Slamz Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) Currently, upgrades do not have durability. Permanent ones go down with the ship but regulars just stay with you, unless you mess up and leave them on a ship that only has 1 durability. 6 months from now, we will all just be sitting on a pile of our favorite golden upgrades. You will actually vendor junk exceptional extra pumps because you will already have one on every ship and another at each outpost for spare and they're just cluttering up your inventory. What if regular upgrades had.......10 durability? You lose the ship, you lose a durability on your ship but also on your regular mods. Eventually you will have to acquire more. Edited March 8, 2016 by Slamz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragger Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 No, only because to craft them atm takes as many notes for each as it does to build a whole ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrion Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 No, this game needs more parts that allow people to make progress and not just constantly struggle against upkeep, not fewer. It's already ruined by people insisting that everything must be limited by grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamz Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) No, this game needs more parts that allow people to make progress and not just constantly struggle against upkeep, not fewer. It's already ruined by people insisting that everything must be limited by grind. What do you propose progress consist of 6 months from now when everyone has a full load of exceptional upgrades and "exceptional" is just standard? (And why do you suppose anyone would ever use anything less than Exceptional? Crafters will be able to make them no problem.) "Progress" is a silly carrot to put in front of people when you know you can't keep moving it out. It only works in MMORPGs that can constantly increase levels and stats. I'm not sure that'll work in this game unless we start using fantasy elements. Do you propose that we keep raising the bar to keep this progress going? Or are you prepared for all "progress" to end in a few months? Edited March 8, 2016 by Slamz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stix Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Yeah I here ya slamz, end game is looking so boring. It won't be long and there will be no where to advance to, no character progression, nothing to strive for other than cheap meaningless self imposed goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrion Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) What do you propose progress consist of 6 months from now when everyone has a full load of exceptional upgrades and "exceptional" is just standard? (And why do you suppose anyone would ever use anything less than Exceptional? Crafters will be able to make them no problem.) "Progress" is a silly carrot to put in front of people when you know you can't keep moving it out. It only works in MMORPGs that can constantly increase levels and stats. I'm not sure that'll work in this game unless we start using fantasy elements. Do you propose that we keep raising the bar to keep this progress going? Or are you prepared for all "progress" to end in a few months? Nope, that problem only crops up when you make progress only about getting stronger rather than about specializing to suit your play style and continuous adaptation as your style and the game evolve. Also the idea that forcing people to constantly grind just to stay where they are is somehow a valid replacement for a progress system is just false. It assumes that building infinite needs into a game is infinitely entertaining, but if that was the case then all previous games with that philosophy would still be running full force, which obviously isn't the case. Games need to change and grow to maintain a playerbase for many years. There is no way to get around that, and it isn't a bad thing either. There are no systems that remain entertaining forever Edited March 8, 2016 by Aetrion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamz Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Nope, that problem only crops up when you make progress only about getting stronger rather than about specializing to suit your play style and continuous adaptation as your style and the game evolve. It's really about making sure there's an RvR game and economic warfare and not just 500 of us sitting in fully decked out 1st rates staring at each other because ships literally do not matter and therefore neither do ports and there's no reason to fight except "for funsies". This is why I found Planetside to get boring fast, too. There's just no point in the war because nobody ever loses anything. It's basically just a pointless arena match on slightly varied terrain. Doesn't matter how fun the combat is if it's just the same thing day after day with no meaningful goal (not just "points" but something the players can actually feel). I hope for this game to have more depth than that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrion Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) I don't see how losing something and then grinding to get it back adds depth to a game. You're still just doing the same thing over and over, there is still no actual meaningful reason to do it, and specifically in the case of this game the activities you need to do to get new ships are a thousand times more brainless than the actual fights. Depth comes from being able to play the game in many different complimentary ways and having to make hard decisions, not in cluttering up a singular endgame idea with a lot of repetitive extra steps. The whole "Everyone will just hang out in a first rate" to me is the real indication of lack of depth, because it means that there is no real reason to use anything else other than simply not being able to afford it. That doesn't indicate to me that people have a lot of choices or decisions to make in the game, more than simply getting hit over the head with a bunch of boring grind with a very obvious and one sided goal they need to shoot for to be at the top of their game. Edited March 8, 2016 by Aetrion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamz Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Adding an economic grind does add depth, namely because you would like to not do it, and therefore it adds a reason to PvP with a mind towards tactics and strategy. With no loss, "zerg" strategy is always fine. No real reason to think too hard about anything you're doing because it really doesn't matter anyway. But if sinking you means you have to go off and grind for an hour, well, now you have real incentive to think about this fight -- and maybe the war in general. Creating an interesting balance between pressures that make you want to go to war and pressures that make you not want to lose is critical to making this game be fun and interesting long term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrion Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Incentivising people through punishment rather than reward doesn't make for a fun game system, especially when one side HAS to lose for the other to win, because it means you can get punished despite having done nothing wrong at all. Also, I just don't agree that the cheesy ganky tactics you get when people try use "tactics and strategy" to avoid ever losing a fight actually make a game more fun. It sucks all the skill out of the fights if everyone just tries to maneuver for a gank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack Morgan Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 A real problem with games nowadays is a false belief that grinding, be it xp or gear, somehow adds depth or improves the playing experience. It unfortunately serves as a crutch for many game developers as a way to keep people busy while they try to figure out the next time sink to keep everyone doing that. I'm not even a fan of the current mod system because it forces people to get certain mods to be competitive in end game pvp. I WANT people to be encouraged to pvp not fear it even more because they don't want to spend the next three days collecting gold and labor hours to replace mods. All this would do is encourage people to sail around in gank groups even more. People already complain about the game being a grind, let's not make it even worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doschichis Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 What about you can keep your modules if you surrender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 No, only because to craft them atm takes as many notes for each as it does to build a whole ship. this: dura on upgrade is a viable option if upgrades do not need crafting notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I have yet to find a single exceptional upgrade. They are still very rarely sols on the market. I think you are.grossly exaggerating with 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint George Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 No. Upgrades are already lost when your last ship durability is gone. Upgrades are part of the ship, and thus can be repaired as often as the ship. So to consider them separately in terms of durability isn't realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skully Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I'm not in favor of regurgitating old topics, but the 6 month marker is coming up. Who is not yet stuffed with Gold upgrades? (/ tired of fishing?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallsOfSteel Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Exceptional on loss becomes mastercraft, mastercraft to fine etc. I think it has merit and will make captains load up their best all the time even on first rate block of flats 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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