Port battles assault flag rework proposals - moderated

[admin]

Hello Captains

Please no off topic

 

Here is a basic description of the port assault flag rework to solve timer problems and flag purchase exploitation problems.

 

This is a brainstorming topic - do not critique other player suggestions - just provide your ideas if you have any.

• Like the post if you like the idea
• Post your ideas or build on other ideas if you know that you can improve them

The goals for the rework

• To provide ability to all players to influence the port battle preparation stage
• To eliminate timers
• To allow both sides the simple and clear resolution of the port battle creation
• To give time to prepare for the port battle for the enemy side

The first proposal borrows from other games (easier to stand on the shoulders of giants). 

 

Port can be raided any time

Port can be captured only if assault fleet is built 

• To set up a port battle Nation must build an Assault Fleet
• Building an assault fleet requires weapons, troops, transports and supplies (any player can add them to the project)
• Once the project is fully supplied the construction starts
• It takes X days to complete the project
• Once the construction starts it will generate pvp quests for the Nation and Target Nation in the port zone, completing those quests can increase or decrease the speed of construction (or can be a hard requirement to complete)
• Nation can speed up the completion by bringing additional resources and PvP rewards
• Enemy nations can delay the completion by disrupting supplies, raiding by smuggling in the PvP rewards and by other means

Once the project is completed the port battle will start exactly 48 hours (2 days) after completion. 

 

Discuss and ask questions

[mikawa]

 

Port can be raided any time

Port can be captured only if assault fleet is built

What's the difference between them both, considering gameplay mechanics? Does raiding mean stealing materials & gold?

 

 

Nation can speed up the completion by bringing additional resources and PvP rewards ... Enemy nations can delay the completion by disrupting supplies ...

What's the point in delaying construction? What benefits do the defenders have?

 

 

Once the project is completed the port battle will start exactly 48 hours (2 days) after completion.

Can you say something about how to join a port battle then?

[Sven Silberbart]

Is there a need to transport the flag to the harbour after it is created? (like the current system? - Flag carrier)

[Paint]

What's the difference between them both, considering gameplay mechanics? Does raiding mean stealing materials & gold?

 

What's the point in delaying construction? What benefits do the defenders have?

 

Can you say something about how to join a port battle then?

Longer preparation Time for the defenders. 

[Anne Wildcat]

it would be nice to have the enemy nation, and pirates, to be able to deter conquest.

Maybe have some way to gather Intel on where assault fleets are being made.

Transporting of supplies should be done by players on OW so enemies can attack.

Maybe instead of a 25 limit, have a BR limit (with a number cap limit to avoid cutter spamming & bad lag) based on port size and number of outposts built in that port, or something that shows importance (maybe average daily shop purchases) so that both small and large ships can be important to the battle or raid.

Besides reworking pbs, ports need to have importance to their nation.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Anne Wildcat

[Eishen]

Devs, you should think a way to avoid that the most populated nations steamrolled others with this new pb mechanic.

 

• Once the construction starts it will generate pvp quests for the Nation and Target Nation in the port zone, completing those quests can increase or decrease the speed of construction (or can be a hard requirement to complete)

I suggest  they being a hard requirement for the atacking faction and  having a hard limit -for both sides- in total modification capabilities, as to not allow masive defensive  zergs making imposibel the attack , while unsupporting lots of attack building at the same time.

[Poyraz]

This sounds more or less like the unrest concept in PotBS, which worked OK besides the lottery system to join the final battle.

 

Stage 1: Constructing the assault project / Building assault fleet / Build up of unrest in PotBS

 

Attacker tries to rise the unrest point, defender tries to decrease it like in PotBS with activities around the port in open sea as well as in instances around the port. If the attacker reaches a definite amount of unrest, than there will be a PB scheduled 48 hours later. (24 hours would be more responsive though)

 

I would like to add, that if the attacker goes past a definite percentage of completion of assult fleet, lets say 50%, and the defender than can reduce it again until zero, the port should go under martial law protecting it from an attack for consecutive 3 days.

 

So, the defender would actually have the opportunity to repel the attack on first stage in open sea.

 

Also one more target and initiative for attacker might be, if they could reach, lets say 200% unrest of the required amount, they might conquer the port with this open sea campaign without the need of a 25 v 25 instanced PB, where only 50 people have the opportunity to join the war effort instead of many more.

 

Stage 2: Final port battle in instance

 

25 v 25 instanced battle for final result

[CeltiberoCaesar]

The port has to be conquered after 3 battles.

