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Entry to missions! Your opinion needed.

  

363 members have voted

  1. 1. Vote for mission entry options

    • Allow entry only to enemies - solving pvp exploit
      69
    • Keep entry for all (increasing the assist XP) - providing more opportunities to defend
      294


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I can't decide, they both have their pros and contras.

I certainly would put a timer of one minute.

After that minute, ennemie were not really chasing but they just take profit of an open instance where they know there is only one player with a certain ship.

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Captains.. 

 

Currently missions allow entry for all players (enemies and friendlies). We know that it is causing a lot of problems for many. 

We would like to explain the rationale for entry and explain how this feature was changing in the past. 

 

1) Initially missions were only for solo play and you could only enter them alone - players have requested the ability to enter as a group

2) We added the option to enter mission as a group to allow better group interactions.

 

Then we encountered an unforeseen problem.

PvP players have started to use the missions as safe harbors. When chased by the enemy - a player could enter a mission and hide in it totally disappearing from the map escaping a chase. Problem was excacerbated by the fact that a group of 6 players could take 18 missions as a group around one town providing a huge safety net allowing the opportunity to hide almost anywhere if pursued by the superior enemy. PvP suffered as a result. 

 

3) To solve this problem we allowed entry into missions for everyone during normal 5 minute timers, providing more PvP opportunities on the PvP server and at the same time providing your friendly forces to come to help you in bad situations. 

 

People are unhappy because of low assist awards - when your friendlies enter, they help to destroy your target (fulfilling your mission) but limiting your xp because they take your damage away. 

 

There are two options currently that can solve both problems. 

  • Close the entry for non-group members but keep the entry for enemies - limiting the pvp exploit
  • Allow entry for non-group members, but increase mission rewards and assist XP - providing options for friendlies to reinforce 

Please share your opinion on the subject. 

i think that the missions should be closed to non group members because more often than not a friendly will join and either A: jump in ahead of you and board the target which you intend to capture or B: deliberately destroy the target as you intend to capture just so that you don't get the ship, many times i find a trader carrying contraband and as many as 7+ people have joined and begin trying to capture the Trader, i sail a big ship that is not easy to turn and most times cutters or snows can easily jump in on the boarding before i can even get into position to start the boarding and thus i lose out on the capture and on any loot i would have gotten

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My main concern with this is why does the pve server get dictated to by the responses form the pvp servers exactly, it is not pvp. Split the vote, pvp or pve because the reasoning for the vote differs according to the server.

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It totally is siding with the PvP crowd.

PvP crowd encounters problem, PvE crowd gets to pay the price as solution. The same thing happened with fleets and it is getting REAL old.

Lookk at the poll. There's an option to cater to the PvP crowd and a compromise option. The returning to the old missions isn't even there!

I agree to a point, but that problem is one that goes both ways, and this has always been a primarily Pvp focused game.

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I have the feeling that, once more, the pvp will screw pve rules.... :angry:

 

And the funniest part, it will solve nothing for them either.... Looks like a good way to screw one of the few solo features on pvp servers as well.

 

Oh well, i don't care anymore about you screwing pvp servers, can we have option one on pve server? Thx...

 

BTW, the correct solution was option one with this added : opening mission if an ennemy actually enter the battle, thus allowing reinforcements to come only if needed.

 

So how does this screw the PVE rules again?

 

On both servers you have the problem of uninvited "guests" in your missions. For the PVE server it is more of an aggravation to game play (solo missions), but on the PVP server there is an exploit. So which takes precedent?

 

Even if option 2 is chosen you can still have your group and you can still solo mission, maybe just sail away from the capitol and set up mission in a less populated port.

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So how does this screw the PVE rules again?

 

On both servers you have the problem of uninvited "guests" in your missions. For the PVE server it is more of an aggravation to game play (solo missions), but on the PVP server there is an exploit. So which takes precedent?

 

Even if option 2 is chosen you can still have your group and you can still solo mission, maybe just sail away from the capitol and set up mission in a less populated port.

I do not think you got the point, you literally can not say a mission is solo if you are not the only one who can/does enter it so where is this solo exactly? The only "aggravation" to game play is when you log into a pve server but get met by pvp game mechanics, and pvp exploits nerfing pve game play. I get the world if more full of irate but ultimately futile people whose only outlet is competing against others in a digital format, some people though are not so anal.

Edited by Valetudin Arian

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Captains.. 

 

Currently missions allow entry for all players (enemies and friendlies). We know that it is causing a lot of problems for many. 

We would like to explain the rationale for entry and explain how this feature was changing in the past. 

 

1) Initially missions were only for solo play and you could only enter them alone - players have requested the ability to enter as a group

2) We added the option to enter mission as a group to allow better group interactions.

