Pirate Mechanics Vote

[Toothless Jack]

You mean Sir Henry Morgan, privateer, lieutenant governor and vice admiral of the Royal Navy?

Who turned to piracy

[Malachi]

And when exactly did Morgan cross the line between privateering and piracy?

[Cpt Shadow]

When he started not doing what he was asked to do!!  ( Henry Morgan the Pirate who invaded Panama 1671 )

Edited January 15, 2016 by Cpt Shadow

[William the Drake]

And when exactly did Morgan cross the line between privateering and piracy?

 

When he sacked the Spanish city of Panama, when technically Spain and England had declared peace, thus rendering his Letter of Marque null and void. He also refused to return the plunder from said city to the Spanish after they cited this issue and demanded it back (as well as Morgan to be Hanged). Morgan did neither. he also breached his LoM in some other, smaller ways, but this was the biggest. 

Accounts also claim of some more prate than privateer cruelty during this same raid

[Marx]

Given the current almost equal speed of ships and not having any advantage to sailing a frigate vs 1st rates/2nd rates and stern camping. Excluding pirates from crafting would be rediculous as long as the 1st rates continue to have their current speed and manuverability

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

whu should we be exluded from big armoured ship whille u sail around in santi and other shit not even feeling our smaller ships shot and u more or less sink us in one broadside yea cuz that balance

[Ian2492]

whu should we be exluded from big armoured ship whille u sail around in santi and other shit not even feeling our smaller ships shot and u more or less sink us in one broadside yea cuz that balance

 

Pirates aren't meant to be balanced. Pirates are not a nation. Pirates are meant to be a completely different lifestyle with interesting mechanics.

Pirates are like insurgents, having much less in technology and numbers, they resort to unconventional warfare.

This is like asking for an Iraq war simulation game that has US vs insurgents to give the insurgents m1 abrams so that it's more ''balanced''.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Ian2492

[Nathaniel]

When he sacked the Spanish city of Panama, when technically Spain and England had declared peace, thus rendering his Letter of Marque null and void. He also refused to return the plunder from said city to the Spanish after they cited this issue and demanded it back (as well as Morgan to be Hanged). Morgan did neither. he also breached his LoM in some other, smaller ways, but this was the biggest. 

Accounts also claim of some more prate than privateer cruelty during this same raid

 

I know, i know, it's Wikipedia, but it's actually correct:

 

Because the sack of Panama violated the 1670 peace treaty between England and Spain, Morgan was arrested and conducted to the Kingdom of England in 1672. He proved he had no knowledge of the treaty. When Spanish and English relations deteriorated, Morgan was knighted in 1674 before returning to Jamaica the following year to take up the post of Lieutenant Governor.[

 

I'm all for pirates actually conquering ports for gameplay reasons, but let's not pretend there is a shred of historical precedent (ofc Panama could be categorized as the very definition of "raiding", still, it wasn't done by a pirate.

[Hussar]

pirates should be perma death

pirates should be able to modify slightly captured vessels

pirates would have no need of crafted vessels if they had perma death

 

just throwing it out there

[BungeeLemming]

You all think of Pirates as a naiton.

They are not.

Beeing a pirate means you chooseto be hunted by everyone. Nations and even the own team.

 

That does not mean that a pirate has to play accordingly to history.

Cause if so. He would be stuck at medium frigates. Which wont satisfy most of the playerbase.

 

If or when a pirate society gathered enough wealth to build 1st rates, why the heck not?

A lot of effort went into these ships. And if the nationals cannot hunt these clans down and if in consequence the pirates become a very strong force there is nothing wrong with it.

Remember that we will be given the opportunity to build our own estates/ naitons.

And suddenly the pirate becomes a national. And now? Should he suddenly be able to sail ships he could affort previously, too?

 

This is not potbs 2.0 

This is Naval (sandbox type of game) Action

[William the Drake]

I know, i know, it's Wikipedia, but it's actually correct:

 

Because the sack of Panama violated the 1670 peace treaty between England and Spain, Morgan was arrested and conducted to the Kingdom of England in 1672. He proved he had no knowledge of the treaty. When Spanish and English relations deteriorated, Morgan was knighted in 1674 before returning to Jamaica the following year to take up the post of Lieutenant Governor.[

 

I'm all for pirates actually conquering ports for gameplay reasons, but let's not pretend there is a shred of historical precedent (ofc Panama could be categorized as the very definition of "raiding", still, it wasn't done by a pirate.

Yes, i wasn't arguing for the fact or lack thereof of raiding, but rather the politics surrounding the very thin line separating Pirates and Privateer. Technically Morgan was a Pirate regardless of whether he knew of the peace treaty or not. Technically he was supposed to return his plunder to Spain because of this, but didn't thus angering Spain. Had he been captured by Spain, at any point, he most certainly would have been tried as a pirate.

Often politics had more of a hand in determining if one was a pirate or a privateer than did the Captains actual actions (i.e. William Kidd). However, the accounts of alleged cruelty on Morgan's part during the raid assert that he was no gentleman Privateer, but more of a cutthroat. 

