LynxDK Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Hello. I was wondering if you have planned the possibility to set Studding Sails. Many ships had them, and i can see that fx the Constitutions rig is ready for it. My thoughts where that when you put the crew in sailing mode, they would have the time to set those sails, to give a Little more speed when in a chase, or a run. I have added some Pictures so you can see what i mean. Lynx. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir. Cunningham Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I like this idea, and it would also be directly useful if the devs add varying wind speeds ingame. For example right now the state of the sea doesn't really correlate with the amount of wind we have in our sails Thus studding sails would actually be necessary to achieve the speeds we are achieving right now without them 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handuer Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I think if they are added they should be more fragile then main sails, so that people dont put them up in combat. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balck Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Adding to Sir Cunningham's comment. If added, masts and rigging should react accordingly. If wind speed is too great to fly so much canvass, prepare for some nastiness. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 First of all, the devs have stated that they don't like stuns'ls, as they make ships look like "overweight elephants." What they may not realize, is that those scenes of ships carrying stuns'sls on every spar, on every mast, are as rare historically as a white overweight elephant. More common by far is a ship carrying a single weather foretopmast stun'sl. Throw in a lee maintopmast stuns'l or a few t'gallantmast stuns'l and you've already covered most of their everyday use. But therein lies the problem. It's such a complex subject with so many configurations and limitations that implementing stuns'sls practically demands the development of a more detailed sail-by-sail sailing model with blanketing and weather damage. It just can't be done well by half measures. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William the Drake Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I think the answer to the problem Maturin presented can be found in a combination of the suggestions in this discussion. Have each ship's model designed with all the stunsails already in place (i.e. the "White overweight Elephant). But have the player be able to customize which stunsails they wish to use on their ship (perhaps even for a small instillation/removal fee, later in game development: The default ship will have no additional stunsails until otherwise purchased and/or installed) With the model already supporting all possible stunsail positions, it will be able to accommodate any custom configuration. The sailing stats would be the trickier part, although I believe the same format should work: each individual stunsail would have it's own bonuses and drawbacks, and the design would have the full bonuses/drawbacks implemented for the "Elephant" version. Just as with the model, the captain will only receive the effects of the stunsails he/she has installed. Not only do you add a valuable resource for captains to utilize, but you also make gameplay more dynamic by giving players more options to sail and fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Cloudsley-Shovell Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Will the use of stun sails/Studding Sails be implemented at all?This would aid long distance voyages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portsdown Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I would suggest only after the introduction of Reefing, sending down Topmasts etc. in storms. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William the Drake Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 This has been previously discussed here: Additional Sails (Studding Sails) No official correspondence on the matter as of yet however. I foresee that it will be likely to be implemented Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Cloudsley-Shovell Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I think if they are added they should be more fragile then main sails, so that people dont put them up in combat. They are definatly much more fragile than the main sails due to the Studding Yards being much much thinner than the main Yards.There is the added disadvantage that too much canvas can make stuff carry away,so its not a good idea in high wind speeds or combat to have them bent on.Think of them as a sort of "Overdrive" in low to moderate wind states when running before the Wind,they are of no use in anything than running! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Stun'sls could in fact be used with the wind abeam or even slightly forward of the beam. Carrying a weather foretopmast stuns'l relieves griping, prevents the helmsman from pinching too close to the wind, and provides a reference for steering. Topmast stuns'ls were also carried at times with a single reef in the topsails. That means 20-25 knots of wind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigand Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Where stunsails used in battle? or where they a typical tool for speeding up the long voyage? ~Brigand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Harland never mentions using them in battle. They are fiddly, labor-intensive things and thus really the opposite of 'battle sail,' which is canvas that is easy to handle and lets you slide along at a modest speed. One potential plus is that they are expendable. I imagine that if stuns'ls were used in battle, Nelson would have set them at Trafalgar during that slow, exposed charge. But it appears he didn't. Edit: It looks like Nelson did indeed use stuns'ls. But Wikipedia claims that this was atypical.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trafalgar1.jpg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishigami Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I would like to throw my support behind the idea to feature stunsails. I think if done right this would add another strategic option and add to the games depth. My idea: Stunsails need way longer to be set or reefed than the other sails It should only be possible to set or reef stunsails with the crew focus set on sailing. Set stunsails should make masts way more fragile to enemy fire or storms. Stunsails should have their own keys assigned. Stunsails give a considerable speed bonus in running or broad reach conditions Stunsails give a considerable speed penalty in close haul to against the wind conditions With these rules, which of course need fine tuning and testing, stunsails are more less only useful in a flee and chase scenario with fair weather conditions on top of gap closer. Prolonged set or reef time makes sure the stunsails are not used just to cover a rather short distance but longer distances since the player would need to weight the time necessary to set or reef sails against the time necessary to cover the distance which becomes really important with rules number two: A set crew focus. The slower animation gives chasing players time to realize the change in situation better, allowing them to react before terrible overshooting their target. Having to set the crew focus on sailing and forcing it to stay there in order to set or reef the stunsails adds an additional delay to the command. Captains would need to consider this and plan before hand when to set or reef the sails. They can’t simply press a button and the sails go up or down. This also prevents players from reloading guns fast or repair their ship while setting stunsails. You either chase, repair