[Trying to solve revenge fleet problem]

Some people just won't admit that they are PVE players and that is why they need revenge fleets. Revenge fleets are unrealistic and never happened in the age of sail. "we need them for gameplay purposes", yeah ok. PVE players need them.  

[Trying to solve revenge fleet problem]

Just now, elite92 said:

lol ... no way i can get any feedback on my suggestion from developers if u continue to post UR SUGGESTIONS....

and btw i dont think they will never revert the game at pre wipe state, in regards of battlescreens and such

Just pointing out that this system is way worse than the exit to BR screen. And no they won't because they are set on satisfying the PVE crowd.  

[Trying to solve revenge fleet problem]

Exit To Friendly Port BR screen is way less exploitable. Read this to get an idea.  

Quote

Revenge Fleet Cons

1. Unrealistic
2. Teleport from the otherside of the map
3. Sail to your battle location without being seen
4. Camp your battle location without being seen
5. Surround your whole location without being seen
6. Can keep you tied up for hours without having any real way to log off the game
7. Abuse speed by retagging so heavy ships are faster than light ones
8. Makes you escape more than 1 time, could be 5+ times
9. Punish players for PvP

Revenge Fleet Pros

1. Gives defender easy revenge
2. Do not need to worry about finding the enemy
3. Open world speed time compression gives you an advantage
4. Open world being a seperate instance gives you an advantage of invisibility so you can surround enemy without being seen and coordinate an attack
5. You can make your ships faster by retagging so slower ones can catch up to enemy speed ships

Now Pros and Cons of teleport to freindly port. Not suggesting to bring this back, just comparing. You decide which has less ways to abuse and is better for the game.

Exit To Freindy Port Pros

1. No more unrealistic escaping more than once, when you escape you escape
2. Repeat tagging is removed, you do not need to worry about having 5 hours to go out and look for 1 good PvP
3. Revenge fleet can no longer sit on your battle location by teleporting from the other side of the map
4. Revenge fleet can't surround you on open world anymore
5. Revenge fleet can no longer abuse speeds by tagging multiple times to make slower ships faster
6. Gives players a necessity of life mechanic to play this game so they can log off after a long fight
7. Players who try to create PvP and stir up enemy to make them come attack them in their waters will not be punished by having no way to escape
8. Teleport from free port and teleport to capital on OW removed, If you want to sail back to your own waters you will need to get out of the free port near enemy capital

Exit To Freindly Port Cons

1. Teleporting to exit freindly port is unrealistic but if you escape you escape, this simulates it. We also have teleport to national outposts so that is unrealistic too if you are making that argument.
2. Players can gank and teleport away but they would of escaped anyway by the time revenge fleets got there. Any revenge fleet would of found out about such a battle days later. Now if you attack enemy in their waters you know they will be coming to your doorstep to cause havoc for attacking them, possibly making them angry enough to take a region. This is how it should be.
3. Revenge ganks removed

I think we should of tested exit to freindly port with more people online and removing teleporting when tagging AI. You can't teleport to free port anymore and capital teleports were also removed. This changes a lot, but I know that ship has sailed, But this is just a comparison per say.

[Trying to solve revenge fleet problem]

Well I must say it is quite unfortunate we are going to be keeping these realistic "home defense fleets" or whatever you may call them. The mechanics support toxic behavior giving opponent no way to log off to return to real life. Can't say we didn't try. I will move on now, the mechanics in this game support trolling each other until you run out of real life time, I have never in my life seen a game do this.

[naval no action]

Well it's split us into 2 categories you are right.

1. One side thinks that teleporting half the map and revenge ganking is realistic, they would rather have easy revenge with the current system then going to enemy water to attack traders/warships or attacking a region to get revenge.. So many abuses with it, far more than exit to freindly port.
2. One side thinks that once you escape you escape. Which is how it was back then, Captains didn't need to escape twice. If exit to freindly port is a compromise to get around it but still simulates how ships would escape before a revenge fleet found out then so be it.

I just think we need a middle ground, this system is so bad right now.

[naval no action]

So I've done this list, if anything to add please do.

