Isink A Lot
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Posts posted by Isink A Lot
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Step 1
Basic alliances that are coming this august we would like to share the plans and ideas for new improved RvR.
Step 2
Changes to port battles are briefly described in this post
http://forum.game-la...t-battle-set-up
Ports
Ports will change: Map will split into regions with regional capitals.
Nations will conquer regions (not individual ports)
This will also help a lot in hostility generation and will open road for significant trading/supply/demand improvements, with proper regional goods distribution.
The above quote is from Admin's post Development plans for conquest mechanics (RVR). Is this still planned? Is it coming with this map reset? There are many questions that have not been answered about all this new RvR from the many different post on each small part of it.
The above quote in red, what does this mean? I will use Sweden as examples in my Questions I have.
1. What does it take to "capture" a region?
2. Is it just the Regional Capital?
3. So for Sweden to take Bovenwinds do we only have to cap Oranjestad?
4. If this so then all Port Battles will be 1st rate affairs only?
5. Or do we have to cap a majority of the lesser ports before we can cap Oranjestad?
6. If so how many? Bovenwinds has 3 other ports all of which are deep water 4th rate PB's currently. And if this is the case then the quote in red is not really true because we are fighting over individual ports.
7. Do we get to use those ports and deny the use of them from our enemies before capping Oranjestad?
8. Are National Capitals capable?
9. Are noob capitals capable?
10. Do we still have 3 different port battle types? Regional Capitals = 1st rates, deep = 4th, & shallow?
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The idea on paper is pretty if I understand it correctly - noobs learning the ropes fighting other noobs but in practice you might as well rename it ''The pit'' where seasoned players are slaughtering noobs with the aid of BR system (blocking out any further reinforcements that fresh players would desperately need against those sealclubbers in twink ships)...
Right now people have to put in some effort and sail to enemy territory to sealclub, with this idea you provide a concentrated zone that requires minimal sailing since everything would be within hand's reach. The capital could actually become safer option to spawn in for newer players if that will be the case.
I hope I am wrong
Ding Ding we have a winner winner chicken diner! It's a MMO, people live to troll and grief new players, it's how they get their jollies on, it will happen and happen often I guarantee it! Just like the "Events" where to bring big PvP battles, in the Dev's minds and on paper it looks good, but us players will abuse it and screw it up to no ends. This is seal clubbing gift wrapped and delivered to your door step! All be over here chuckling to myself.
Now change the ROE to Character level of more than two or three in difference the younger character gets unlimited reinforcements then the seal might have a chance to get help from the older wiser seals and the clubber might just get clubbed.
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I would suggest this for US first rate http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7707-american-ship-collection-with-plans/?p=254006
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This is impossible to achieve with balance that will satisfy your demand for equality. Sweden and Denmark did not have any 1st rates contemporary to Victory / Santissima / Ocean. I don't know why admin listed Christian VII as a 1st rate as it was most definitely a 2nd rate of 90 guns. You have to reach back into 17th C. for 1st rates of 100+ guns for these nations, but these would necessarily have some inferior aspects compared to more modern ships (but I think they would be fun if treated realistically). US is problematic in the other direction, with the first successful design for a 1st Rate arising in a subsequent generation.
A perfect, mirror-like balance of rated ships across all nations is neither achievable, nor is it necessary given the mild production advantage offered by national goods. Anyways, the plan is already to produce various rated ships for various nations, so I don't know what the purpose of this thread really is other than to frame it in terms of "if we don't get these ships, and get them soon, the game is unfair."
p.s. WTF is General Pike listed as a 1st Rate? lol
1. Admin has already stated first rates to every nation, not me, the Dev! All I am doing is trying to put together a list of ships that we could vote on as those ships.
2. In a continuous online game there will be no such thing as "rare", over a period of time you will have 25 vs 25 first rates, the side that can replace those by having the one mat available to them at a whim will cause the other nation to lose. If you know you have no shot to "win" human nature will make it that those player will stop playing.
3. No where have I said that nation A can only sail nation A ship, if you can build nations B ship good for you.
4. Where in any post do "I demand equality"? This so call equality is your demand from your thinking not mine.
5. We already have ships with fudged loads to "balance" as you like to call it in game, what's your problem with adding more rare ships to the game?
6. Maybe they are going to up gun the Christian VII to "first rate stats", don't know don't care. Admin has stated it is a first rate, fact.
7. USS North Carolina is a stretch but no more than others.
8. I would prefer all 1st and 2nd where removed! But people love their 1st rates.
9. I just extended the list to 2nd's, that they are considering, to 3rd rates too, seamed reasonable.
As for the General Pike lol grabbed wrong link, fixed it now thanks.
