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mad_blind_eric

How to Deal with Under Crewed Penalties( ? )

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Hey

 

i know there is a topic below about this penalty being too high. But this isnt really about that and i didnt want to Hijack their discussion so i made a new one. Also this is more a question than a "review" But if a moderator wants to cut and paste this into that then feel free.

 

So I did a bunch of searches but couldn't really find the answer I'm looking for. It could be buried deep in another thread though I don't know, hence the new post.

 

Anyway.

 

I finally ambled in a very ambient way to "level 3". Thought id give the free Niagra a try, its under crewed but not by much ( like about 80% ), and in days of Yore it wouldn't have mattered so much. Oh dear it does now :)

 

So while I should be in a Brig, I don't *have* a Brig but I do *have* a Niagra. So as I see it these are my options

 

1. Buy a Brig ( don't have the cash currently and I would prefer to spend the money on crafting mats or modules than a ship for one rank )

2. Capture a Brig  ( if I can find one - but doable )

3. Stay in Yacht

4. Sail Niagra and suck it up

5. Sail Niagra and figure out a way to take the edge of the penalties so it is useable if not perfect.

 

I'm looking for advice on number 5 really. As I wont be playing til later today I thought I might get some ideas in the meantime. The sailing penalties are ok its the gunnery that's the problem.

 

I have Green Power Monkeys and Extra Hammocks installed and Class 6 Mediums guns. Are there any other modules that might help? Perhaps not so obvious ones where there is a side effect that would help. Also if I installed lighter calibre guns would that help, as the base is lower to begin with and the penalty is a %. Or is the penalty a fixed one so it wouldn't make much of a difference.

 

There's the rub of it. Thanks for any advice.

 

 

 

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I wouldn't bother with extra upgrades, the best way to sail it under crewed, and possibly full crew as well would be running down wind getting broadsides off as you go, it is very fast so if you need to get away you can. It also turns better down wind than tacking so do this.

 

I don't know why but alot of people say not to undercrew ships, I don't see the problem on a 5 dura ship which you are going to pass up on the next level, I crewed a Frigate on 150 for the last section of getting the XP for LT. Commander and the only thing is it reacts alot slower than normal and takes longer to reload, but against smaller ships you will win and put out much much more damage meaning more money and levels, just my opinion though.

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Any think below 80%  means i can shoot  maybe 3 board sides in your 1. some times even more.      It is all about how fast you can reload.  

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I never understood why people are desperate to sail in the next ship under crewed.

 

There is a penalty as you wont be able to fight the ship properly. Ships of this era relied 100% on manpower. There were no machines or automation. Therefore undercrew penalty should be harsh.

 

Solution. Either suck it up, or sail a fully crewed ship.

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Well if I was 50% under crewed then you would have a point..  but at around 80% I would say its worth investigating ways to reduce that down somewhat to what would be more reasonable levels of penalty. The positives of using this ship over the current yacht are huge. Given that I have it and don't have a Brig currently.

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I'm looking for advice on number 5 really. As I wont be playing til later today I thought I might get some ideas in the meantime. The sailing penalties are ok its the gunnery that's the problem.

 

There's several upgrades that can help you out when undercrewing a ship. 

 

Reload Mods;

- Powder Monkey

- Improved Magazine Access

- Rum Rations.

Maneuvrability;

- Rum Rations

- Lightweight Ropes and Blocks

- Optimized Rudder

- Turning Trim

 

Overall;

- Extra Hammocks

 

I would personally prioritize it like this; 

1. Powder Monkeys. (Regular)

2. Optimized Rudder. (Permanent)

3. Rum Rations. (Regular)

4. Turning Trim. (Permanent)

5. Improved Magazine Access. (Permanent)

6. Lightweight Ropes and Blocks. (Regular)

7. Extra Hammocks.

 

Powder Monkey's and Optimized Rudder has no negatives while providing you with a nice little bonus to reload and turn speed (2 most important things for combat with AI ships imo.) 

Rum rations provides a bonus to reload while also improving sail/yard management (Maneuvrability). It has a negative to accuracy but as long as you are fighting AI ships that negative shouldn't make any difference. 

Turning Trim provides you with a decent bonus to turn speed but makes your ship slightly slower as well. 

Improved Magazine Access provides the exact same bonus as Powder Monkey's and has no negative. The only difference between the 2 is that Powder Monkey's is a regular mod while Improved Magazine Access is a permanent mod.

Lightweight ropes and blocks has no negatives and provides a nice bonus to sail/yard management. 

Extra Hammocks is awesome but in smaller ships the % bonus to crew size really doesn't make any difference. 

 

This setup will make your undercrewed ship less of a pain to sail around in. 

 

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Ahoy Eric, here's my advice.  Take your Niagara, under-crewed, and go trader-hunting.  Capture a bunch of traders and sell the prizes and their cargoes.  The Niagara, even under-crewed, is well-suited for that task.  Once you've saved up enough money, buy a decent Snow.

 

I say buy a Snow because a properly crewed Snow is a totally different beast than an undercrewed Niagara.  It's well-armed and agile, and an absolute joy to sail.  Especially if you know your manual sails.  Some people sail nothing but undercrewed ships, and they never get to experience the sheer delight of a fast, responsive ship.

 

I also wish that we had more options to deal with insufficient manpower on a ship.  The Devs are aware of this issue, but they are a small team and can only work on so many things at once.  

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You shouldn't be looking to buy a Brig, Buy a Snow like Prince of Whales said. I am also puzzled to as what you did with your gold if you can't even afford to buy a Brig?. What you're suggesting is that we change a very tested mechanic just because you own a Niagara and not a Brig and you can't crew it properly. 80%  means you are missing one whole fifth of a full crew of what would normally be 155 Crew, that means you are missing gun crew, which is represented in your longer reload times.