5 hours ago, Neptune said:

Revenge Fleet Cons

1. Unrealistic
2. Teleport from the otherside of the map
3. Sail to your battle location without being seen
4. Camp your battle location without being seen
5. Surround your whole location without being seen
6. Can keep you tied up for hours without having any real way to log off the game
7. Abuse speed by retagging so heavy ships are faster than light ones
8. Makes you escape more than 1 time, could be 5+ times
9. Punish players for PvP

Revenge Fleet Pros

1. Gives defender easy revenge
2. Do not need to worry about finding the enemy
3. Open world speed time compression gives you an advantage
4. Open world being a seperate instance gives you an advantage of invisibility so you can surround enemy without being seen and coordinate an attack
5. You can make your ships faster by retagging so slower ones can catch up to enemy speed ships

Now Pros and Cons of teleport to freindly port. Not suggesting to bring this back, just comparing. You decide which has less ways to abuse and is better for the game.

Exit To Freindy Port Pros

1. No more unrealistic escaping more than once, when you escape you escape
2. Repeat tagging is removed, you do not need to worry about having 5 hours to go out and look for 1 good PvP
3. Revenge fleet can no longer sit on your battle location by teleporting from the other side of the map
4. Revenge fleet can't surround you on open world anymore
5. Revenge fleet can no longer abuse speeds by tagging multiple times to make slower ships faster
6. Gives players a necessity of life mechanic to play this game so they can log off after a long fight
7. Players who try to create PvP and stir up enemy to make them come attack them in their waters will not be punished by having no way to escape
8. Teleport from free port and teleport to capital on OW removed, If you want to sail back to your own waters you will need to get out of the free port near enemy capital

Exit To Freindly Port Cons

1. Teleporting to exit freindly port is unrealistic but if you escape you escape, this simulates it. We also have teleport to national outposts so that is unrealistic too if you are making that argument.
2. Players can gank and teleport away but they would of escaped anyway by the time revenge fleets got there. Any revenge fleet would of found out about such a battle days later. Now if you attack enemy in their waters you know they will be coming to your doorstep to cause havoc for attacking them, possibly making them angry enough to take a region. This is how it should be.
3. Revenge ganks removed

I think we should of tested exit to freindly port with more people online and removing teleporting when tagging AI. You can't teleport to free port anymore and capital teleports were also removed. This changes a lot, but I know that ship has sailed, But this is just a comparison per say.

[naval no action]

A List of pros and cons for revenge fleets. How about someone makes a list of pros, feel free to add to cons.

Revenge Fleet Cons

1. Unrealistic
2. Teleport from the otherside of the map
3. Sail to your battle location without being seen
4. Camp your battle location without being seen
5. Surround your whole location without being seen
6. Can keep you tied up for hours without having any real way to log off the game
7. Abuse speed by retagging so heavy ships are faster than light ones
8. Makes you escape more than 1 time, could be 5+ times
9. Punish players for PvP

Revenge Fleet Pros

1. Gives defender easy revenge
2. Do not need to worry about finding the enemy
3. Open world speed time compression gives you an advantage
4. Open world being a seperate instance gives you an advantage of invisibility so you can surround enemy without being seen and coordinate an attack
5. You can make your ships faster by retagging so slower ones can catch up to enemy speed ships

Please tell me how defenders don't have everything handed to them on a silver platter?

Will most likely add to this.

[naval no action]

So I guess we should go play EVE since this is what the game is trying to be? I thought this was Naval Action not EVE. 

[naval no action]

1 minute ago, King of Crowns said:

only ship a solo player needs is a trinc or endy or surprise bud. bro do you even solo?

He's from SORRY, what do you expect? Probably hasn't done solo pvp once.

[naval no action]

NA should always be more than just a large clan based game. The game is at it's best when it welcomes all sizes of clans and solo players. I always laugh when big clan members act like they are so awesome and they are the centre of the universe... Like they are the only reason NA exists. pls come on, stop being so full of yourselves. There is a lot of solo players, just because all you do is PB and large group PvP doesn't mean they don't exist.

[naval no action]

6 minutes ago, Slamz said:

"I want to PvP in my frigate because it's tough and strong!"

"I keep losing my frigate to ganks because I can't escape battles!"

Well there's your problem.

Speed is king. Maybe the Frigate should not be your prime solo ship if you're trying to fight people in areas where ganker squads are liable to form up outside your battle and sit there unimpeded (because you are so far outside your team's areas that no friendlies will show up to challenge them).

