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Propsed New Open world Battle Mechanics


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I've posted this elsewhere on the forums but the more i think about it the more i really like the idea so I figured it deserved its own thread.

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Since the OS is a compressed battle reinforcements should join in a distance relative to the elapsed time from battle initialization.

 

Once a battle starts a battle circle should be placed on the OS. As the time from battle start elapses the size of the circle increases to indicate the relative elapsed time. When a ship enters the circle they are asked if they wish to join the battle.  If they join they are placed in the battle in a position relative to their position on the OS to the battle and a distance relative to the start time of the battle. If at any point a player refuses to join a battle when given the option they are locked from that battle.  This is to prevent re-positioning and then joining.

 

Follow with me if you will: (Visual aid linked)   https://drive.google...QlJaNl9ucTlUcTA

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Battle start:

  • This functions exactly as it did pre 9.7 patch.  Distance and wind direction of the initial tag are what matters. Everyone in the Red attack radius are pulled into battle relative to the the ship that tagged and the ship who was tagged.
  • Ships in the light red circle get the option to join the battle as reinforcement (starting a 3 minute sail at 10 knots from long range cannons at their relative positions to the battle). See Niels Terkildsen suggest here for further details (http://forum.game-la...nt-limit/page-3)

From battle start to 1 minute after:

  • Anyone sailing into the yellow circle will be given the option to join the battle
  • If they chose to join the will join at a 5 minute sail at 10 knots from long cannon range in their relative position to the battle on the OS.

1-2 mins after battle start:

  • After 1 minute the size and color of the circle on the OS increases to represent the elapsed time from battle initialization
  • Anyone sailing into the peach circle will be given the option to join the battle
  • If they chose to join they will join a 7 minute sail at 10 knots from long cannon range in their relative position to the battle on the OS.

2-3 mins after battle start:

  • After 2 minutes the size and color of the circle on the OS increases to represent the elapsed time from battle initialization
  • Anyone sailing into the yellow-green circle will be given the option to join the battle
  • If they chose to join they will join a 9 minute sail at 10 knots from long cannon range in their relative position to the battle on the OS.

3-4 mins after battle start

  • After 3 minutes the size and color of the circle on the OS increases to represent the elapsed time from battle initialization
  • Anyone sailing into the green circle will be given the option to join the battle
  • If they chose to join they will join a 11 minute sail at 10 knots from long cannon range in their relative position to the battle on the OS.

4-5 mins after battle start:

  • After 4 minutes the size and color of the circle OS increase to represent the elapsed time from battle initialization
  • Anyone sailing into the Blue circle will be given the option to join the battle
  • If they chose to join they will join a 13 minute sail at 10 knots from long cannon range in their relative position to the battle on the OS.

5 mins:

  • The battle closes and the Circle and swords disappear from the OS.

 

 

https://drive.google...QlJaNl9ucTlUcTA

 

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This system would allow for much more interesting and engaging battles.  It would allow friendly players from your nation to reinforce and help someone attacked alone in friendly waters.   It would turn your nations region into a safe zone for players due to the nature of sheer number of people who would be able to join and save the attacked player.   It would be far more realistic to what we currently have in game with 2 min windows and splitting fleets.   I just think its an all around better system to make this game tons of fun.   Image the mayhem that would ensue.

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This is the aproximatly the same circle zoomed out once:

https://drive.google...Y3JIdFJkSkRSMGM

 

Twice:

https://drive.google...U0ppWVRnZDJLWXM

 

Three times if you can even see it:

https://drive.google...aWxCZzc4Y1RlSXc

 

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Cap enemy mission join to 2 mins so people can PvE in relative safety.

 

Cap enemy join for all other engagements to 5 mins with the new system.

 

 

Thoughts?

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I got a private PM from dollet:

 

"Hi. Have mute on forum and only can answer PM.

Model with time-distanse of reinforcement relation was purposed early by one guy. I totally agree with yours and his thoughts about that.

But with grow circle ou are wrong. In game exist two cases, where it will provide only bad results.
1. Battle near port. Circle itself doesn't allow players who want join battle, actually do it, because they spawn inside circle. To join battle they must get outside, but they coul be ganked there or tagget or whatever. Specially slow OS ships, like SOLS.
2. Unsynhronized invulnerability timers of some group. Having invulnerability prevent you to get in fight, where your mate allready get sucked and you automatiocally won't be able to join him, bc you will be inside of Circle. Its logical paradox since you were close to him in OS, when battle begins, but will join battle far from him, if no one tag you before ofc."