 

Then we encountered an unforeseen problem.

PvP players have started to use the missions as safe harbors. When chased by the enemy - a player could enter a mission and hide in it totally disappearing from the map escaping a chase. Problem was excacerbated by the fact that a group of 6 players could take 18 missions as a group around one town providing a huge safety net allowing the opportunity to hide almost anywhere if pursued by the superior enemy. PvP suffered as a result. 

 

3) To solve this problem we allowed entry into missions for everyone during normal 5 minute timers, providing more PvP opportunities on the PvP server and at the same time providing your friendly forces to come to help you in bad situations. 

 

People are unhappy because of low assist awards - when your friendlies enter, they help to destroy your target (fulfilling your mission) but limiting your xp because they take your damage away. 

 

There are two options currently that can solve both problems. 

  • Close the entry for non-group members but keep the entry for enemies - limiting the pvp exploit
  • Allow entry for non-group members, but increase mission rewards and assist XP - providing options for friendlies to reinforce 

Please share your opinion on the subject. 

 

To me I feel like option 1 doesn't really solve the problem, it will just shift the exploit. Instead of having groups hiding in missions  to avoid pvp, you'll have groups camping missions for wounded ships to exit. I realize you have an invulnerability timer...so maybe it wouldn't be so bad. My vote would still be for option 2.

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This is not siding with the pvper. What was happening before was "Pvp" guys were sailing in an area looking for easy targets. If one of those targets got his friends together to go punish the pvper then the pvper would suddenly vanish into one of his missions and disappear. It was silly and unfair to everyone.

 

Yeah, except if the PVP chasers out-BR the player(s) heading in to the mission. If it's ONLY open to enemies, it means friendlies can't help me not get ganked.

 

At the same time, it's really annoying when I am fighting a single cutter in my admiralty mission and 3 friendlies come in.

 

I would say the best option, in my opinion, is to ONLY allow group-mates in to an admiralty mission, but keep the 5 minute timer in them, and if PVPers join the enemy, open it up for another 5 minutes for friendly reinforcements only.

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This is not siding with the pvper. What was happening before was "Pvp" guys were sailing in an area looking for easy targets. If one of those targets got his friends together to go punish the pvper then the pvper would suddenly vanish into one of his missions and disappear. It was silly and unfair to everyone.

Your not using the correct english, "everyone" would mean that everyone was affected but how did it affect the pve server exactly where some members of your "everyone" are playing? There was no reason for the change in pve but it happened anyway which is more of a detriment to the pve style of play than pvp.

Edited by Valetudin Arian

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I think Wind's solution is simple and elegant. Large groups can generate large numbers of mission instances to escape into, so just bump up the timer for large groups.

It addresses the exploit in question quite nicely.

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It totally is siding with the PvP crowd.

PvP crowd encounters problem, PvE crowd gets to pay the price as solution. The same thing happened with fleets and it is getting REAL old.

Lookk at the poll. There's an option to cater to the PvP crowd and a compromise option. The returning to the old missions isn't even there!

 

PvE server?

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If people are using the mission mechanic as an exploit, I do believe this needs to be fixed.  However if enemies can enter the mission, I sure hope more friendlies can enter it as well.  It just seems like the fairest of the solutions in my opinion.  I would also be rather pleased if assist XP was boosted.  I do a lot of missions with my friends, and I don't mind helping them on missions.  However, it would make the grind go a bit easier if there was an assist boost. 

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If the mechanic stays as it is I for one am done with the game, as it is, I have stopped playing waiting for the fix you have promised was coming for weeks. This games community took a nose dive since it became available on Steam, and there are many players just waiting to screw over others when there is nothing to stop them. Allowing this to remain you effectively invite and endorse griefing from players within a players own nation.

 

If I chose to take on npc to grind xp, gold, or to cap ships I really do not want others to butt in and deprive me of the xp, gold and very often the prize too, I do not need uninvited "help". If I do take on larger groups of NPC I am quite capable of doing so with a group of players of my choosing.

 

You have been claiming that it was a bug that non grouped players were able to join an instance; one of the reasons I decided to buy my own copy of the game. There are plenty of pvp opportunities to fight the enemy in opposing nations, I should not have to deal with players from my own faction griefing me due to broken or poor mechanics.

Pretty much this for me as well.  Having lost ships to jerks from my own nation jumping my fights on a PVE server...well if i wanted the hassle of dealing with these types i would be on PVP server.

 

What in the world is the point of a PVE server if you allow this griefing to continue? If this is not changed this really just becomes a haven for griefers to hang out on the PVE servers and mess with people till they are driven out of the game.