All this is or was, was a chance to get a list of ships we would like to see in game for the rates per nation to hopefully vote on as the next ships to model. But to much negative BS from peeps with their own agenda for that I see. 15 post of BS i'm done.
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No. Eliminate all non-skill perks! get rid of all quirk-Perks!
Make Naval Action Real Again
hear hear! and mods to boot!
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The regional goods advantage is borderline meaningless, so no, I don't think there is a need to artificially balance every nation with artificially balanced ships of the same rate.
The simple extension of your logic is that not only must every nation have a unique ship of a given rate, but that these ships must all be perfectly balanced with no one design having an advantage over others.
Admin stated in the patch notes every nation will have it's own first rate (except US), go read it. And no I do not think they all have to be balanced any more or less than the 3 we have now.
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Man some of you don't read the patch note?
Experimental hot fix deployed today
3) Regional changes implemented for vessels as an experiment that will spread to other high ranked vessels- Victory - requires british national good to construct - removed until regions are introduced
- Santisima - requires spanish national goods to construct - removed until regions are introduced
- Ocean - requires french national goods to construct
- When introduced - Christian first rate will require Danish/Swedish national goods to construct
- When introduced - Dutch first rate will require Dutch national resources
- Second rates are under consideration
This is done as an experiment to see if regional changes will create more variety in large scale port battles, making national choices more interesting.
UPDATE (H. Darby): The Regional Changes for vessels will be rolled back in a hotfix tomorrow only for existing first rates (L'Ocean will still require national resources). Bear in mind that this change will be made in the future when trade routes are more correctly established/balanced and more ships are in the game. In the future, Exceptional ships will be rare, first rates will be rare and hard to build. Many vessels will require you to conduct economic warfare to be able to build them.
Exact post from Admin later in this thread:
Says right here each nation (except the US) gets their own first rate at some point! And 2nd rates are under consideration. Can you read Haratik?
I don't understand the negativity either. Guess some here think they are the only ones worth posting something.
Yep plenty of plans posted all over the place in the shipyard, that's the point of the thread, they are posted all over the place instead of one post that the dev's can draw from for first, second, and third rates by nation.
Can I get a mod to move this back to shipyard where it was posted and delete all these unnecessary post so we can get started on this list?
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No need to make a new thread, all you have to do is check the available list of plans for each nation in the pinned threads at the top of the shipyard thread list.
Barring that, typing "Ships of the line of <insert nation here>" in your web browser search bar will usually get you what you want.
If I understand your thread clearly, you're expecting each nation to have nation specific ships. The devs made it clear that's never going to happen. Spanish players will still get the Victory, British players will still get the Santissima, and American players can get the Ocean et cetera.
And I am saying that is BS now. Since the change to a regionally required economic good to make a first rate. All nations should have their own ship for rated ships. If you are a country without your own ship that you can use your own mats to build then you will be at a huge disadvantage to a country that can, and there is no way in changing that! There is no reason not to. Is there some magical not to exceed number of ships we can have? I am sure we can find a suitable ship for each nation.
Example lets say the Brits ally Spain and France, and now the rest of the nations who are at war with this alliance has no way to get the one mat need to make all 3 1st rates. Now let the flame wars on the Dev's being in full! It is a recipe for a disaster. And this idea only works if everyone has a ship they can build. IMHO.
And this post is about gathering all the ships posted into one spot that can be used to make a voting poll by the Dev's to which ships the player base wants to fill those rolls.
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I don't quite understand the purpose of your post in the shipyards, are you sure you're not in the wrong area?
I made this in the shipyard, why was it moved?
Purpose is to compile a list of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rate ship to fill the roles for each nation. So each nation has at least one of these types.
My list
1st rates
1. Britain - Victory
2. France - L'Ocean
3. Spain - Santismia
4. Dutch - ?
5. Danes - Christian VII
6. Sweden - Konung Karl http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4584-konung-karl-swedish-1st-rate-108-guns-1694/?p=88926
7. US - USS North Carolina http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7707-american-ship-collection-with-plans/?p=254006
2nd Rates
1. Britain - ?
2. France - Bucentaure
3. Spain - ?
4. Dutch - De Ruyter http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7306-player-ship-selection-1st-half-2016/?p=137543
