CaptVonGunn Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I know I have talked about this don't think I have made a thread on it.. My Search Fu has failed me. Here goes The single biggest fun killer in this game right now is the Battle entry sight Camp. It makes Zero sense that you can fight a 90 minute battle then come into open world into the middle of a dozen ships parked right on top of you... The 120 sec invis and invul timer use to help that.. but the gankers cried enough it was changed. So now I shall tick them off more. When you leave battle you should have no more then 5 min at post battle screen.... then you get booted to open world.... If you log off at that screen you should still get booted to Open world and your log off happens from there.. BUT When you come out of battle each side should appear 3-5 min sail time from the Battle entry point in a random direction at least 90 degrees off from the other.. and NOT on land... This ensures a reasonable chance to do sometime other then be drug directly back into battle.. It also simulates the moving aspect of a sea battle... It also does away with the wasted time of getting attacked escaping through distance only to be back in open world 20 yards from the guy you were a thousand yards from away from when battle ended.. or a LOT father if the heavies got left behind,.... Flame away 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsafer Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 This is a good idea, I never liked the fact that if you escaped a foe you had 10 more waiting for you when you leave the port which realistically would never happen. Another solution and maybe a easier one is once the battle closes the cross swords would disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalyd Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 What I would like to see is that you spawn in the open world at the exact same spot you were in the instance when the battle is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skully Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) It makes Zero sense that you can fight a 90 minute battle then come into open world into the middle of a dozen ships parked right on top of you... The 120 sec invis and invul timer use to help that.. but the gankers cried enough it was changed. So now I shall tick them off more. Actually both gankers and gankees complained. Invisibility is a huge boon for the bait-ship tactic and a bane for the revenge fleet. Log-off after battle is a mandatory option. Well established need. Why would we need funkiness of going over OW? When you come out of battle each side should appear 3-5 min sail time from the Battle entry point in a random direction at least 90 degrees off from the other.. and NOT on land... This ensures a reasonable chance to do sometime other then be drug directly back into battle.. It also simulates the moving aspect of a sea battle... It also does away with the wasted time of getting attacked escaping through distance only to be back in open world 20 yards from the guy you were a thousand yards from away from when battle ended.. or a LOT father if the heavies got left behind,.... Flame away Sounds like too many side effects, not to mention that still a fleet would appear out of nowhere on top of the one lone Pavel which never has any luck. Abusing is easy, as we would call Scotty to fire up the warp drive at Mortimer. I think what you are trying to address is the timewarp advantage of somebody who is not in the battle itself. I also think we should try and look at this from a different angle and see what solution (if any) might present itself. Let me draw some diagrams and lets discuss some hypothetical scenarios. Edited June 19, 2016 by Skully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bommel Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 What I would like to see is that you spawn in the open world at the exact same spot you were in the instance when the battle is over That could be abused for avoiding/bypassing OW travel, eventhough it would take a lot more traveltime. I could undock then attack an AI trader and sail in battle instance to my destination then leave the instance and dock up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skully Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Lets kick off with: Blue and Red both sailed from their respective ports at perfect (static) wind towards one-another and started a battle of five 4th rates vs five 4th rates. The battle is roughly 5 minutes sailing and just out of sight from each port. Both Blue and Red have five 4th rates still at the ready in their respective ports. What should happen? IMO both reinforcement fleets should sail to the battle, where a Mexican standoff will initiate. Will you wait for the additional forces coming out of battle? Or even let some drop out of battle to initiate an overwhelming battle? Risking losing the existing battle. Or engage early and hope both battles can be won? So I'm curious how people would like to see this scenario roll out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdoomed Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Tell ya what , take away the stupid ass telrport with no cooldown that lets 80% of the nations bored players to teleport to me NO MATTER WHERE and sit and wait for me after i plan a careful patrol and attack and we can revisit this. Until then after i attack i have 30 people waiting to tag me over and over no matter how many times i escape i should be able to log off after 4 hours of this BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 This thread should be merged with "Hiding in Battle Screens - solved(?) -- http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14485-hiding-in-battle-screens-solved/ Very similar discussions. Skully, such a pie in the sky balanced scene would NEVER happen in OW in this game - NEVER EVER EVER NEVER ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skully Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) Skully, such a pie in the sky balanced scene would NEVER happen in OW in this game - NEVER EVER EVER NEVER ..... Very true, but it should serve as defining the basics of the mechanic. Then we introduce an imbalance and decide who would theoretically be victorious. For example: What if Red does not have any ships at the ready in Caracas? Should this affect the initial Red ships in battle?How would you like to see it, if you are Red? And how if you are Blue? My opinion: Red should have the opportunity to win that battle, but the next battle they are screwed. Why: on a strategic level