 

My response.:

 

I think i may have conveyed the idea a bit wrong.  The expanding circle is more of a visual representation for players on the OS know how long the battle has been going on and can make an informed decision as to whether or not they would like to join.

 

It would also function as the point of join for any player newly sailing into the circle.  But if you popped out of port in the middle of a zone you would not be eliminated from joining the battle.  You would just join at whatever distance in relation to elapsed battle time and approximate direction.

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Like I said before, I really like the idea but I think the circle schouldn't increase in size. This would allow people to join the battle, who actually are too far away from the battle to reach it in time. It could stay visible and just change the colour or the colour of the swords changes then we don't need the circle at all. People who want to join should still have to sail to the battle like before. But, let's discuss :)

Edited by Cecil Selous
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Like I said before, I really like the idea but I think the circle schouldn't increase in size. This would allow people to join the battle, who actually are too far away from the battle to reach it in time. It could stay visible and just change the colour or the colour of the swords changes then we don't need the circle at all. People who want to join should still have to sail to the battle like before. But, let's discuss :)

 

This ^

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Like I said before, I really like the idea but I think the circle schouldn't increase in size. This would allow people to join the battle, who actually are too far away from the battle to reach it in time. It could stay visible and just change the colour or the colour of the swords changes then we don't need the circle at all. People who want to join should still have to sail to the battle like before. But, let's discuss :)

Meh.  I doesn't much matter to me if the battle gets larger or not.     As long as there is clear visual representation for the open world players at what point in the join they will be coming in.

 

The reason i chose to increase the circle size is because it would make it more difficult for late joiners to get there preferred positional join position by sailing around the circle before entering.   Increased circle size means a lot longer of a sail to get to the other side of the circle without entering it.  Increasing the size every minute also means people who may be trying to game the system and sail around for better wind may actually be within the circle once the size increases, forcing them to decide if they want to join then at whatever position they are at or not join the battle at all.

 

Honestly the more i think about it the more i like the size increasing.   It is a built in anti-exploit mechanic.

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Like I said before, I really like the idea but I think the circle schouldn't increase in size. This would allow people to join the battle, who actually are too far away from the battle to reach it in time. It could stay visible and just change the colour or the colour of the swords changes then we don't need the circle at all. People who want to join should still have to sail to the battle like before. But, let's discuss :)

 

Sure.

Actually one of the issues, which I tested is to bypass the circle itself to gain position and this is a less than desirable side effect of the new setup.

I would, taking on the original suggestion, step the timers with shrinking circle marker instead of expanding.

 

No idea how hard on the code it would become if there are a dozen battles open in an immediate area.

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I prefer Neils' original suggestion, which is more straightforward: you must be in the tag or within something like 3x the radius of the tag, otherwise you don't get in. No late joiners.

 

 

I think the even simpler fix is:

 

* Set the join timer to 15 10 seconds.

* Set the join radius to 3x the radius of the tag zone (huge join radius)

 

Done. Anyone in the tag zone gets dragged in and anyone remotely near the tag zone has the option to join but has to act fast.

 

Should be easy to test because it's just 2 tweaks on the existing system.

Edited by Slamz
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Well, since you opened up this thread Babble, I will also re-post my proposal in here. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13167-short-announcement-on-the-15x-br-reinforcement-limit/?view=findpost&p=245635

 

How about make the circle grow at a slow, but exponential rate, say 0.1 m/s2?

After 2 minutes the circle would be growing at 11 knots, you can close the battle then.

Then we can also get rid of the 1.5 rule.

 

See the previous thread for more arguments.

 

I got a private PM from dollet:

 

"Hi. Have mute on forum and only can answer PM.

Model with time-distanse of reinforcement relation was purposed early by one guy. I totally agree with yours and his thoughts about that.

But with grow circle ou are wrong. In game exist two cases, where it will provide only bad results.
1. Battle near port. Circle itself doesn't allow players who want join battle, actually do it, because they spawn inside circle. To join battle they must get outside, but they coul be ganked there or tagget or whatever. Specially slow OS ships, like SOLS.
2. Unsynhronized invulnerability timers of some group. Having invulnerability prevent you to get in fight, where your mate allready get sucked and you automatiocally won't be able to join him, bc you will be inside of Circle. Its logical paradox since you were close to him in OS, when battle begins, but will join battle far from him, if no one tag you before ofc."