5. Danes - ?
6. Sweden - ?
7. US - ?
3rd Rates
1. Britain - Bellona
2. France - Sceptre http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13896-battle-of-the-chesapeake-with-plans/?p=255631
3. Spain - Montanes http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2756-spanish-armadas-collection-with-plans/?p=56065
4. Dutch - Vrijheid http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/3330-vrijheid-dutch-3-rate-1782-with-plans/?p=66606
5. Danes - Wenden http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4563-wenden-danish-3-rate-1706-with-plans/?p=88426
6. Sweden - Adolph Fredrick http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7863-unknown-swedish-64-74-guns-3rd-rates-with-plans/?p=148815
7. US - America http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7707-american-ship-collection-with-plans/?p=164246
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With the new patch notes it is clear that the Dev's intend to make 1st, and maybe even 2 & 3rd rates require regional goods. With this change I would like to see every nation have there own ships for those rates. So lets get a list together of the missing ships.
1st rates
1. Britain - Victory
2. France - L'Ocean
3. Spain - Santismia
4. Dutch - ?
5. Danes - Christian VII per Admin's statement below.
6. Sweden - Christian VII per Admin's statement below.
7. US - ?
2nd Rates
1. Britain - ?
2. France - Bucentaure
3. Spain - ?
4. Dutch - ?
5. Danes - ?
6. Sweden - ?
7. US - ?
3rd Rates
1. Britain - Bellona
2. France - ?
3. Spain - ?
4. Dutch - ?
5. Danes - ?
6. Sweden - ?
7. US - ?
Dev's statement why I am making this post.
Experimental hot fix deployed today
3) Regional changes implemented for vessels as an experiment that will spread to other high ranked vessels- Victory - requires british national good to construct - removed until regions are introduced
- Santisima - requires spanish national goods to construct - removed until regions are introduced
- Ocean - requires french national goods to construct
- When introduced - Christian first rate will require Danish/Swedish national goods to construct
- When introduced - Dutch first rate will require Dutch national resources
- Second rates are under consideration
This is done as an experiment to see if regional changes will create more variety in large scale port battles, making national choices more interesting.
UPDATE (H. Darby): The Regional Changes for vessels will be rolled back in a hotfix tomorrow only for existing first rates (L'Ocean will still require national resources). Bear in mind that this change will be made in the future when trade routes are more correctly established/balanced and more ships are in the game. In the future, Exceptional ships will be rare, first rates will be rare and hard to build. Many vessels will require you to conduct economic warfare to be able to build them.
Exact post from Admin later in this thread:
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Experimental hot fix deployed today
1) Instance loading systems rework. Players will experience a lot less crashes on instance start.
2) Special event changes deployed - more information here: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16206-test-event-changes/
3) Regional changes implemented for vessels as an experiment that will spread to other high ranked vessels
- Victory - requires british national good to construct
- Santisima - requires spanish national goods to construct
- Ocean - requires french national goods to construct
- When introduced - Christian first rate will require Danish/Swedish national goods to construct
- When introduced - Dutch first rate will require Dutch national resources
- Second rates are under consideration
Noticed there is no US ship listed here. When and, not if, this happens what ship are we going to use? Now I do like the idea, if and only if every nations has there own ship to produce, but until that time this had to be the dumbest idea you all have come up with, really? I would also say do this with 2nd rates as well or even 3rd's, but what are you going to do with the Pavel and the generic 3rd? Add a Russian region? Hey maybe that not so hidden Island should be all Russian! haha. <--- See I can act like I am drunk on vodka also!
So to me it looks like you need 4 new 1st rates (US, Sweden, Dutch, Danes) and 6 new 2nd rates (US, Sweden, Dutch, Danes, Brits, Spain, a Pavel for everyone!) and 6 new 3rd rates (US, Sweden, Dutch, Danes, French, Spain, a 3rd rate for everyone!) molded asap! Get to working 3D dudes, I expect them in a month or two with this new "feature" HAHAHAHA! How about a vote for these ships like the players ship polls you have already done?
Pro tip, if you make a change with only half the needed stuff in it that change will fail, period. Don't do this ever, makes it look like you all have no idea what your doing.
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Yes, I know that. I mean that as well as alliances, some ward seem to have been declared. The US and Spain for example.
Technically you are at war with anyone who is not your Ally by game mechanics, but agreements can and will be made as they are now I am sure. I still think a third neutral state needs to exist but eh...
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Don't you also have to factor declared wars?
Only for round two and beyond. You can not have an ally that has your enemy as an ally. Let do that and see what it looks like.
Ally picks
Spain - picked France, France picked Denmark so no alliance for Spain
France - picked Denmark, Denmark picked France so they will have an alliance.
