Pirate Mechanics Vote

[B4NGSPL4T]

This is a simple vote, asking two main questions. Pirate Port Capture/Raiding and Pirate Crafting. I have set out the questions so that it will be very easy to determine as a community, where to draw the theoretical line.

Yes, Pirates would still be able to obtain SOL's (through capture and trading). Yes, a Pirate could make another account and use it as a crafter. However, it would make the appearance of SOL's for Pirates a much rarer thing, as well as increase the value of it to the faction.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Henry d'Esterre Darby
Restored posting functionality.

[Ned Loe]

Pirates should have access to Pirate 3rd rates, ships that are captured and rebuilt versions. Larger guns, but with handling penalties. The purpose of this is to keep Pirates interested in getting one without pvp. 

[B4NGSPL4T]

Pirates should have access to Pirate 3rd rates, ships that are captured and rebuilt versions. Larger guns, but handling penalties. The purpose of this is to keep Pirates interested in quarantining one without pvp. 

They would have access regardless if they can craft them or not. There are plenty of AI 3rd Rates that they can capture.

In terms of re-building ships, what I think should happen is that when a Pirate captures a ship it is a 1 durability ship. What they can then do is take that 1 durability ship (for example, a 3rd Rate), and rebuilt it. The act of rebuilding changes the look of the ship (maybe just colour?), and gives it the durabilities that the ship would have if it was crafted. Other things can be added to this such as effecting the ships inbuilt characteristics, maybe even razeed?

[Toothless Jack]

This is a simple vote, asking two main questions. Pirate Port Capture/Raiding and Pirate Crafting. I have set out the questions so that it will be very easy to determine as a community, where to draw the theoretical line.

Yes, Pirates would still be able to obtain SOL's (through capture and trading). Yes, a Pirate could make another account and use it as a crafter. However, it would make the appearance of SOL's for Pirates a much rarer thing, as well as increase the value of it to the faction.

Nice poll done my voting but would be nice to have more options about port capturing. 

Limited port capturing

Both capturing and raiding.

[B4NGSPL4T]

The post I made was intentionally done in such a way that it did not include mechanics in the original post, as the mechanics are something that could be discussed until the cows come home. With that said, a reasonable "positive" to the so called "negative" would be that when a pirate captures a ship they can "overhaul" it using crafting to make a pirate like vessel (such as an increase in speed, crew, different cannons, perhaps even a boarding bonus). In addition, let's say a Pirate captures a 3rd rate. With the overhaul it would turn the 1 durability captured 3rd rate in to a 3 durability crafted pirate 3rd rate. Why this process? It adds a new element to the game. Pirates would have to capture the larger ships, while retaining the ability to craft say up to a Frigate. Yes, they may still be at a disadvantage, however combined with the inability to capture ports, only raid, it gives them a constant assurance that the ports they use can never be captured or overturned (being free towns).

Pirates and Neutrals should be the unique classes of the game, more difficult to play than the others, as they are not part of a nation. I would say that "Pirate Rigged" ships would certainly close that gap while retaining a balance.
 

[Scorpio Shirica]

I like the poll, voted for raiding only.

 

I will only vote on restricting ships of the line for pirates if there is another mechanic that "buffs" them or somehow compensates for that limitation.

 

As a Britain player, I've found pirates to be some of the most organized and would hate to hurt their ability to give us good fights. 

[Toothless Jack]

I like the poll, voted for raiding only.

 

I will only vote on restricting ships of the line for pirates if there is another mechanic that "buffs" them or somehow compensates for that limitation.

 

As a Britain player, I've found pirates to be some of the most organized and would hate to hurt their ability to give us good fights. 

Thank you for the kind words.. I can promise you this. What ever ships will be given to us we will come and give you a good fights

Even i am pirate i have voted to restrict pirates from crafting 1-2-3 rates.

But i see the problem with just raiding ports because you would get just loot once and thats it. So what ever fits to your combat ship cargo

And if some guys wasn't online they won't get anything. We must operate at least few ports to have some resources. Please don't limit us just to Mortimer Town .. Unless i don't understand the concept of raiding. How its going to work.

Thats why i have asked for more options for capturing in this poll. 

['Sharpe]

I like the poll, voted for raiding only.