Red didn't properly setup. Blue did and now get an opportunity to strike back. The mechanics should not take away the Blue opportunity (with TP's home and such). But a blind log-off is mandatory. Edited June 22, 2016 by Skully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar Matey Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I know I have talked about this don't think I have made a thread on it.. My Search Fu has failed me. Here goes The single biggest fun killer in this game right now is the Battle entry sight Camp. It makes Zero sense that you can fight a 90 minute battle then come into open world into the middle of a dozen ships parked right on top of you... The 120 sec invis and invul timer use to help that.. but the gankers cried enough it was changed. So now I shall tick them off more. When you leave battle you should have no more then 5 min at post battle screen.... then you get booted to open world.... If you log off at that screen you should still get booted to Open world and your log off happens from there.. BUT When you come out of battle each side should appear 3-5 min sail time from the Battle entry point in a random direction at least 90 degrees off from the other.. and NOT on land... This ensures a reasonable chance to do sometime other then be drug directly back into battle.. It also simulates the moving aspect of a sea battle... It also does away with the wasted time of getting attacked escaping through distance only to be back in open world 20 yards from the guy you were a thousand yards from away from when battle ended.. or a LOT father if the heavies got left behind,.... Flame away If you manage to escape a port battle, you should have the option to teleport to the nearest friendly port. This stops the port battle gankers in their tracks. If you want to kill ships, join the port battle, and stop trying to kill stragglers exiting the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdoomed Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 If you manage to escape a port battle, you should have the option to teleport to the nearest friendly port. This stops the port battle gankers in their tracks. If you want to kill ships, join the port battle, and stop trying to kill stragglers exiting the battle. This needs to be for exiting any battle screen. Since suspension of disbelief is needed to play NA anyways and not everyone after spending 1 and a half hours in a battle has time to then fight the countless gangbang squads outside for another 3 hours. Teleports to friendly ports is a must to keep a player base. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Tell ya what , take away the stupid ass telrport with no cooldown that lets 80% of the nations bored players to teleport to me NO MATTER WHERE and sit and wait for me after i plan a careful patrol and attack and we can revisit this. Until then after i attack i have 30 people waiting to tag me over and over no matter how many times i escape i should be able to log off after 4 hours of this BS. Wait, you just said you wanted to get rid of "stupid-ass teleports"... Now you want them, but only after a battle?? Theyre either good or bad. Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdoomed Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) Wait, you just said you wanted to get rid of "stupid-ass teleports"... Now you want them, but only after a battle?? Theyre either good or bad. Which is it? since we both know teleports are here to stay then lets USE telepots and not pussyfoot around.I can want teleports gone all day amd guess what its not gonna happen cuz every player but me loves instant movement SO im saying lets do wjat the OP says and improve it by including all battles. Can i not dislike a mechanic but still accept that its part of the game ? Edited June 22, 2016 by Mrdoomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrakkenSmacken Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) I think the approach has merit, but I wonder if all the current approaches don't suffer from a basic flaw. That basic flaw being that everything so far has been revolving about what happens AFTER you hit the OW, not the method that triggers the transition start in the first place. If your in a fight and hit [ESC] to exit, have nothing to decide regarding captured ships and rewards, you can be transitioned back to the OW effectivly instantly. Perhaps where we need to deal with this, is by putting limitations on how that occurs. So with that in mind. Give players a way to see what is in the OW before they commit to exiting the battle instance. Either a [TAB] like ship display of visible ships, or a copy of the map tool used in battle. Something that shows the ships and active instances in the OW. When a person selects to join the OW, a count down timer to join the OW starts. Base 120 seconds, that adds 1 second for every second you sat on the end of battle screen, up to 300 seconds. This countdown is canceled if there are no ships or events in visible range on the OW. Once you start that countdown, you WILL be pushed into the OW when it ends. You can not cancel this once it is started. Where your ship will appear in the OW, a semi transparent copy of your ship will appear, showing where you will be entering the OW when the timer ends. The semi transparent copy of the ship will not appear on the in instance view of the OW. Those in other battle instances are not aware of each other's transitions. Logon joining directly into the OW, will trigger the countdown (max time) and the transparent copy of your ship. What this accomplishes is several things. You can't use the invisible duck blind to hide. Any fight that starts before you request to leave the battle screen, will be a fight you can not participate in, and many that you have requested to leave before, but start early in your count down, you will also not be able to join. There is no advantage or way to avoid the battle screen limitations by using logon/off mechanics. The onus is on you to be certain the area is clear before joining the OW. You can log out, and avoid the revenge fleet. The fact no transparent copy of your ship shows up will mean they know you have decided to wait them out. Now let's be clear, I do not have a problem with TP to capital, but if that is not an option perhaps we need to look at HOW a person enters the OW, and not simply what we do about them once they arrive. Edited June 22, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Actually both gankers and gankees complained. Invisibility is a huge boon for the bait-ship tactic and a bane for the revenge fleet. Log-off