Frigates are probably a fine defensive patrol boat because if you need help, your own team is right there. Someone camps your fight and your team comes out and shoves a cannon up their pooper.

But deep in enemy waters? Nope. You'll find me in a Renomee for that work. Maybe a Trinc. I'm sailing something that can run like hell if it needs to. It'll have speed mods on it too.

I Was talking about 5th rate frigates in general. I use only speed surprise and renomee. lol xd

But it is kind of lame that speed upgrades such as copper plating are only available from RNG PvE on a PVP server.

And well it doesn't matter if you are in a fast speed ship anyway if revenge fleet knows what they are doing, easy to counter. <3 mk

[naval no action]

Just now, monk33y said:

Sail around! Leave your Capitals greenzone!!  Explore the world..

Why leave your capital green zone when you can just revenge gank everyone who comes to your waters, take their ships and have no problems getting it back to port. Profit mate, think ahead! That's what smart players do.

[naval no action]

Good luck getting that captured ship with guns back to port. You can't escape a revenge fleet without a ship in your fleet. Everything you make from PvP is gone right after the  battle unless you are a PVE revenge fleet.

[naval no action]

3 minutes ago, Sansón Carrasco said:

Last night I captured two player Trader Brigs and sank one player-owned Lynx. I had to replace a handful of crew and pay maybe 1,000 gold for repairs total across all three victories. Between the cargoes and the ships, I earned enough to replace my Privateer and its cannons two times over.

Last week I capped a player Trader Brig with a Sealed Bottle. The net prize (ship, cargo, shipwreck) was worth upwards of 300,000 gold

Not everyone likes to hunt traders, they like to hunt warships. Frigates are usually the most common ships used in PvP, once you get there just try replacing one of those as easily when you aren't hunting traders. Try losing a frigate after every battle to a revenge gank that is impossible to escape. It adds up in a hurry.

[naval no action]

1 minute ago, Sansón Carrasco said:

With respect: people don't PVP because they're afraid to have to do PVE grinding to replace PVP losses.

What, then, are they doing while not PVPing?

PVE grinding.

It doesn't make sense.

You lose a ship in PvP and you need gold to replace it what are you going to do?

PvP pays poorly compared to trading and PVE. So what are you going to do in reality? Are you going to go back out and potentially lose another ship, make nothing off of it or are you going to play the safe game and do PVE missions? hmm? Yeah that's what I thought. PvP needs to be self sustaining, shouldn't need to rely on PVE or trading to keep doing PVP on PVP servers.

[naval no action]

The worst thing that can ever happen in a PvP game is when people start to develop the mindset that they are not going to PvP unless they are absolutely sure they are going to win. Because some don't want to go back to PVE grinding to get back in to PvP. I haven't had a problem with replacing ships yet, but I'm sure some have judging by the forum. People are less willing to fight when it costs so much to replace a ship. You see before we made a lot of gold from PvP, so you could sustain yourself from just doing PvP. You could once PvP knowing that if you lost a ship it wouldn't hurt so much and you could get right back into the action. Now people seem to only want to PvP when they are 100% sure they are going to win. This is just brutal, because It never use to be like that. Make it so you can sustain yourself just from PvPing. And I'm not talking 6-7th rates. PvP battles are always better when you know you can replace a ship, it is more fun and people are more willing to do even battles without having the mindset of 100% win or no PvP.

[Patch 10.2 - Changes to mission, crafting, ROE and other fixes]

The way I see it is pvp players pvp for fun not to grind marks. Marks promote ganking and I hate them. If people PvP for marks they are grinders not pvp players. @sveno   

[Patch 10.2 - Changes to mission, crafting, ROE and other fixes]

Just now, koltes said:

Your argument is based on fear that we will go back to what it was before. My argument is based on lets give it a shot and test with a new game mechanics that were introduced since.

It's not, I wish it was because I wouldn't even be on the forum right now. EU 1 has revenge fleets, believe me.