I will only vote on restricting ships of the line for pirates if there is another mechanic that "buffs" them or somehow compensates for that limitation.

Oh yes, I would hope that Pirates have the ability to mod their non SOLs in more powerful ways than nationals can: faster, stronger, better turning.

This would give them better ability to act as wolfpack trade raiders, and also create an interesting cat and mouse: Pirates trying to capture national SOLs, Nationals trying to capture up-modded Pirate versions of frigates.

I would also like to see, later on, the ability for ONLY Pirates to customize the appearance of their ship. Choose from approved flags, colors, for example.

[Scorpio Shirica]

The idea I pitched with raiding is they'd get extra gold/ loot and raid flags could be bought from free towns, making them a menace all over the map and compensating for lack of keeping port. Raid would last until server reset at end of night, then flip back to owner with less resources.

 

They'd be worth less to raid too, with less resources and incentivize pirates terrorizing different ports.

 

But that's cool, if the pirate faction thinks they'd do fine without crafting SOL's. I've definitely seen pirates with the resourcefulness to capture and ambush nation's SOL's. 

 

Look forward to more good fights.

['Sharpe]

Toothless Jack, I think the goal is to have Pirate ports (uncapturable) spread throughout the map near prime shipping lanes, so that, to address your concern, you wouldn't be restricted to just Mortimer Town.

Edited January 14, 2016 by 'Sharpe

[DeathGenie]

Pirates should have access to Pirate 3rd rates, ships that are captured and rebuilt versions. Larger guns, but with handling penalties. The purpose of this is to keep Pirates interested in getting one without pvp. 

I agree, let us put 1st rate guns on 3rd rates and perhaps more of them as well, its a very pirate thing to do, pirates weren't opposed to adding more guns than a ship was supposed to have on a ship, they weren't concerned about the long term usage of their boats, it was a means to an existence, if they needed a new boat they took one.

 

Toothless Jack, I think the goal is to have Pirate ports (uncapturable) spread throughout the map near prime shipping lanes, so that, to address your concern, you wouldn't be restricted to just Mortimer Town.

 

If we see raiding implemented and pirate port capture removed I'd like to see pirate ports unable to be captured like this, it makes pirates a global threat which sadly we can't be atm, there's not as much you can do out of a free town. I would like to see more free town functionality for pirates too, they were havens for all especially pirates, perhaps if added functionality is added to pirates in free towns some of the pirate towns could be turned into free towns.

 

I should also note that as a pirate, not a national player I'm supporting these things, I also would like to see crafting limited, not to just pirates, but to nationals as well, I'd like to see 1st/2nd rates come in as a reward for very high level missions and not craftable, if they were rewards from hard missions with only 1 dura I doubt anyone would recklessly waste it just because they had enough economy as a nation to do so. This would also push people towards smaller ships, not necessarily frigates, but at least somewhat towards them, another mechanic perhaps can be created to make 3rd rates hard to get as well. Perhaps higher cost to craft so you see more 3rd rates in the nations who control better economic ports than other nations, gives a reason to cap ports besides location and the current "why not" factor..

Edited January 14, 2016 by DeathGenie

[Fluffy Fishy]

I think they should be able to capture and raid, but make it much harder to hold control over ports as they don't have a formal military to use in protection. When it comes to ships, They shouldnt have mainstream large ships but have unique smaller ships with extra guns and men similar to the privateer.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Fluffy Fishy

[Toothless Jack]

Toothless Jack, I think the goal is to have Pirate ports (uncapturable) spread throughout the map near prime shipping lanes, so that, to address your concern, you wouldn't be restricted to just Mortimer Town.

That would make sense. Because if raiding would go wrong or they will nerf pirates completely they still need to have some back up ports for resources to rebuild their ships.

Even tho its going to be sailing around the map to get them together its still at least some option.

[Scorpio Shirica]

Missions with AI would be a lot easier for Brits to overcome then organizing the man hours that it takes to collect all resources needed for first rates. I don't think you realize what an effort they are at the moment, if you think it's easy. 

 

However, I do like the idea of pirates being able to base out of free towns that are uncapturable.