1st-when the attaquers decide

2nd-32 hours later

3rd-64 houra after the first one.

If you win 2/3 of those battles you take the port.

This way the battle long for 3 days, the port can be defended/attaqued in every timezone, more players can participate and both teams have time enough to prepare the whole port battle.

Since the port battles will be each 7 days, they have to be big enought so there wont be 1 day battle and 6 of nothing to do.

[Ned Loe]

This sounds more or less like the unrest concept in PotBS, which worked OK besides the lottery system to join the final battle.

 

Stage 1: Constructing the assault project / Building assault fleet / Build up of unrest in PotBS

 

Attacker tries to rise the unrest point, defender tries to decrease it like in PotBS with activities around the port on OS as well as instances around the port.

 

I would like to add, that if the attacker goes past a definite percentage of completion of assult fleet, lets say 50%, and the defender than can reduce it again until zero, the port should go under martial law protecting it from an attack for consecutive 3 days.

 

So, the defender would actually have the opportunity to repel the attack on first stage.

 

Also one more target and initiative for attacker might be, if they could reach, lets say 200% unrest of the required amount, they might conquer the port with this open sea campaign without the need of a 25 v 25 instanced PB, where only 50 people have the opportunity to join the war effort instead of many more.

 

Stage 2: Final port battle in instance

 

25 v 25 instanced battle for final result

lets say 200% unrest of the required amount, they might conquer the port with this open sea campaign without the need of a 25 v 25 instanced PB...

 

This will result in the same 25 1st rates go into pvp around the port. I disagree. PB must dictate the final outcome. 

[Chimera]

Just a quick question to clarify:

If Nations can speed up or delay the completion of the assault fleet, is there a way to control at what time the port battle will start?

Does that mean by delaying a fleet that is set to be completed at 18-00 the defending nation can push the assault into a time frame better suited for them?

[Poyraz]

lets say 200% unrest of the required amount, they might conquer the port with this open sea campaign without the need of a 25 v 25 instanced PB...

 

This will result in the same 25 1st rates go into pvp around the port. I disagree. PB must dictate the final outcome. 

 

This will be somehow offtopic, but

1. It is just a coarse concept model. You can increase and adjust the target values accordingly.
2. According to your assumption, the points are gained via PvP. Lets think even if so, and the defender won't show up on open sea to counter the attackers, then this means no points for zerg attacker to reach the extra 200% or higher targets.
3. There is allways the final PB opportunity.

[pietjenoob]

Will their be also some kind of moral game in play. What i am suggesting is that a port is for say 10 days or more, i believe the average time for certain ports it will take longer the prep time then normal becaus the residents of that port have been so long under a certain nation/faction rule. A bit like the boarding game that a fort provides x amount of moral extra. Example if you try to take a port the moral at the very first battle is 100 and you need 10 quests for example to reduce it to zero but with the fort you get 20 moral extra and it will take 15 quests, particially because of the historical reason of forts and natural supplies of the fort.

And for pirates it will be a little bit harder in the same situation it will take them at least 18-20 quests because of the fact that pirates are not having the structure of making a cordinated attack (yes i know pirates can coordinate but gameplay wise and a little RP)and to keep, hold and maintain a port, with a few exceptions. So after 7 days of raiding( give it a semi-freetown status) the piratea leave and abondon the town(go back to a neutral port-status

Edited June 13, 2016 by pietjenoob

[admin]

What's the difference between them both, considering gameplay mechanics? Does raiding mean stealing materials & gold?

 

What's the point in delaying construction? What benefits do the defenders have?

 

Can you say something about how to join a port battle then?

 

raiding is for stealing materials and robbing ports.

delaying construction is to get the better time or delay it indefinitely

joining port battles will work just like now - there is a marker - you sail there and enter.

 

Is there a need to transport the flag to the harbour after it is created? (like the current system? - Flag carrier)

 

there will be no flag and no flag carrier as this is creating too many loopholes

 

Devs, you should think a way to avoid that the most populated nations steamrolled others with this new pb mechanic.

 

least populated nations will join alliances with strong nations

+ some mechanisms could be created for overextended nations, but to an extent; this is a war game and we don't want to turn it into american wrestling match

 

The port has to be conquered after 3 battles.

1st-when the attaquers decide

2nd-32 hours later

3rd-64 houra after the first one.

If you win 2/3 of those battles you take the port.

 

 

So if i won the first battle with a decisive result i still can lose it if someone else lost it?