 

Just as the saying is that One man's Freedom Fighter is another man's Terrorist, so to that One man's privateer is another man's Pirate.

[Nathaniel]

Had he been captured by Spain, at any point, he most certainly would have been tried as a pirate.

Yes, that's the main point of departure. Only someone who would be tried as a pirate by both Spain and England in this case would fit my definition of pirate.

[Malachi]

Surcouf was called a pirate by the British, too, yet he is the very definition of a privateer.

As for Morgan, he never, ever was a pirate.

[maturin]

Why did the British call Surcouf a pirate? Did they mean it in a legalistic sense, or were they just butthurt?

 

 

Anyways, Malachi's point was that Morgan was able to do what he did because he was already a legitimate colonial authority with national resources at his command. He had a population with an economy and craftsmen and farmers that could grow food. Not just some 18th century hobos sitting on a beach.

[Malachi]

Too successful, I suppose

 

But as far as I know, this was not the 'official' point of view, he was called a pirate in newspapers/pamphlets.

[maturin]

Too successful, I suppose

 

But as far as I know, this was not the 'official' point of view, he was called a pirate in newspapers/pamphlets.

That's what I suspected. Probably would have been swarmed by groupies if he had been caught.

[B4NGSPL4T]

Well, by the looks of it every Pirate and his parrot have rushed in here to try and sway the vote. I should have added a question that asks which nation they play as, not that any of the scoundrels would have been honest about it 

[Lord Vicious]

Well, by the looks of it every Pirate and his parrot have rushed in here to try and sway the vote. I should have added a question that asks which nation they play as, not that any of the scoundrels would have been honest about it 

IF you not like results of poll not make poll

 

btw its a honest result      clearly pirates should be able to craft up to 3rd rates no more.  so i guess is a community success

 

if we add that to your idea of captured player ships get refitted by pirates with extra armor/cannons but less manouvrability and a different skin color. all will be happy.  as well the option to raid a port for resources/gold  instead capture

[William the Drake]

Well, by the looks of it every Pirate and his parrot have rushed in here to try and sway the vote. I should have added a question that asks which nation they play as, not that any of the scoundrels would have been honest about it 

 

Too bad that regardless of what we pirates say that it is ultimately the Devs decision. Regardless, it doesn't matter who voted for what, we see what the community thinks. Personally think that pirates shouldn't craft anything over a snow. but that's just me.

['Sharpe]

I think it is clear that the community prefers raiding only, by 2 to 1 odds. And also excluding 1st and 2nd rate ship production.

Of course there would also be advantages to other parts of Pirate gameplay to counterbalance this.

['Sharpe]

That does not mean that a pirate has to play accordingly to history.

Cause if so. He would be stuck at medium frigates. Which wont satisfy most of the playerbase.

Pirates should be able to sail anything through capture. The issue being polled here is production. But if they are not "satisfied" with this? Then they are not being forced to play Pirate. There are SEVEN other factions with National game mechanics. We don't need to make the 8th faction completely identical.

This is not potbs 2.0

This is Naval (sandbox type of game) Action

I played Potbs Closed Beta, back when Pirates were treated the same as any other nation. There is a reason that game made the change that it did. It was better for gameplay. Edited January 16, 2016 by 'Sharpe

[Toothless Jack]

To be honest with you i must agree with proposed changes for pirates.

I been playing for 3 weeks now and even its still in alpha, game becomes more and more boring.

Nothing else to do. login, sail 30 min to find a fight. Line up 4x4 with nationals. Sink or win and thats it. Tomorrow all over again.

So i say changes must be done at least for us pirates. Otherwise after 1 -2 months people will be just leaving game.

In this game we need something else to do. Hunt for traders fleet.. Or give us just small ships but let us tag big ones. So 50 of us can attack one victory

Something has to be done. Leave ' boring ' part for Nationals. Pirates should be fun game play

Edited January 17, 2016 by Toothless Jack

[CRASHS]

Pirates should not be excluded from anything, and should be allowed to be a major power if the players playing the faction are better and more skilled than the other factions. To be arbitrarily limited because the other factions don't have good players is moronic.

[Deepgift]

Pirates should be able to sail anything through capture. The issue being polled here is production. But if they are not "satisfied" with this? Then they are not being forced to play Pirate. There are SEVEN other factions with National game mechanics. We don't need to make the 8th faction completely identical.

I played Potbs Closed Beta, back when Pirates were treated the same as any other nation. There is a reason that game made the change that it did. It was better for gameplay.

 

Pirates would not be identical they would be at war 100% of the time.... when diplomacy is implemented it will be much easier to gang up on the pirates. Pirates could be a power check making sure the national could work towards a common goal and accomplish something.

[BrosifBallin]

When you have the fantasy of other minor nations like Sweden becoming dominate in the Caribbean then you should not limit the the Pirates being able to have that same fantasy. Artificial limits will just kill the faction for no reason outside of other players jealousy. 

Edited January 18, 2016 by BrosifBallin