Brits - picked Dutch, Dutch picked Brits so they will have an alliance
Dutch - see Brit pick
Denmark - see France pick
Sweden - picked Denmark, Denmark picked France so no alliance
US - picked Brits, Brits picked Dutch so no alliance
Enemy Picks
Spain - picked US
France - picked Brits
Brits - picked France
Dutch - picked France
Denmark - picked Brits
Sweden - picked Brits
US - picked Spain
First round of voting alliances are Brit/Dutch and France/Danes all others are odd men out.
Round two:
Spain can pick anyone as ally as their enemy as no ally
France can not pick Dutch (allied with Brits), everyone else is game
Brits can not pick Denmark (allied with France), everyone else is game
Dutch can not pick Denmark (allied with France), everyone else is game
Sweden can not pick Dutch (allied with Brits), everyone else is game
US can pick anyone as ally as their enemy as no ally
I think that's right!
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I am a lone guy not implied in political and diplomacy stuff , just seeing what happens and taking note of it,
I have a question tho, seeing the current " grid " for Swedish votes i see that one of your selected enemies with most votes is France. Why aren't your friendly with Spain, France and Denmark at the same time ? Right now votes put you at war with Spain, France and Britain, allied with all others.
Shouldn't it be logical to create a block there so you can profit of Spain infrastructures and help them later if needed ? Following your own words that " would be a more healthy situation for the RvR on PVP 1 " while at the same time voting for your " geographical logical partner " when it comes to France too no ?.
Like i said i'm not into diplomacy stuff so maybe i am missing something obvious or more subtle in those votes here, so i just ask it here trying to understand.
Swedes in game always were good guys to fight along, always straight in them shoes, a bit surprised by those choices in grid.
Thanks
I hate to break it to some of you but if the votes stays as shown here Sweden will not have an ally. Both sides must be each others TOP pick, therefore Sweden who picked Denmark must have Denmark pick them which they haven't (they have picked France). So lets do a run down shall we.
Spain - picked France, France picked Denmark so no alliance for Spain
France - picked Denmark, Denmark picked France so they will have an alliance.
Brits - picked Dutch, Dutch picked Brits so they will have an alliance
Dutch - see Brit pick
Denmark - see France pick
Sweden - picked Denmark, Denmark picked France so no alliance
US - picked Brits, Brits picked Dutch so no alliance
First round of voting alliances are Brit/Dutch and France/Danes all others are odd men out. Second round will start to form the "blocks".
What this does show however is National populations or at least higher level captains to the effect of how many players are interested in RvR for each nation. Which is as follows: counting ally votes only!
1. Great Britain 3,162 votes
2. Dutch 1,309 votes
3. France 1,302 votes
4. Denmark 1,008 votes
5. US 896 votes
6. Spain 828 votes
7. Sweden 782 votes
We need fewer Brit Captains! lol
I hope someone gets a screen cap of the finial voting so we can see number of votes each nation had!
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I will try to explain last time because talking to people repeating the same things over and over again is exhausting and I have better things to do.
- USA right now is not interesting.
Having an ally or an enemy whose main base of players is in another time zone for me is useless. I´m not interested in have advantage in european primetime or have to stay awake till four o´clock in the night to have an interesting battle. Erickilla, this is boring to me and in general for all the spanish players. And it is not intended to be an offense.
If this is true then why did I see you up at 4 am your time trying to take US ports? If your not interested in being up at 4 am why are you attacking other nations ports at that time? Here is a clue for you, don't try and take ports that require you to be up at 4 am, take ports that are open at your time of play! Not hard. Are you saying none of the other nations have interesting battles at your prime? So you have to be up at 4 am to have interesting battles against the US, but main time zone not in yours is useless? This is why I left Spain 2 months ago, no logic to there nation at all.
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It's too much to read sorry but the idea of 24 h port battles would only help the biggest factions and hardcore gamers.
Small faction or factions with less hardcore gamers wouldn't stand a chance. And you forget the reward/loot system. Which needs a major rework in my opinion.
The lengh is not the problem. Just how it starts. I am still for a mechanic like in PotBS. It was simple it was good and it worked for everyone and it was a pool for everyone who wants to do PvP and maybe there would be less ganking at capitals.
What if the 24 hours was busted up into 12 separate battles? A defender only needs to win 6 of those, an attacker needs to win 7? That's 1/2 a day of coverage if you win them all. Now throw in allies to help you with your battles, and pirate clans as hired mercs and you could cover the entire 12 battles if you make the right political deals. This will require the "Pirate Nation" to have the ability make make contracts for a port offence or defense to be paid by the nation that hires them. And if done by clan or group you could have Pirates on both sides of the battle! Of course I have the idea of Pirates becoming strictly pvper's, no crafting, no trading, but that's a separate post.