 

My response.:

 

I think i may have conveyed the idea a bit wrong.  The expanding circle is more of a visual representation for players on the OS know how long the battle has been going on and can make an informed decision as to whether or not they would like to join.

 

It would also function as the point of join for any player newly sailing into the circle.  But if you popped out of port in the middle of a zone you would not be eliminated from joining the battle.  You would just join at whatever distance in relation to elapsed battle time and approximate direction.

 

I thought about joining at distance, or joining after an elapsed time. Those things all suffer from 2 problems:

  1. Within the battle people are moving about, thus the actual battle position will no longer reflect the open world position. Having people drop in after a time will lead to problems.
  2. Moving people back or forth needs to take land into account or they would pop in on land. This is just a pain to implement in an objective manner.

Hence the slowly growing circle. You simply know where you are going to spawn in and because of the growth you'll not be in the middle of the engagement.

 

As for ports, you could argue that those folks do enter a queue for a time, say the same time the battle has been open. The port itself won't be moving. :)

But I can not say how hard it would be to implement. If it can be implemented, I'm in favor.

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I don't really like 2 minute windows because it allows people on the outside to re-position themselves before going in. Outside, we were chasing you; inside you are surrounded because the people who missed the tag used their 2 minutes to go north, south, east and west of the bubble. Anywhere you run, you run into us now.

 

My "10 second timer, long range join" solution fixes this too. You'll only have 10 seconds to turn or modify your position before you must click in or miss the chance.

 

Long range join distances will make it easy to get in but you-are-where-you-are. No time to change it.

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I think I like the 15 second join with the large circle. It just needs one addition:

  • if you hit the circle you get dragged in at that position.

Right now the popular ganking tactic is basically "overshooting" the target within the timer. A 15 second blockade wouldn't be too much to interfere with regular shipping and disable the "overshooting" tactic.

 

The only disadvantage I can think of is that 15 seconds might be considered a short time. In that case maybe we could add "stances" like "neutral" and "hostile" to indicate whether we want to get dragged into large circles.

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Why not just increase the 'catchment' circle as slamz mentioned. make it much larger.

Give catchment players the choice to join or not.

only 5-10 second to choose.

No join after battle start, for those outside catchment.

Positional start for all ships, based on their position at initial tag.

Multi-tag in same area joins same instance.

Cannon start loaded.

 

Your in port Tough!  You are in ship just at anchor - you can join.

 

We must deal with the scale/time difference issue between OW and battle instance.

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Shrinking join battle circle proportionally during the 2 minutes would do the trick.

 

Would surely limit the navigate around the circle to the ooooother side to enter ;)

Shrinking would lead to unwanted placement within the engagement.

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The battles should be open as long as they last. If I have a ship and pass a battle, I should be able to join.

Its too weird to close battles. I wonder why you did it in the first place?

I like this idea but I'm not positive it wouldn't run into a flaw at this stage of the game.

Currently there are few if any battle fronts in NA. To find pvp I think most players simply sail to the enemy capital port. I agree these areas should be dangerous to assault and the resulting build up of enemy defensive ships could be naturally very large. I think the problem is that the game doesn't offer very many ways for the attacker to find other players than to sail into these dangerous home waters.

If the game mechanics were changed to generate war fronts or ways to find pvp other than enemy home ports think your method would be the best.

Edited by Bach
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The battles should be open as long as they last. If I have a ship and pass a battle, I should be able to join.

Its too weird to close battles. I wonder why you did it in the first place?

Obviously because of the massive scale / time difference between ow and battle instance. That is why there is currently a timer as a simple way to keep battles localised. Edited by Carljcharles
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Becourse of the scale of the map and the lack of players, many distress calls are in the 3-5 min. area. Thats why 2 min is too little to come to traders aid. 15 seconds, BR-rules - all that make it relatively safe to "gank" as you call it. Nobody will be able to help.

 

The ganking-complainers began whining when the 5 min rule where abandoned. Now it has become a problem and the suggested solution is lesser joining times, lesser radius etc. that can only enhance "ganking". 

 

Please put 5 min back.

Edited by fox2run
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