3 port battles is bad design. Because if i really want this port I will have to fight in 3 port battles instead of 1, especially if my nation has only 25 active captains. Why should I rely on others to get the result I want. 

 

Just a quick question to clarify:

If Nations can speed up or delay the completion of the assault fleet, is there a way to control at what time the port battle will start?

Does that mean by delaying a fleet that is set to be completed at 18-00 the defending nation can push the assault into a time frame better suited for them?

 

Yes. Thats the point. Defenders can sabotage your assault fleet construction and delay the port battle for some time or indefinitely if they are active. 

[Eishen]

Some more thinkings....all around the first proposed system:

 

Assest for Building should be deliverable to any attacking faction port , and the current and target level should be visible in each one.(opens an historical use to spy-alters)

 

Once the level is reached and the preparations commence, this fact should appear in game (as it is now whan a flag is buyed)

 

Allied nations can help with both , building (delivering assets) and preparations (doing missions)

 

PvP misions to accrue "preparation points" must not be pvp exclusive, but PvP open -i.e. enter in smuggler mode in taget port- (to avoid defender deniying points by avoiding PvP)

 

There should be a minimun preparations points that must be earned each day during preparation process. This force attackers implication in building tacks, and indirectly limits number of ports in preparation process at same time.

 

 

Preparation % should be public, and accurate to the minute.

 

There should be a maximun preparation points that can be gained by either side each day (helps population balance). 

   -  Attacker  preparation points traslate into an increasing preparation%  , Defender points slows the increase, but can never decrease or stops   it as long as attacker reach its minimun preparation points for each day.   (to avoid big nations deactivating an attacks by sheer numbers)

 

    When preparation% (public) reach 100% the time is set, and it cannot be modified afterwise. (so attacker has more control on PB time as he can  delay preparations completion  if he wants) 

 

 

(Optional: Once time is set points in the 1/2 days waiting period could be  used to allow extra BR in PB for each side , if BR limit is used someday, or allowing extra ships)

 

When the time comes , the PB  should allow entering for at least one full hour prior its start, to allow attacker reach it (avoid  overpowered delaying defending blockades). 

 

ANY number of players should be able to enter the battle before it starts , but when it does start slots should be assigned by  (or with a % directly proportional to) to the preparation points gained for the player for that port (this helps avoid "traitors & alts" and rewards players who participate in preparations, both defensive and ofensive)

[admin]

 

 

ANY number of players should be able to enter the battle before it starts , but when it does start slots should be assigned by  (or with a % directly proportional to) to the preparation points gained for the player for that port (this helps avoid "traitors & alts" and rewards players who participate in preparations, both defensive and ofensive)

 

good point

solving lots of problems 

[Skully]

• To set up a port battle Nation must build an Assault Fleet

How and where is the Assault Fleet setup?

 

We don't want a repeat of some cabin boy setting up the Nation's Assault Fleet on some silly point.

 

How about renaming it to Army and give everybody the option to deliver initial troops to any enemy port? Or is that too much?

It may even be some form of rumor system that tells everyone troops have been seen sailing out of a port.

 

Then let the attacking army suffer attrition, so if nobody (or just that one cabin boy) supplies the attacking army it will simply shrivel away.

 

It also gives the assaulting party a slight influence over the potential attacking time window.

 

As long as a single player can't influence the window too much as not to ruin the play for others, we should be good.

[admin]

 

We don't want a repeat of some cabin boy setting up the Nation's Assault Fleet on some silly point.

 

 

 

Because Assault fleet requires national level of resources, supplies and effort, cabin boy can set up as many fleets as he want. Only finished national projects will matter (remember civilization wonders?). And nation decides which fleet gets finished (or a large group of people)

[Skully]

Because Assault fleet requires national level of resources, supplies and effort, cabin boy can set up as many fleets as he want. Only finished national projects will matter (remember civilization wonders?). And nation decides which fleet gets finished (or a large group of people)

Right, but where does an Assault Fleet construction start? An owned port or an enemy port?

 

Or do you mean every own port can start construction of an Assault Fleet to any enemy port?

And then we need to escort it in, or something. That actually sounds like fun.

[admin]

 

And then we need to escort it in, or something. That actually sounds like fun.

 

not sure about that

if it sails on OW it could be griefed to hell

[Skully]

not sure about that

if it sails on OW it could be griefed to hell

Very true. So back to my original point, lets call it Army or Invasion Army which you setup at an enemy port (or really some close-by landfall).