or fire not all at the same time (at least with stunsails). The game should in general introduce a damage system for sails and masts for stormy conditions. It is quite unrealistic I believe that these vessel would travel with full sails set in a stormy condition. Don’t limit the player, e.g. players can only set half sails in storm, but add a certain risk to it: If you set full sails in a storm you masts may break. Maybe it can be realized in a sort of damage over time matter. It is a “gamey” solution but I think it would suffice and would take a RNG out of the picture. If you set full sails your masts take damage over time and once their “hp” are depleted they break of course. This would mean that if you use full sails in a storm battle that it is easier to be dismasted. In general I think it should be easier to dismast a ship with full sails than one with battle sails. This would also add another purpose to the battle sails. Well back to stunsails: Having set stunsails would add a multiplier to the damage over time or risk to be dismasted. If you are good shoot you might hit your target while it tries to get away or close the gab under stunsails and wola a masts goes overboard giving you the chance to intercept or escape. Basically it simply would make using them in direct battle very risky and probably undesirable. Which is the intention: No stunsails in direct combat. Its gab closer, chase or escape helper no “additional normal sail setting”. Since I force players to be in crew focus sailing while setting or reefing stunsails there is obviously the downside that if you link the stunsails to the usual sail buttons W and A that players might accidentally set stunsails and then are trapped in a crew focus they may not want. Giving stunsails their own keys to set and reef them removes this possibility. You pressed the specific button so you wanted stunsails so no complaining being unable to change the crew focus during the maneuver. Last but not least there must be of course a point to setting these sails and of course it is the speed or better the bonus they add on top of your full set sails. All of the above just to get faster from point a to b. I don’t have any suggested how much it should be it simply must be experimented on and balanced between the time necessary to change crew focus and setting and reefing sails etc. After all the rules I proposed are there to limit the use of them. If they were mere another sail setting everyone would pop them up and down as it is currently with the battle and full sail setting. Anyway I think with the right balance stunsails could be a strategic addition to the game. And I think they look awesome and intimidating. Edited February 17, 2015 by Ishigami 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Gatsby Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) Maybe studding sails could be added as equipment of the ship. USS Monongahela Amerigo Vespucci Edited April 6, 2015 by Captain Jack Aubrey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 So far, there doesn't appear to be any plan to implement studdingsails. I believe I saw a response from Admin that they made ships look awful (like an elephant I believe the quote was?). Before Studdingsails, I'd like to see the implementation of only flying enough canvas for the weather you're in. To have ships running around with every studdingsail flying all the time would be more distracting than not having them at all in my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Gatsby Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) So far, there doesn't appear to be any plan to implement studdingsails. I believe I saw a response from Admin that they made ships look awful (like an elephant I believe the quote was?). Before Studdingsails, I'd like to see the implementation of only flying enough canvas for the weather you're in. To have ships running around with every studdingsail flying all the time would be more distracting than not having them at all in my opinion. The studding sails were very commonly used in the 18th / 19th century, so I think it would be wrong not to put them, then this type of sails were used during navigation, and pursuits, and were not used during the fighting, and then we should take a long for more time to be deployed. HMS Victory with studding sails and top mast sails Edited April 6, 2015 by Captain Jack Aubrey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) I believe I saw a response from Admin that they made ships look awful (like an elephant I believe the quote was?). Really? I hope there's some better reasoning for choosing not to implement it. I personally think it looks amazing (Ofcourse, i haven't seen it ingame, if maybe Admin could show us how it would look if they already experimented with it..) ^^ - It could basically be a thing for open world play and not for use in the instanced battles. I assume they take some time to deploy but it would be a cool feature for open world and the long trips we will probably be making. Well i take that back after reading Dazed's comment, if true i'd say it should be something we can buy for our ships if we want to. I imagine there must be some disadvantages when it comes to using them in battle? Edited April 6, 2015 by TommyShelby 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazednConfused Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) its funny you should bring up the victory - as for not having them up in battle, all British ships in the battle of Trafalgar used studding sails to close with the combined French/ Spanish line and no doubt the vic and others still had them up when engaged. to prove this Google battle of Trafalgar and go to images. you will see more than one painting of the battle with ships still having them on whilst engaged. Edited April 6, 2015 by DazednConfused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Freedom Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) The French ship in Master and Commander had it and it didn't look bad at all This should be up to a vote because it's historically accurate and the arcade crowd would enjoy the faster speed. Edited April 6, 2015 by Jack Freedom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 This should be up to a vote because it's historically accurate and the arcade crowd would enjoy the faster speed. This is democracy since when...? o_O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Freedom Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 This is democracy since when...? o_O Since all the other polls in the forums. Especially the one where we got to pick 3 ships from a list to be included in game. A lot of this game will be based on decisions from threads like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 The French ship in Master and Commander had it and it didn't look bad at all This should be up to a vote because it's historically accurate and the arcade crowd would enjoy the faster speed. They wouldn't add any speed at all in the wind conditions that currently exit in game. If used in those conditions, they'd carry away instantly when set. They're used when running in lighter air only. The reason they may have been set at Trafalgar was due to the light, dying air. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kang Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 The may be realistic but wow looks like someone hung out the laundry or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirones Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 maybe on the OW while sailing around in battle the would most likely be useless since we dont have calm winds atm even in the storm settings dead slow has to much sails. there are more important featurs that need to be done atm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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