Sir. Cunningham Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 With the Open World in development and the completetion of the game probably being within the next 12-16 months, I just wanted to point out that it's absolutely crucial that this game keeps the arena mode once the Open World is finished, so that people who don't have tons of time to invest in this game pr. week will always have the opportunity to sail what'ever ship they wish in arena matches against other players such as we have it now. I know that one of the big drawing factors of this game for many has been (and still is) the opportunity to sail the big ships of the line, thus I find it very important this is not taken away Esp. considering that it will provide valuable training for the few lucky captains who actually manage to get that elusive admiralty permit to sail one of these big ships in the open world PS: I'm assuming this is all Game Labs plan as well, however I just couldn't help but make sure 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelis Vrolijk Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I don't think the game will be done in 12-16 months. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes at least another full two years for it to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 While good in Theory you may end up killing the Game if even 40% of the players are sitting in Arena for it to be workable you need a vibrant open world. Look at the Mistakes of POTBS and the success of Eve for learning points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illusive Tabby Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I agree, but make it so you still need to earn dammage or kills or wins or whatever to progress like it is no. Don't just go "Here's all the ships or half the ships ingame, one of each class or whatever" or, at first, everyone will be "biggest ship fight!" in arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebsif Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Arenas hurt open world pvp though, why sail for loong minutes trying to find some1 when u csn just 1 click arena? WoW and archeage made those mistakes..btw the weekend player argument is exactly why 90% games out there are dumbed down to shit, press F to pay respects if u agree. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir. Cunningham Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 I agree, but make it so you still need to earn dammage or kills or wins or whatever to progress like it is no. Don't just go "Here's all the ships or half the ships ingame, one of each class or whatever" or, at first, everyone will be "biggest ship fight!" in arena. Oh absolutely, just as it works now, only with a much improved lobby system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chustler Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I am unsure. As a fighter with limited time, I like the idea of keeping the arena... However, I would hate for the open world to lose fighting men to it. Let's also remember success in the open world will likely have much less to do with the kind of fighting we see in arena, and much more to do with chases, deception, risk, and evasion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueMyChin Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Arenas hurt open world pvp though, why sail for loong minutes trying to find some1 when u csn just 1 click arena? WoW and archeage made those mistakes.. btw the weekend player argument is exactly why 90% games out there are dumbed down to shit, press F to pay respects if u agree. I think if players are going to prefer the arena mode to open world, then there isn't much chance of them liking open world unless it's a massive death match arena in itself. Keep the arena and then we can get the open world we want and not a more long-winded, complex arena mode 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiefer Cain Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 PotBS tried and failed to address this. They created a skirmish system (arena mode). For whatever reason, the skirmish system is not used a lot. So, PotBS also created a hybrid arena/open sea game. Gladiators get a 30 second lock-down timer for 1v1s. This is all and good for the gladiator, but it completely screws over the war fighting and/or the open sea player (pvp, trader, leveler). Traders and new players are trapped by this arena mechanic (the 1v1 timer: 30 seconds), so you get non-consensual arena warfare more often than you get consensual pre-planned fights. Allies are helpless to reinforce the fight even if they are right outside the battle and were just a few seconds out from 30 seconds from reinforcing. The disturbance to the war game (rvr) and the rest of the game isn't worth the accommodation of 1v1s (arena) in the open world. The game needs to keep the two different modes separate. Do not appease both types of players using a single world by forcing a hybrid system. An arena mode, which doesn't infringe upon the open world economy, war setting and/or other interactions of players will work only if it remains isolated from the sandbox, but I hope the game concentrates on the sandbox game and only implements an arena mode as a tag along feature. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gautrek Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 With the Open World in development and the completetion of the game probably being within the next 12-16 months, I just wanted to point out that it's absolutely crucial that this game keeps the arena mode once the Open World is finished, so that people who don't have tons of time to invest in this game pr. week will always have the opportunity to sail what'ever ship they wish in arena matches against other players such as we have it now. I know that one of the big drawing factors of this game for many has been (and still is) the opportunity to sail the big ships of the line, thus I find it very important this is not taken away Esp. considering that it will provide valuable training for the few lucky captains who actually manage to get that elusive admiralty permit to sail one of these big ships in the open world PS: I'm assuming this is all Game Labs plan as well, however I just couldn't help but make sure I couldn't agree more. I won't have enough time to make any sort of impression on an open world. If people are talking about sailing for hours to get anywhere then I have no interest in that. I just want to battle in sailing ships. I am hoping there will be different scenarios and maps available for the arena area. WOT keep me going for about 3 years by just having an arena mode and I dread to think how much I spent in WOT over the years. So to those who say this game will not work with an arena mode. I disagree as it will keep new players coming just to try the grind to the bigger stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If you have the arena mode perhaps limit it to ships players own in the main game that way when it's quite or if you just want a quick game you can yet you still have good reason to play the mmo component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldEaters Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/3024-current-sea-trials/ it will stay at least in Early access Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think its possible that a hybrid could work and be beneficial. First, have the arena connected to the Open World. To get certain ships you have to play both. But if you don't like this idea than try this one. Use the arena in progression requirements. I would require more arena activity from the new player to help them learn to fight their boat in a low risk environment. This would give them more confidence on the OS. But I would taper the arena off and focus more on the open world activities in order to progress the more advanced player. The arena would still be required but just occasionally. I think you could also have some ships that could only be unlocked through the arena and some ships could only be unlocked through the Open World which would hopefully draw arena players to the open world. Also, rewards could be different. Rewards earned in the arena stay in the arena or most of it does and the rewards in the open world stay there for the most part. People who like the open world wont spend alot of time in the arena because it will provide them very little yet it could still be used for training purposes and practice. I don't think the open world junkies like me will be tempted much by the arena. I'll play it when I'm bored or required to and thats all. World of Tanks is fun but I find more enjoyment in unlocking a new tank then I do in winning a match, there is no thrill of a hard fought highly organized battle because there is no loss. The open world is the only thing that can provide that thrill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gautrek Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think its possible that a hybrid could work and be beneficial. First, have the arena connected to the Open World. To get certain ships you have to play both. But if you don't like this idea than try this one. Use the arena in progression requirements. I would require more arena activity from the new player to help them learn to fight their boat in a low risk environment. This would give them more confidence on the OS. But I would taper the arena off and focus more on the open world activities in order to progress the more advanced player. The arena would still be required but just occasionally. I think you could also have some ships that could only be unlocked through the arena and some ships could only be unlocked through the Open World which would hopefully draw arena players to the open world. Also, rewards could be different. Rewards earned in the arena stay in the arena or most of it does and the rewards in the open world stay there for the most part. People who like the open world wont spend alot of time in the arena because it will provide them very little yet it could still be used for training purposes and practice. I don't think the open world junkies like me will be tempted much by the arena. I'll play it when I'm bored or required to and thats all. World of Tanks is fun but I find more enjoyment in unlocking a new tank then I do in winning a match, there is no thrill of a hard fought highly organized battle because there is no loss. The open world is the only thing that can provide that thrill. No mate. By all means make the progression different and the ships separate but I have a life so will be unable to spend much time in the open world. I am lucky if I get 3 hours a night on the PC. Which is split between gaming and other stuff. So for me the open world is something I may dabble with but will not be able to make much progression if sailing times are measured in hours. So for me the main thrust of this game will be the arena mode. If its taken out then I for one will lose interest in this game as I just don't have the time to do it justice. This is why I have never played games like Eve online and other time sink games. I just don't have the time to do them justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueMyChin Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 ....To get certain ships you have to play both.... I don't think the open world junkies like me will be tempted much by the arena. I'll play it when I'm bored or required to and thats all. ... For this very reason I think, if they're both kept (and I lean towards the idea that they should) then they should be completely separate entities. Almost like two different games. Forcing players to play both undermines the point in having the two in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 For this very reason I think, if they're both kept (and I lean towards the idea that they should) then they should be completely separate entities. Almost like two different games. Forcing players to play both undermines the point in having the two in the first place. I'm not sure why it does. Is there any game out there that has tried to connect two different game types like this? I don't know of any. So, how do we know it will be so bad? The only reason I can see to keep them separate is the fear that the match play game would steal pve players that are afraid to fight when there is a chance of loosing their ship to another player. I could actually see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 First have to see what kind of OS mechanics they will give us. If it will be another ''forced-to-fit-for-speed-instead-of-fighting'' to avoid getting ganked a'la potbs then I can see most people sticking to arena modes just to avoid the hide-and-seek and actually getting fights where people don't turn tail and run after the first broadside exchange doesn't go their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueMyChin Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm not sure why it does. Is there any game out there that has tried to connect two different game types like this? I don't know of any. So, how do we know it will be so bad? The only reason I can see to keep them separate is the fear that the match play game would steal pve players that are afraid to fight when there is a chance of loosing their ship to another player. I could actually see that happening. You said it yourself, you wouldn't want to play arena but then suggest players should be forced to...? Why make players do something they don't want to do? If they want to pvp in the arena then fine. if they want to trade and explore then let them.. The players who only play arena will be those who wouldn't play open world anyway... The players playing open world