 

It is completely safe to grief people that just want to play against the AI.  Nothing you can do against these people other than ram them costing our own exp and fun.  If we want to play in a group it is super easy to do. Why make it hard to play solo? Just causing issues where there should not be any by allowing people to grief how others want to play.

 

You have many PVP servers...let the people that want to play solo have there one safe place where they can not be griefed.

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would it be possible to have them closed for friendlies unless someone joins the other side. that way you could get reinforcements and still account for pvp.

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It was a bug for a friendly entry. We can eliminate it tomorrow as we already fixed it in the dev version - the downside for locking entry only for groups = it will allow enemies to attack you with no chances for reinforcements 

Why do you keep talking like this is for ALL servers? PVE we can not "defend" from griefers jumping our missions.  SHould very clearly have a way to close our battles to our own group members only on PVE servers.

Edited by Darmand

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I really like Wind's idea about a timer after a group enters a battle to allow any enemies they might be running from to chase them into the mission. My only addition to his idea would be to limit the mission to only the player or players that entered it in the beginning from their respective nation. That way, if I'm running around doing missions with a couple friends, we don't have to worry about other people from our nation crashing the party, because they would be locked out, unless by some chance an enemy player would happen to join the battle. In that case, the battle would instantly become a regular PvP battle with a five minute closing timer to allow friendly players to come to our aid.

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I seem to recall Pirates of the Burning Sea solving this problem by granting the mission owner some kind of reinforcement flare that he could fire off if he needed help or got ganked by a rival faction. This was visible on the map and allowed non-grouped friendlies to enter. Can't we have something like that? Enemies and group members can enter at any time, but un-grouped friendlies can only enter once reinforcements have been requested?

 

If such a system would be difficult to implement, I would be fine with having one of the poll options as a temporary fix. However, I don't think either of the currently offered fixes will please everyone. PvPers want their allies to be able to enter and help them against other PvPers, and PvEers don't want to share loot/ gold/ xp. I feel like the current loot system is a large part of that second problem. The mission owner ought to be able to decide who gets captured ships, etc. 

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Can't go wrong with more group options. Given only the two poll choices, I vote for more xp for groupmates. I would actually rather leave the system as-is than implement the idea of closing it. Let people help if they want to -- it's kind of a way to powerlevel guildmates.

 

 

Alternate idea #1:

Scale mission difficulty based on group strength and then give everyone the mission XP.

 

So solo I get 2000g, 50 xp and fight 1 Cutter.

 

If I'm in a group size 4 with a group strength of 200, then the mission will be group strength 200 and we will all get 2000g and 50xp in addition to all the extra XP from killing all those additional ships. It will be harder but better.

 

In this solution, late joiners would be allowed but only under existing rules: they can qualify for regular assist rewards but only the people who were in the group at the start share the mission reward.

 

 

Alternate idea #2:

This would be lame but for sake of brainstorming, missions could also exist solely in ports. You pick up the mission and spawn straight into it from the port. That would feel really canned but would also solve the problem.

Edited by Slamz

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As a short time fix I voted for option 2, at least for pvp server. But real answer for me is an option for a player to decide if he wants help in order to stop griefing, applied ASAP. Plus added option for those in "circle of death" to decide whether they want to be dragged into battle, also ASAP. Why it needs to be done fast? Coz biggest problem is around most crowded areas - capitols. You know, places where new players start. And both griefing and autodrag without any warning ain`t nice - especially when someone decides to go yollo on those big enemy fleet randomly visiting your home waters when you finally managed to drag that demasted trader you were allowed to capture without interference so close to the port :P

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vocal minority once again...

 

First it was claimed that this was a bug when in fact the missions being open to all was planned as stated in the first post.

 

I would dearly like to know how the determination was made that a large number of players were abusing the locked missions to escape and that this change was required in the first place?  I don't see how you could have any data to back up this decision apart from "so and so saw it.."

 

Even a 30-60 second wait to enter your mission would have solved that... 

Edited by SKurj (ex JW)

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Honestly though, if you don't want randoms in your missions and NPC battles, DONT STAY NEAR A CAPITAL!!! If you relocate to anywhere else on the map you will find there will be 99% less uninvited helpers, if you can't be bothered moving away from an area that is full of newbies and complain that they get in the way when the solution is to simply head to a remote area you should not be complaining. Port royal is a cesspool of cutters jumping on everything that has crossed swords, solution: moved to a free port near Mexico, no newbie cutters, no ship stealing and reason to whine because I, like many others chose the simple obvious solution to get out of the capital and not just complain about. If you still don't wish to leave your capital then you deserve to deal with the cutter army as there is a whole map to be populated not just 7 cites.

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