 

Then you get something like:

http://www.awiatsea.com/images/NPE76/Landing%20on%20New%20Providence.jpg

http://www.awiatsea.com/images/NPE76/First%20Landing.jpg

 

[Hethwill]

The idea as it is presented in the OP is simple and seems to be a perfect multiplayer and involving the whole nation, adds a new layer for a purpose for the missions and trade runs.

 

Glad to see a mechanic being put for a build up for a war fleet instead of abstract "paintball flag" as we have now

 

Also the opportunity to disrupt build up with pvp, and trade raid  is excelent.

 

Just have a question about this disruption - has to be in a specific area or ... ?!

 

Another, any enemy faction can disrupt or the one being targetted by the war fleet ?

[Nash]

• To set up a port battle Nation must build an Assault Fleet
• Building an assault fleet requires weapons, troops, transports and supplies (any player can add them to the project)
• Once the project is fully supplied the construction starts

 

I will focus on there points

 

I like the idea that you need the whole nation to work together to capture a port and I should be like that.

 

We could improve the system based on the current system (gold require to purchase the flag)

At the moment, we have expensive port, and cheap port all over the map but this system doesn't prevent big nation to roll over smaller nation.

 

If we need to gather stuff for assault flag, the require resources must increase as the conquest port is further away from that nation capital.

For example: British creates an assault flag for port in Jamaica, the price should be dirty cheap because its so close to their capital. But if they create an assault flag for Fort Zoutman in Dutch territory, the price should be insanely high.

 

However, we also need a fake flag system in place as well (false intel)

 

Edit 1: we should keep the price on the flag as well, and make its price based on distance.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Nash

[Cpt Blackthorne]

• Building an assault fleet requires weapons, troops, transports and supplies (any player can add them to the project)

Any member of any nation? Meaning another nation can help add to ally projects? I hope so.

[CaptVonGunn]

I posted this last night in the other PB thread but this appears a better place for it.

 

 

   Port Battles...

 

          Should be a combination of BR and ship type limits...

              ie... Capitals    High BR to be determined BUT

                      no more then 3 1st Rates and 2 2nd rates total per side...   These ships should be RARE...  At Trafalgar when the 3 most power fleets in a world met there were only 7 1st rates and 4 2nd rates out of the total of 74 ships involved.

 

                      Normal Deep ports only 1 and 2 of each the rest 4th and 3rds

 

    Add in a Medium port(say the Shallows that all ships can actually dock at now) Where it is 2-3 4th rates and the rest are Frigate sized ships...

   Shallows as they were before you locked the ships smaller then a Brig out

 

 

       All Battles Open Water and Port also need some setup love...  in Port battles the 3 sections would be marked in battle at least to friendlies by a different flag so you can more easily track who is Squadron and who is not... Open world should have the same thing..  Allow Groups to sub divide in OW into Squadrons so that when battle starts they can move together... Remember in a naval battle you had lookouts and officers keeping track of these things.. the captain wasn't doing it all by himself.

 

       Just a few ideas... Thanks 

 

  

   Port Battles...

 

          Should be a combination of BR and ship type limits...

              ie... Capitals    High BR to be determined BUT

                      no more then 3 1st Rates and 2 2nd rates total per side...   These ships should be RARE...  At Trafalgar when the 3 most power fleets in a world met there were only 7 1st rates and 4 2nd rates out of the total of 74 ships involved.

 

                      Normal Deep ports only 1 and 2 of each the rest 4th and 3rds

 

    Add in a Medium port(say the Shallows that all ships can actually dock at now) Where it is 2-3 4th rates and the rest are Frigate sized ships...

   Shallows as they were before you locked the ships smaller then a Brig out

 

 

       All Battles Open Water and Port also need some setup love...  in Port battles the 3 sections would be marked in battle at least to friendlies by a different flag so you can more easily track who is Squadron and who is not... Open world should have the same thing..  Allow Groups to sub divide in OW into Squadrons so that when battle starts they can move together... Remember in a naval battle you had lookouts and officers keeping track of these things.. the captain wasn't doing it all by himself.

 

       Just a few ideas... Thanks 

[Guest]

As I remember from literature ports have been attacked from two sides in order to gain the chance of success.

 

Firstly troops were landed at the coast far away from the enemy port. Then the troops started attacking the enemy town from the backside and/or blew up the enemy fortresses by using explosives. After killing the fortresses the fleet entered/attacked the enemy port from the water side.

 

Land troops were mostly commanded by a high skilled lieutenant of either Navy or Marines.

 

Would be awesome if upcoming PB mechanics would allow this practice.