 

Sure, there would be the complaint that it's harder to contain pirates... but so what? Blockade and actively patrol those waters if you want to slow down pirates, the ability to squash them to the middle of the map where there capital is seems a bit silly. It'll ensure pirates are only a factor for a limited number of nationals. 

[Prater]

Why should a Pirate 3rd rate get heavier guns?  First of all, where are they going to get the 42lbers?  Second, how are the sides of the ship going to stay intact with 42lbers?  If the ship could carry 42lbers, they would carry them.  Third, what are the downsides for so overarming the ship that it affects its stability, maneuverability, speed, exhaustion of the crew exercising larger guns, it would definitely require more crew in the same amount of space, which would mean the ship would be over crowded, etc?

[William the Drake]

I agree, let us put 1st rate guns on 3rd rates and perhaps more of them as well, its a very pirate thing to do, pirates weren't opposed to adding more guns than a ship was supposed to have on a ship, they weren't concerned about the long term usage of their boats, it was a means to an existence, if they needed a new boat they took one.

 

 

Wait, are you being sarcastic, or no? Because while, yes, pirates did cut out gun ports and add cannon (usually only to previously undergunned trade vessels) they would not use heavier guns to do so. Pirates wanted to capture a ship, and larger guns would result in sinking the ship instead of capturing it.

[Reki]

They must have bellona.

[DeathGenie]

Missions with AI would be a lot easier for Brits to overcome then organizing the man hours that it takes to collect all resources needed for first rates. I don't think you realize what an effort they are at the moment, if you think it's easy. 

 

However, I do like the idea of pirates being able to base out of free towns that are uncapturable.

 

Sure, there would be the complaint that it's harder to contain pirates... but so what? Blockade and actively patrol those waters if you want to slow down pirates, the ability to squash them to the middle of the map where there capital is seems a bit silly. It'll ensure pirates are only a factor for a limited number of nationals. 

 

I really don't like pirates being involved in the conquest area of the game like they are right now, I think there should be ports that should just be uncapturable that are pirate only, sort of like pirate havens or something, just too lawless to really control, and then free towns as well that pirates get more ability out of like raiding flags and maybe a better shipyard than is at a pirate port that allows them to build larger ships.

 

Why should a Pirate 3rd rate get heavier guns?  First of all, where are they going to get the 42lbers?  Second, how are the sides of the ship going to stay intact with 42lbers?  If the ship could carry 42lbers, they would carry them.  Third, what are the downsides for so overarming the ship that it affects its stability, maneuverability, speed, exhaustion of the crew exercising larger guns, it would definitely require more crew in the same amount of space, which would mean the ship would be over crowded, etc?

 

 

Wait, are you being sarcastic, or no? Because while, yes, pirates did cut out gun ports and add cannon (usually only to previously undergunned trade vessels) they would not use heavier guns to do so. Pirates wanted to capture a ship, and larger guns would result in sinking the ship instead of capturing it.

 

I was definitely implying overcrewing and less stability, they would have not ever realistically gotten a 3rd rate so who knows what the pirates would put on that, some of the bolder ones if they had one might aim to take out a navy frigate or something if they wanted to, we don't really know what they would do on a 3rd rate so it was just an assumption but usually they found assorted gun sizes on all decks of sunken pirate vessels some up to very large sizes it just depends on what they got their hands on. We do however know that the few larger galleons and smaller rated ships they captured often times were put ashore and all the guns moved to one size and used like a fortress near a larger pirate port. 

[William the Drake]

[...] but usually they found assorted gun sizes on all decks of sunken pirate vessels some up to very large sizes it just depends on what they got their hands on. We do however know that the few larger galleons and smaller rated ships they captured often times were put ashore and all the guns moved to one size and used like a fortress near a larger pirate port. 

Wait wait, large sizes in general or large sizes for the ship in question? Pirates had to utilize what they had, and often coming across naval grade large-caliber cannons was not something that happened often. Same with having a full complement of the same caliber of gun: pirates weren't forging cannons, if they could manage to get a ship to have a uniform compliment of guns, it would be from numerous other ships, again, not happening often. 

