). The main sources for the hull lines are the droughts for several brigantines commissioned about the same time as the Vilaine (Dauphin, Lys and Marie Madeleine) on the west coast of France. The hull lines of those vessels match near enough. The finer details on the sail plan, including mast and sail dimensions, running rigging is mostly from ship models in musea, that survive from those days. I've cross referenced those with the rougher details on paintings and schematics drawings in books. The image I've posted here does not show all the rigging, most notably, the bunt- and clewlines are not depicted. So in summary, I'm sorry to disappoint you, there is no book title I can give you. Cheers, Brigand.

I'm with Johny Reb with regard to the need for smaller/lower tier ships! I'm not sure that a 97'2'' length of gundeck counts as small, the listed armament is certainly not overly heavy. What years was the Ranger active?

That would be nice; it would score very high on the immersion scale

I'm drawn between 1 and 4. Screenshot 1 is more pleasing to the eye, screenshot 4 is easier to get an overview. However, I'm not totally clear on what this view is meant to communicate; screenshots 2 and 3 do not show unit type, wheres 1 and 4 do? Cheers Brigand

A Merry Christmas to all!

Supplies add nice dynamics into the mix, it makes that you need to do more carefull planning and, as a result, in more rewarding successes (if you succeed). I would definately want to see limited ammunution implemented. But if you want the game to also sell as (just) 'another title' than it probably needs an unlimited option as well. Research on the game industry seems to indicate that easy games have a short lifespan, with a broad player base, while difficult (non-twitch based) games have a long lifespan, with a smaller player base. So, kenichinsfs suggestion is spot on if you ask me. Brigand

The icons only edition is, in my opinion, much clearer. Mostly so because the color of the icons already conveys they informtion you need. The flags icons add clutter and do not seem to add anything that the color did not already indicate?

I'm sorry if I said something that caused you to feel offended, english is not my primary language. I ask for sources because I've seen too many internet discussions where people -with the best intentions- wrote down what they thought was right, but than it later turned out that they were incomplete, basing themselfs on heresay, etc. I've read quite some books, I mostly focus on the 1670 - 1730 era. I've not come across any reference that states that the two types had explicit different purposes, neither have I came across a source that informs me about why they carried both types. But since it seems to have been common practice to carry both types, I deduced that they have different uses, hence my question. Regards, Brigand.

Hello, Thanks for your reply. I think it plausible to stuff whatever you have left into the cannons when need arises. However the British- and French Navy for example tried to equip their ships with the best loadouts available. They choose to equip their vessel of war whit both chain shot and bar shot. So I can only conclude that the two served different purposes; at least different enough to warrant two different types of shot. Bringand

Any credible sources for this? (otherwise it would just be speculation.)

Hello, Since there seems to be some people frequenting these forums who've actually read quite some history books related to naval battle, I thought I would ask a question I've had from a long time. What was the intended use and difference between chain- and bar shot? I've read times and again that they where both intended to damage the ships rigging, spars, yards and masts. Which is probably true... but: many ships had BOTH types aboard. For example, the vasa carried both the jointed bar shot and chain shot (with interlocking balls) There are many other examples. In fact it from what I've been able to find, most warships carried both one type of bar shot and one variation of the chain shot, besides solid shot and a variety of other unpleasant projectiles offcourse. So, if ships carried both types there must have been a difference? (Why else would you carry two different types?) So my big question has been for a long time: what is the difference between the two? Did anyone of you ever come across a reference to this? Regards, Brigand

A question: are there any plans for the addition of musket fire in this game? When reading about smaller engagements, it seems that the tide of battle could be heavily influenced by musketballs taking out the helmsman or a commanding officer. If I remember correctly, Piet Heyn even trained his men in the use muskets and had special boat crews that would be send out to under the cover of the billowing clouds of black powder and attempt to cause mayem to the unsuspecting crews of the ships they engaged. I think it would be really nice to have options like these, or at least have musketmen trying to take out key members of enemy ships. Cheers, Brigand

I like the creaking of the ships, but it makes me wander why I don't hear more of the sea. I take it the cannon sounds are supposed to be 'recorded' from the receiving side? otherwise I miss the thundering 'thumb' a lot. I've only heard a 1/2-pounder being fired, but that made a lot more sound. The main part of that sound was not heard though, but felt, something my computer speakers will surely not be able to reproduce. I asked about the (sound-wise) differences between blank shots and round shots and I was told that you can definately hear the difference. But since it is very diffucult to describe sounds in words, and I'm not even sure I got exactly what he meant, I'm not going to try to reproduce his explaination. Some things to keep in mind with most video clips of cannon fire is that: a] The sound recorded and played back from a youtube video has lost quality on several steps. Usually the microphone used in the first step cannot cope with the whole range of actual sounds produced by a cannon shot (the microphone designed to pick up human speach mostly), so they are not your best source for the real deal. b] The sound of a cannon fired at sea will differ a lot from one fired near solid objects or even just a sandy underground vs water, the reverberation effects the sounds a lot. Last note, the bell sound in the sound example sounded kinda dull, almost as if the bell was not free-hanging. Cheers, Brigand

I would like for this game to include a large choice in smaller ships, the true workhorses of the seas. I would especially love to see a nice brigantine; typically a bit smaller than a brig, but larger than a schooner. Brigantines where known for their versatility and good sailing characteristics. However, an image usually does more to inspire the mind than many words: A french brigantine of around 120 tons. Build as a packet boat converted to serve as a privateer, with twelve french 6-pounders and two Perriers à boîte. I can provide more detailed plans of the above vessel if anyone is interested. Cheers