Simple thing we are asking for is a speed buff at all angles of wind so that it kind of counters revenge fleets sitting on top of your battle location. This way you can make some distance without being tagged so easily but the revenge fleet still has a chance of catching you if they do it right. The problem is you can just keep tagging over and over. People may be fine with that 1-2 times but after a while they will seriously get sick of it. I already am, and If we just had a speed boost upon leaving battle to make a bit of seperation it wouldn't be so bad. This would fix a lot.

[Patch 10.2 - Changes to mission, crafting, ROE and other fixes]

This seems to be turning into a discussion more about yourself than the problem that is being presented. Just because you play on a lower population server and don't experience the revenge fleet crap, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Quite laughable actually. It seems you think your personal experiences outweigh everyone else's.

[Patch 10.2 - Changes to mission, crafting, ROE and other fixes]

Just now, koltes said:

This is another example of an "arrogant prick" attitude who thinks that he knows it all because he logged first time into the game 2 years ago.
Calling someone an idiot and showing your lack of understanding of game mechanics all in one post is a classic example of this.

Yeah you go and try to gank me outside the battle instance blocking me on my best wind escape route and I will shake you off instantly by turning into the wind and after invisibility drops get to the right POS. You will have to beat the wind to get across my path which will be even worse in your case and position in the relation of the wind.

I didn't call anyone an idiot. I said a revenge fleet who tried to gank you and didn't know that would be idiots. And it was just a joke, you are taking this a bit too serious mate. Maybe time to step away from the forum for a bit.

[Patch 10.2 - Changes to mission, crafting, ROE and other fixes]

6 minutes ago, koltes said:

They can't get tagged again and again. If they are they need to learn game mechanics better. With the current game mechanics the outcome is the following:

If you are slower AND weaker than your enemy you will die. This is how it supposed to be.
If you are weaker but faster you will be able to run. This is how its supposed to be.
If you are faster AND stronger they will die. This is how its supposed to be.

That's all false unless you have a idiot revenge fleet trying to gank you. Because anyone with common sense knows what wind angle you will run at so as soon as you exit they will just start following you. And if they have a brain they will spread out ships at all angles of optimal wind and tag you.

It's actually super easy to get around speed ships, if you know how to.

[Patch 10.2 - Changes to mission, crafting, ROE and other fixes]

4 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

I'm not saying you have to have an alt to play the game. I'm saying that this is one way that there is to counter revenge fleets. the real way to counter revenge fleets is be in ships that cant be caught. ie surprise/ renomee it doesn't matter if they tag you 15x they cant catch you. once they realize that they cant they will stop tagging you. the problem is that if your running a surprise fleet or a renomee fleet your targets are limited. people want the best of both worlds. they want to be out there in bellonas or heavy frigates and not have to worry about being counter-ganked. and that's just not an option.

Who has time to be tagged 15 times in a row? So basically what your suggesting is if you don't have 5+ hours to look for PvP than don't bother? Because with these current mechanics you can be tagged on ow repeatedly. So you are targeting this game towards people who don't work or go to school?

I haven't seen anyone ask to be able to sail heavy frigates and line ships without being counterganked. What I have seen is a suggestion for a speed buff to make up for open world time compression and people camping on top of your battle. This would ease the repeat tagging.

[Patch 10.2 - Changes to mission, crafting, ROE and other fixes]

Koltes can I have whatever you are smoking? I need me some of that man, hook me up.

[Patch 10.2 - Changes to mission, crafting, ROE and other fixes]

2 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

if that's not how you want to play the game there are other ways to play the game and there are ways to solve the issue if it is the way you want to play the game. if you don't want to be chased by a revenge fleet stay with the large fleets within your nation. It is a sandbox and if you don't like the way one area of the sandbox looks then go to a different area.

Whatever man. Just because it's a sandbox doesn't mean that the revenge fleet b.s should be ignored. It doesn't make it any more acceptable. But judging by steam reviews it looks like we are in for a rocky road down the stretch.

Though I wish I had 10 hours of free time a day to spend on games but whatevs.

[Patch 10.2 - Changes to mission, crafting, ROE and other fixes]

3 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

its not the PVP players that will leave the game because its to hard. its the causal that gets ganked and cant get help due to game mechanics that will leave the game.

When players realize they can keep getting tagged again and again to a fleet they had no way of escaping, they will quit. The players who have 10+ hours a day to play won't mind it, but I'm sure that isn't many.