 

The whole point the crew penalty exists IMO is because it makes Grape even more useful AND makes it harder to undercrew bigger ships to farm AI. It seems fine with me tbh, just get a Snow and you'll see how well it performs, it's a great ship, good luck :)

Edited by LeeUK

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You shouldn't be looking to buy a Brig, Buy a Snow like Prince of Whales said. I am also puzzled to as what you did with your gold if you can't even afford to buy a Brig?.

The answer to that is easy, start crafting, and I dont mean crafting ships, even crafting mods for your own use is a huge money sink.

Edited by Hexcaliber

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Ahoy Eric, here's my advice.  Take your Niagara, under-crewed, and go trader-hunting.  Capture a bunch of traders and sell the prizes and their cargoes.  The Niagara, even under-crewed, is well-suited for that task.  Once you've saved up enough money, buy a decent Snow.

 

I say buy a Snow because a properly crewed Snow is a totally different beast than an undercrewed Niagara.  It's well-armed and agile, and an absolute joy to sail.  Especially if you know your manual sails.  Some people sail nothing but undercrewed ships, and they never get to experience the sheer delight of a fast, responsive ship.

 

I also wish that we had more options to deal with insufficient manpower on a ship.  The Devs are aware of this issue, but they are a small team and can only work on so many things at once.  

 

This.

 

Turning trim and Optimized Rudder will make a Snow dance on a dime and give you change (if you learn manual sails)

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Brig or Snow - doesn't really matter ( I didn't notice they were the same crew - the end result is the same though. I have a Niagra I don't have either of them )

 

@LeeUk I didn't suggest changing the mechanic. In fact I explicitly didn't post this in the thread about the penalty being too high as that wasn't what I was interested in. I was after advice on how to offset the penalty using in game options that others may have thought about that I hadn't. Especially as the penalty would only last for a single level.

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Want shorter reloads even when under-crewed with all the suggestions these other awesome Captains have given?

Use Medium Cannons :) fastest reload of them all, only by a little aswell but it helps. It's also good for capturing ships since you know, slightly faster fire rate.

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Rank 1 to 2: basic cutter

Rank 3: Snow at 100% Or merc/navy brig 120/130 ~90%.

Rank 4: Mercury or Navy brig at 100%

Rank 5: Surprise 80ish % 200/240

Rank 6: Frigate 90ish% 250/280

Rank 7: trincomale at 100% or Connie 350/450

My way of sailing

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i use to sail a victory before it came on steam with about 55% crew madeit work i mostly stayed in crew focus sailing when i was turning and sorts i just delt with the slow reload bonus so long as i could turn alright and get gone when needed worked perfectly

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Hi, had the same problem. My only real ability that was lacking was the reload time so I armed with the biggest caronades and once fired I would gain distance to reload then re engage. Then when at 1st Leut you can S turn behind a ship and just about get each broadside reloaded.

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Just in case anyone reading this is in the same situation I was in... I ended up managing with Niagra til I managed to amass about 60k and then bought a basic NPC built Snow.

 

In the end I wasn't able to overcome the penalty enough and decided to just fork out the cash even though it was just for one level.

 

Without the penalty I have a ship that sails better, shoots faster ( even though its single reload output is lower per broadside ) - I don't know..  its just more fun I guess.

 

Cheers

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Well, historically it was certainly possible to use a ship of war effectively with an undermanned crew. Sickness and wounds always kept some men off duty, as well as a shortage of seamen. In these cases crew would serve one side of the ship at a time, and move between them. This saved having a whole side of the ship doing nothing while the other fought undermanned.

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I think the devs already taken that into account ( unfit crew numbers ).

 

100% means 100% fit for duty, same as 0 in combat means 0 fit for combat. It is an abstract measure.

 

Personally the penalties should be different for Sailing, Gunnery and Survival ( maybe they are already! ) and be mutually exclusive in anything below 80%.

I would increase the penalty slightly.

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Something just occurred to me, and now I feel silly for not noticing it earlier:

 

What happened to the crew dividend of carronades? Carronades require much smaller crews than long guns. I can't imagine that a Surprise or Belle Poule with all carronade armament would require the extravagant crew complement of 240. 

 

Perhaps using carronades should reduce the under-strength penalty to something approaching the next lowest rank. Currently we have a rank where the only new ship you can sail is Cerberus, with 200 crew. What if those 200 crew could also effectively handle a carronade-armed Renommee or Surprise?

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Interesting thought especially with the exclusiveness if ever would be considered. Gunnery with carronades would be on par while sailing would be sub par.

Given the mutually exclusive you either focus one or the other with excess penalty/lack of over one another.

 

Good one sir.

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I wonder if the Crew Space trim on a crafted ship would help with reducing the undercrewed penalties? And if yo, by how much?

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iam using a Conni since Master and comander (rank6) made the 20k to postcaptain (7) in 1 1/2  days alredy gathered another 4k exp. how i do this? get a group keep dancing with your ship, and unload your guns. oh also hunt down 3rdrates, they are  exp pinatas, 400 for a kill (even with 250 crew i was able to get the kill in most cases 24pd ftw) and you get another 400-600 for the damage you do.

 

basicly what iam saying is, get a group play with em for a while, or search for a clan and ask em to help you out. this game is definitly not a singly person game.

 

I wonder if the Crew Space trim on a crafted ship would help with reducing the undercrewed penalties? And if yo, by how much?

 

crew space can be max 5%, and hamlocks are another 5%, so your penelty can be reduced by 10%, marines have no effect on the crew ecept of their negetive reloadtime.

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