will be those looking for more than a pvp battle.. I don't care if there have or haven't been games set up like that in the past, it makes perfect sense to do it like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir. Cunningham Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Any word on this Admin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigand Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 The arena mode type of battle availability is planned to be tied into the open world. The topic Battle availability: Gank, Post, Fleet duty started by @admin explains how. But for some reason people only noticed the 'teleport' mechanic and seem to have missed the rest of it, which is actually quite good and innovative. The idea is that players who wish to do so, can (in the Open World) sign up with the navy in order to get access to combat with minimal waiting time: a merchant hires up to x escort ships. When this merchant gets into a fight, the players signed up with the navy are selected to fight in those battles. Since a battle will be fought in an instance, this essentially boils down to battle arena fights, (tied in with the Open World universe) with minimal waiting time on the side of the player who signed up for the 'fleet duty'. In other words, 'fleet duty' is an in-game name for 'quick fight mode' for those who don't have the time or inclination to roam the open seas to go looking for conflict themselves. ~Brigand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir. Cunningham Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Question is wether or not this will still allow players to sail the big ships as often as now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 The arena mode type of battle availability is planned to be tied into the open world. The topic Battle availability: Gank, Post, Fleet duty started by @admin explains how. But for some reason people only noticed the 'teleport' mechanic and seem to have missed the rest of it, which is actually quite good and innovative. The idea is that players who wish to do so, can (in the Open World) sign up with the navy in order to get access to combat with minimal waiting time: a merchant hires up to x escort ships. When this merchant gets into a fight, the players signed up with the navy are selected to fight in those battles. Since a battle will be fought in an instance, this essentially boils down to battle arena fights, (tied in with the Open World universe) with minimal waiting time on the side of the player who signed up for the 'fleet duty'. In other words, 'fleet duty' is an in-game name for 'quick fight mode' for those who don't have the time or inclination to roam the open seas to go looking for conflict themselves. ~Brigand I'm not sure this really addresses the issue at hand Brigand. What you are describing is the escort mechanic in the open world which is quite different than connecting the arena game to the open world in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Doran Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Whatever happens please keep a skirmishing system for people to practice w/ the ships they have in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigand Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I'm not sure this really addresses the issue at hand Brigand. What you are describing is the escort mechanic in the open world which is quite different than connecting the arena game to the open world in some way. I think it depends on the angle from which you look at it. If you look at the mechanics from the merchant point of view, you see an escort system. If you look at it from the fleet duty point of view, you get something very close to battle arena fighting. ~Brigand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 You said it yourself, you wouldn't want to play arena but then suggest players should be forced to...? Why make players do something they don't want to do? If they want to pvp in the arena then fine. if they want to trade and explore then let them.. The players who only play arena will be those who wouldn't play open world anyway... The players playing open world will be those looking for more than a pvp battle.. I don't care if there have or haven't been games set up like that in the past, it makes perfect sense to do it like that. In the open world, like it or not, players will be forced to do many things they would prefer not to do. Everyone hates the grind but I've yet found a game of this type that doesn't have some form of grinding in it and I doubt this game will be different. So, if grinding is gonna happen, would you rather grind NPC ships on the open sea or fight against other players in unpredictable matches that actually test your skill to some degree? I would not apply my idea to merchants and explorers. Merchant ships won't be found in the arena and explorers won't be sailing around the map in first rates so there is no practical connection between the arena and the open world. What I'm attempting to do with my idea is think out of the box. 1. By linking the two types of games then Game Labs has an opportunity to drawl people into both by exposing each group to the other and giving them a reason to play both. That, for them, simply put is a cash opportunity and bringing in cash is the way to keep this game at its highest potential. And we aren't really talking about the players that will ONLY play one or the other but rather the middle of the road players that can be influenced. 2. Grinding sucks against mindless NPCs so the grinds in the arena would be less painful for the open world player. 3. One of the biggest obstacles in Potbs with regards to pvp was confidence of its players. You either sucked real bad or you were OP. There wasn't much middle ground. The arena requirements provide a training ground for players to build confidence and competence and therefore should make the open world more exciting. 4. Connecting the two not only has the effect of bringing in people from the other side but also has the potential to preserve player bases within each group. There will be constant reminders about the "other side" so it will be more difficult to get hyper focused on just one. Now, there is probably a million and one ways to put this into effect and balance the connection but I don't think its counter intuitive. Just so I'm clear, I don't think that to play every ship in the open world you would have to unlock every ship in the arena or vice versa. I suggest that there are a handful of ships that can only be unlocked through the arena and a handful that can only be unlocked through the open world and none of these ships would be "game changer" ships. They would be desirable ships for sure but players could get along fine without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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