after battle is a mandatory option. Well established need. Why would we need funkiness of going over OW? Sounds like too many side effects, not to mention that still a fleet would appear out of nowhere on top of the one lone Pavel which never has any luck. Abusing is easy, as we would call Scotty to fire up the warp drive at Mortimer. I think what you are trying to address is the timewarp advantage of somebody who is not in the battle itself. I also think we should try and look at this from a different angle and see what solution (if any) might present itself. Let me draw some diagrams and lets discuss some hypothetical scenarios. Maybe... but with a spread out spawn in the chances of it going sideways on spawn are minimal. As it stands now your choices are stop playing and go do something else for 30 min or longer or spawn out and get ganked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 since we both know teleports are here to stay then lets USE telepots and not pussyfoot around. I can want teleports gone all day amd guess what its not gonna happen cuz every player but me loves instant movement SO im saying lets do wjat the OP says and improve it by including all battles. Can i not dislike a mechanic but still accept that its part of the game ? Not every player... I would have preferred that rather then instant Teleport all day long they put a 15-20 min cool down on them... the 4 hours was far to long in a game as slow moving as this... but 15-20 min would Greatly reduce the crazy transferring of fleets... Add in no sending f ships into a port that a flag has been bought for.. (but that will likely be handled with the other changes they have coming for ships and PBs anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skully Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 If you manage to escape a port battle, you should have the option to teleport to the nearest friendly port. This stops the port battle gankers in their tracks. If you want to kill ships, join the port battle, and stop trying to kill stragglers exiting the battle. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14792-pvp1-june-22nd-the-foggy-dance-at-bone-cay/ If you see no chance of winning a port battle and getting away, then gank the stragglers who are trying to get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 If you manage to escape a port battle, you should have the option to teleport to the nearest friendly port. This stops the port battle gankers in their tracks. If you want to kill ships, join the port battle, and stop trying to kill stragglers exiting the battle. WHy? There is a history of general chases after a major battle... But it should be a true chase not a battle that starts in the exact same spot the first battle started at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar Matey Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) WHy? There is a history of general chases after a major battle... But it should be a true chase not a battle that starts in the exact same spot the first battle started at Those chases should happen in the port battle, not in the open world and being dragged into another hour long battle in grossly outmatched 4, 5, or 6 vs 1 matches. If you are on the winning side of a port battle, then sink and capture as many ships as you can in the port battle. If you are on the losing side and manage to escape the port battle, then you should not have to deal with open world gankers waiting to sink or capture your ship. The 2 minute battle timer and 2 minute wait timer from leaving the port battle along with the 30 second no attack exacerbate the situation even more. If I leave a port battle, I can be attacked within 30 seconds, but my friends leaving the port battles cannot join that gank battle because of the 2 minute wait timer. Its gotten so bad that, at the end of a port battle, whether we win or lose, I just end up logging off on the battle screen and go do something else, play another video game or go to bed. Even if we win, there have been times, I physically couldn't get the ship into range to enter the port we just captured before being pulled into a gank battle. Also, some of us have jobs, kids, real life things to do. A port battle can already take over an hour to complete. Some of us simply do not have the time to continue fighting in another hour long battle after the port battle ends. Many times after the port battle ends, I need to go to bed because I have work in the morning. Edited June 24, 2016 by Ultravis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted June 24, 2016 Author Share Posted June 24, 2016 Those chases should happen in the port battle, not in the open world and being dragged into another hour long battle in grossly outmatched 4, 5, or 6 vs 1 matches. If you are on the winning side of a port battle, then sink and capture as many ships as you can in the port battle. If you are on the losing side and manage to escape the port battle, then you should not have to deal with open world gankers waiting to sink or capture your ship. The 2 minute battle timer and 2 minute wait timer from leaving the port battle along with the 30 second no attack exacerbate the situation even more. If I leave a port battle, I can be attacked within 30 seconds, but my friends leaving the port battles cannot join that gank battle because of the 2 minute wait timer. Its gotten so bad that, at the end of a port battle, whether we win or lose, I just end up logging off on the battle screen and go do something else, play another video game or go to bed. Even if we win, there have been times, I physically couldn't get the ship into range to enter the port we just captured before being pulled into a gank battle. Also, some of us have jobs, kids, real life things to do. A port battle can already take over an hour to complete. Some of us simply do not have the time to continue fighting in another hour long battle after the port battle ends. Many times after the port battle ends, I need to go to bed because I have work in the morning. Currently you cant do that in PB.. Since once your side has a decided advantage it declares Battle over... Plus teh silly shrinking circle of death thing... and time limit. If the PB had no time limit would distance restriction I would agree with you... but it does not... But even so.. my original suggestion would work for a PB also... Just have the ships that can not dock up at the Port spawn into the OW 3-5 min sailing distance from the PB location... In a random direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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