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Tacking Sequence


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I also agree that backwards rudder is too powerful. When backing, the rudder can only be used very gingerly to avoid damaging the scantlings or even tearing it off altogether. Furthermore, when making sternway water tends to pile up under the counter, causing rotational forces that often push the stern up into the wind. Steering in reverse is an all around awkward process that could be modeled by low rudder efficiency in-game.

 

I disagree, however, that the squares are powerful enough in terms of rotation. Ink's tacking method proves that they are so potent in that regard that we can turn into the wind without any momentum whatsoever.

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 I disagree, however, that the squares aren't powerful enough in terms of rotation. Ink's tacking method proves that they are so potent in that regard that we can turn into the wind without any momentum whatsoever.

 

The need of a light rotation buff is rather a general feeling than related to tacking. As long as there is some rotation, the ships tack without momentum. Ink's method shows the need to increase a lot the deceleration of backed sails.

 

Given the current deceleration, decreasing the rotation wouldn't solve the problem. On the other hand, increasing the rotation after increasing the deceleration would still slow the tacks without momentum, but would also make box-hauling a better method than tacking without momentum.

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I have tried just tacking using the auto pilot (as if I were the captain and had a capable 1st Lt.) and would give the command that he would then carry out.

 

Missed stays...dead in the water.

 

If tacking is going to have be done manually, I hope you are working on a very well done tutorial.

 

I would also include recorded verbal commands when tacking...that would add a nice sense, and actually teach people how to do it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

Missed stays...dead in the water.

 

If tacking is going to have be done manually, I hope you are working on a very well done tutorial.

 

 

3 things

1) Autoskipper is more than capable to tack (but at an increased time) 

2) First rate should sail like a brick - it is also a high end ship and when you will get it you will actually have tons of experience on faster more nimble ships - you won't be able to sail it from day 1.

3) sailing is not final. it will be only finished after we bring back light ships and test them properly

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hope you all understand that this all will be retuned once small ships are brought back. Current victory parameters exist in the vacuum unfortunately, as they will have to be balanced in line with other ships. 

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  • 3 months later...

I was dismayed and astonished in my brief play thus weekend to see the tacking of vessels entered into by the backing of the main and mizzen and shivering the fore.

Not to say that such a course of action couldn't be successful in theory, the idea of that being a preferable method when taking into account the massive forces applied to those backed sails and difficulty with which they would have to be hauled around.

It is the mizzen sail, or spanker, being fore and aft rigged when hauled in tight that increases pressure aft of the CLR and causes the vessel to head up while still keeping way on her as long as possible with the sails filled until finally hauling around the main and mizzen when in the shadow of the fore stack.

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If wind force on the sails was properly modelled along with rig strength the problem would solve itself as people are generally loathe to see their main stacks go toppling by the board.

Failing at that (which I imagine would be a massive pain in the ass to model), the backing of that much sail should have a major deleterious effect on the speed at which the vessel is moving. Adding in a fatigue meter for the crew might also do it. Hauling around that much canvas when full of wind would need a ton of bodies and would wear a crew out in a hurry, making them less able to effectively fight the boat.

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Solution #1 is to make the backing mainsail bleed off all your speed, as you mentioned. However, this means increasing the backing force overall, and the devs worry that this will make ships too good at screeching to a halt and stern camping, etc. It could also result in increased sternway while tacking properly.

 

And that wouldn't even fix the problem, because a mainsail full aback is so good at making you luff up in this game. Even at 2 knots it will be powering you through stays.

 

Perhaps the best solution would be dynamic yard rotation speeds, penalizing an early mainsail haul.

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Anchors, you seem to have real-life square rigger experience, so answer me this:

What does a trimmed square sail want to do on various courses.

On the wind, the pressure is on the weather leech, and the yard 'wants' to fly fore-and-aft, I know. So if you were to try to brace the yard around, you would be pulling against the force of the wind.

Does it work the same way with the wind abeam? What about with wind on the quarter?

To complicate matters, Seamanship in the Age of Sail claims that it is very quick and easy (and not labor intensive) to deaden way by letting go the mainsail brace, sheet and bowlines. According to what I've said about, letting go the brace would make the yard brace up sharp, and probably rest against the shrouds. That wouldn't lose much speed at all. So maybe the author meant that you let go the sheet first, taking most of the wind out of the sail, in which case the yard reverses its tendency and will square itself when the brace is slack?

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I'm doped to the eyeballs on cold medicine at the moment so I'm honestly having a hard time picturing the maneuver in question.

In a perfect world (in my head), a perfectly balanced square sail with the wind in it would remain square to the wind. When sailing though (unless on a dead run) there will always be more wind on the weather leech as the lee will be shadowed somewhat by the mast and standing rigging.

So, completely letting go of braces would swing the yards sharp up.

This can be seen when bracing about the (formerly backed) fore stack when completing a tack. In any sort of wind, as soon as the sail begins to fill it will want to keep spinning, crashing into the lee shrouds unless the new weather brace teams (assuming the fore is braced aft) keep control of it.

Again, as far as my bran is working today.

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Also that relies on the yards not being already braced so sharp that they are deforming any shrouds or backstays, at which point the force of the standing rigging desiring to return to it's own neutral state can "spring" the yards to a significant degree in defiance of the force of the wind on the sails.

There's so many possible things affecting anything on a sailboat it's hard to focus on any specific aspect. Again, especially while heavily drugged.

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Well let me put the question a different way, then.

The ship is on a broad reach, and you are sitting astride the yardarm, trying to untangle a stun'sl halyard. Suddenly the weather brace snaps. When the yard swings, do you fly forward or aft?

And when you are in stays, and the order comes down for 'let go and haul,' does the foreyard brace in with the help of the wind, or do you have to haul hard and overcome it?

Edit: I meant the weather maintopsail yardarm with sail trimmed properly.

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The first question depends on which mast you're on and whether it's braced forward or aft and whether there's any rake to the mast. There's a lot going into that one including the force of gravity and the unbalanced load your own body is applying to the extreme end of the yard.

The second is easier. On the command of let go and haul the sail will swing on it's own to a significant degree. It does not want to remain backed.

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Gentlemen I am sure this is fascinating stuff and we are all for realism, but there must perforce be some balance with gameplay. I am not here for "sailing a square rigger sim" and I suspect very few of us are. It seems from previous posts in this thread and others on this matter we are unlikely in the short to medium term at least to get full and realistic control of individual masts, yards and sails. And frankly, for me, that would be too much anyway. So if you could perhaps condense the issue and provide a workable solution, that might move the topic/issue along quicker?

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Careful, you're sounding like Flip.  No offense Flip  ^_^ (light humor for both of you)

 

It really isn't that hard once you get the gist of it.  It has a relatively small learning curve but takes practice and a bit of time to master, I think that's good.  It actually helps and is far more rewarding than mere a/d.  The two gentlemen were discussing in detail what happens when the sails/masts/yards undergo changes as seen in game.  Maybe information for the dev's to tune up the manual yard controls not necessarily give us turrets syndrome  :P

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