And the large "Fortress Ship" you are referring to I think only happened once at Nassau, not a common practice. At least to my knowledge

Large-caliber cannons just doesn't fit the Pirate goal: making sure a target stays afloat so as to capture and loot it. Also for the fact again hat pirates would need to have taken said large-caliber guns from another ship, which in this case would have been a Naval grade vessel. Pirates avoided engaging with naval ships because of the fact that Pirate ships were custom built to do one thing: chase down unarmed or lightly-armed traders, not to face off against heavily armed naval vessels (one-on-one at least. Large numbers of pirate vessels may have been able to go up against a Naval Frigate with some success, but this is also an assumption).

[Deepgift]

I dont think pirates should be excluded from crafting.

[Dragoon]

This is a faction based game...start putting limits on nations watch this this game crash and die a slow death...why not limit the brits that have more people playing then..key word is Game..its a game it is not history

[Bigvalco]

But if you ban Ships of the line, then only the criminals will have them!

[Toothless Jack]

There is some groundwork done by posters here.

 

Toothless Jack, I think the goal is to have Pirate ports (uncapturable) spread throughout the map near prime shipping lanes, so that, to address your concern, you wouldn't be restricted to just Mortimer Town.

I would say this is a step towards pirates being different.

Spread pirate ports around the map. Make all resources for craft available in same port but limited spawn. So pirates will be forced to break in groups and live far from each other.

But pirate ports should be uncapturable. Each initial pirate port must have ' Green zone ' for new players to level up. When creating pirate give an option to pick one of these ports.

Outposts still works for them in all pirate/free towns to store ships in case pirates have to face real threat and need to group up.

Remove or balance deliveries so solo pirates can gather extra resources or gold from traders and you have small pirate gangs operating all around the map.

 

 

I think they should be able to capture and raid, but make it much harder to hold control over ports as they don't have a formal military to use in protection. When it comes to ships, They shouldnt have mainstream large ships but have unique smaller ships with extra guns and men similar to the privateer.

 

Pirates should be able and capture and raid ports for extra resources and time window does not matter for them. They also could not set defence timer.

 

 

Missions with AI would be a lot easier for Brits to overcome then organizing the man hours that it takes to collect all resources needed for first rates. I don't think you realize what an effort they are at the moment, if you think it's easy. 

 

However, I do like the idea of pirates being able to base out of free towns that are uncapturable.

 

Sure, there would be the complaint that it's harder to contain pirates... but so what? Blockade and actively patrol those waters if you want to slow down pirates, the ability to squash them to the middle of the map where there capital is seems a bit silly. It'll ensure pirates are only a factor for a limited number of nationals. 

Raiding free towns also good idea since pirates will be struggling to put something together being widely spread around the map and they going to need a lot of resources to replace ships.

Also raiding Free Towns would slow down National traders from executing their buy orders like 24/7

 

I dont think pirates should be excluded from crafting.

 

 

We need crafting and we need at least few different ships like pirate frigate and different modules.

I will leave it up to your imagination. But if you want to make pirates unique and every solo ship should be scared of seeing pirate modules for pirate ships should be effective .

Stronger crew, faster and more agile ships, faster reloading cannons.

Pirates was sick crazy bunch and they would not stop at anything until they capture ship.. So make it work

 

 

EDIT:

So what do you think? Unique enough?

Edited January 15, 2016 by Toothless Jack

[Cpt Shadow]

Ahoy!

 

To get a good perspective on pirates, people might like to look at the history of Henry Morgan and his raids and port captures ( I dont think I am allowed to post the link to other sites but its there on-line and a good read, just search Henry Morgan Pirate ).  

 

You will see that pirates both raided and captured ports.   I personally think that if you limit crafting then there would need to be a counter balance to this.  It gets complicated because many people want to be a kind of 'Jack Sparrow' but if people flock to the pirate colours you will get an imbalance in relation to what the real situation was, however this is only a game, its not a historical re-enactment.  

 

If you remove high levels of crafting from pirates then give them something in return that other players can not have.. that way there is an incentive to remain a pirate.  It gets complex because anything you change will lead to a request for that to be removed or changed again (everybody wants to be on the winning team).   

[Malachi]

To get a good perspective on pirates, people might like to look at the history of Henry Morgan and his raids and port captures

 

 

You mean Sir Henry Morgan, privateer, lieutenant governor and vice admiral of the Royal Navy?