PotBS way sucked also. I can't tell you how many "flips" I helped get started only for them to be finished in the middle of the night, and then the battle happen before I got off work, effectually excluding me from said port battles I helped create. Timers of any kind will screw all players over one way or another. It is a global game and needs global mechanics if this is to last or players will figure out how to set the times to when it is the easiest for them to win (read least resistance). Then get bored and stop playing.
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I can only add to that with the hostility generation is already a 24/7 mechanic.
But really I expect the different conflict-zones to become centered around one of the 10 time-slots. (There is that magic number 10 again.
)You know that at the end there is going to be a port battle and you want that port battle to be in your favorite slot. Yes, it is a bit gimmicky, but time-zones are (I'm afraid) a RL interference.
So everybody will be focused on getting his time slot, both in terms of offense and defense.
The other thing is that Nations may not be capable of raising fleets 24/7. We'll have to see how this plays out initially.
http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14816-update-on-the-port-battle-set-up/?p=275044
With multi battle does it matter if you can raise a fleet 24 hours? What I proposed will make each PB 12 battles long, as a defender you only need to win 6 of those (tie goes to defender), as an attacker you need to win 7 (attackers should have to win more, no?). So if you can cover 1/2 a day with you pop and or ally/hired guns (hired guns are pirates clans) you can still win even if the rest of the battles are empty. But with this setup you just might find people spreading out to other nations to get fights instead of certain time zones having a couple of nations with all the pop.
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because people want resolution - action must bring results based on their actions (not on somebody else's actions)
If the battle lasts for several days not everyone has 48 hours to be online.
If i fought well and won the port battle then someone should not be able to lose my result.
I disagree.
1. It was not yours and yours alone action that resulted in the fight to begin with!
2. A national effort to create the PB should mean a national effort to win it. (not on somebody else's actions to lose it)
3. If I fought well to get the PB and some other player loses my port because it didn't happen in my play time I will be extremely more upset about it than if my nation lost it as a whole.
The very reasons you list as to why not have it a national effort are the same reasons not to leave it up to just 25 players multiplied by the number of players that help create it in the first place!
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Wouldn't that be the same as a neutral?
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May I suggest that if a nation is wiped out, you can start as that nation from a free port and pull the flag from that free port to try and re-take the nations capital. This will allow people who want a challenge of rebuilding a nation the option to go that nation and try and recreate that nations foothold.
Example: Spain is wiped off the map, anyone who starts as Spain will start at Key West with the option to pull the flag from Key West for La Habana (Spain's capital). No other flags can be pulled from the free port and the flag can only be pulled if La Habana is occupied from a nation other than Spain.
Um with the new PB system there is no "flag" to pull.
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Looks to me like "I" is freetowns, "N" is Neutral (capture-able). No idea what the white circles would be.
EDIT: Red circles are obviously capitals, seems like white circles are towns that may be changing faction? E.G Sunbury is listed as US on this map?
Then look at the Costa del Fuego area. Cabo Canaveral, San Sebastain, Jobe, & Rio Seco are all freetowns with only Ays (regional capital) & Cayo Bisayno as Spain and therefore capable? I think the (I) is something else.
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Why do port Battles have to be in a "time slot"? Think out of the box. 48 hours after hostilities hits 100% the port opens up for battles, port battles last 24 hours! Each battle happens in a 1 1/2 hour time frame with 30 min. delay for the next one. All time zones are covered this way. Battles are decided by which side does the most damage for that battle (promotes fighting), most battles that are won wins the port. Remember allies and or hired pirates can enter you port battles to help cover low pop times for your nation. Discuss!
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Interesting.
Does the (I) equal freetowns or the (N) or the big white circles? If (I) or (N) is not freetowns, whats the difference in them?
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The questions I have which have not been answered is are these:
1. Does the ally of your ally become your ally?
2. Does the enemy of your ally become your enemy?
3. What can you do against nations that are neither your ally or your declared enemy, for example, can you enter their ports? Can you auto enter their battles? Can you buy flags against them? Open world pvp only? What are those limits?
Can all the rule sets for how a nation votes be listed in regards to how all the other nations vote so we can see if we can poke holes in it?
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Important - Final map. Player action required for both PVE and PVP servers.
in News Announcements & Important discussions
Posted
Nope they have said they may, not that they will be. Hence the question.