Livineater

[TommyShelby]

Oh well, time has come for my first tribunal. 

 

I was "streamsniping" so to speak. I've always assumed that people had the choice of being "streamsniped" or putting a delay on their stream.

- It's later on been pointed out to me that in this game a streamer would  need a giant delay on his stream so as to not be "streamsniped". 

If "streamsniping" is against the rules then i will surely take whatever punishment is found fair.

- Even if "streamsniping" isn't against the rules i would like to apologize to Joshy for doing it. After having been explained how big of a delay one would need to not be "streamsniped" in NA i now understand how much of an annoyance that would be. So i'm sorry Joshy, it won't happen again.

 

Anyways, after trying to go for Joshy (He escaped, well done.) we caught livineater. Livineater escaped this first engagement. 

After giving up pursuit for Livineater Chustler and I went to Jeremie to see if we could get a pvp fight going. 

Surely enough we had a pvp battle going of decent size quite soon and it seemed like we could have fun.

 

On our side of the battle were me, chustler, ragnar kill me if you can, and Gamover. Livineater and a couple of other british players were against us (I won't name the other brits, they have nothing to do with the tribunal.). 

Livineater became very mad and well, i think the chat log explains the rest. (Gamover will post the chatlog as i don't remember where to find it.) 

 

Cheers.

 

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

If the offense involved things said in the chat (e.g. profanity, personal attacks, etc), the correct response is to right click the offendor and Report them inside the game client.  This tribunal is no longer being used for in-game chat offenses.

 

Additionally, the chat log itself is inadmissable as it is easily modified prior to posting it - screen shots are required to prove misbehavior.

 

Thank you.

[Gamover]

So I have all screenshots, and if admin ask them, I will post it

[TommyShelby]

If the offense involved things said in the chat (e.g. profanity, personal attacks, etc), the correct response is to right click the offendor and Report them inside the game client.  This tribunal is no longer being used for in-game chat offenses.

 

Additionally, the chat log itself is inadmissable as it is easily modified prior to posting it - screen shots are required to prove misbehavior.

 

Thank you.

 

Roger that. I'll remember this for future reference. 

[Henrik]

Can someone explain to me what streamsniping is, call me daft but i have not heard of this untill i came on this forum.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Henrik

[livineater]

example u are a streamer u are streaming a game u play and another person watches that stream and uses it to see where u are  and find and kill u

[Coolbord9]

Though in a game where you can freecam anywhere you want its of dubious use...

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

The Home Camera will not render objects outside of the "range" of your view from your ship.  At a certain distance, the land and other objects cease to appear and will not appear until you come into view range.

 

While the Home Cam can be used to get a closer view of a very distant ship, that ship is already in sight of you.  It can not be used to range freely about the entire map looking for things.

[Snoopy]

Everyone streaming this game should remember..

 

[Coolbord9]

My mistake. Livineater was accusing people of abusing it earlier and I assumed he was correctly informed. Sorry

 

 

Coolbord

[Guest raat]

Gamover should really just Getover himself. (see what I did there? )

 

Don't want to get streamsniped?  Don't stream in real time.  You can set a delay of up to 15 min on Twitch.  There's no way to get "sniped" if you are trying.  Not to mention, you're playing a war game.  One in which espionage is possible.

 

Streaming is the equivalent of radio broadcasting top secret info in WWII over normal airwaves and expecting the enemy to 1) not be listening and 2) not do anything with all that free intel. 

Edited September 29, 2015 by Raatha

[hoarmurath]

Gamover should really just Getover himself. (see what I did there? )

 

Don't want to get streamsniped?  Don't stream in real time.  You can set a delay of up to 15 min on Twitch.  There's no way to get "sniped" if you are trying.  Not to mention, you're playing a war game.  One in which espionage is possible.

 

Streaming is the equivalent of radio broadcasting top secret info in WWII over normal airwaves and expecting the enemy to 1) not be listening and 2) not do anything with all that free intel. 

 

Err... I'm not sure that discouraging people who stream is really good for a game. The kind of message it send doesn't seem very appealing to me.

[SteelSandwich]

Err... I'm not sure that discouraging people who stream is really good for a game. The kind of message it send doesn't seem very appealing to me.

Care to enlighten us where he said that?

He is simply stating that there is a causal connection between streaming and the risk of streamsniping. He furthermore elaborates on how to prevent that, so that people can stream without problem.

 

But i guess you just read what you want to read, so yea, you are totally right, what a silly statement from raatha

Edited September 29, 2015 by SteelSandwich

[Magnum]

Err... I'm not sure that discouraging people who stream is really good for a game. The kind of message it send doesn't seem very appealing to me.

 

But since they is no way to enforce a ban on it, why try to ban it?

[Henrik]

Ah i see now!

[hoarmurath]

Oh, i'm just wondering about the motivations of the people who are doing it... That's all...

[Oliver H. Perry]

Oh, i'm just wondering about the motivations of the people who are doing it... That's all...

 

To Tommy's credit, he has already said that he regrets doing so, and will not do so again.  Personally, I think that's a credit to his character.  Myself, I think using someone's stream to chase them down is a very shabby thing to do, and would hope that my fellow Captains in the Armada would commit to not doing so in the future. 

 

That said, it's impossible to police it, so I would say "caveat streamer" - streamer beware.  If you're going to stream, you'd best keep a sharp eye for enemy sails and dry powder in your guns.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Oliver H. Perry

[Coolbord9]

haha

 

 

*tried to quote "caveat streamer"

Edited September 30, 2015 by Coolbord9

[Ronald Speirs]

Good apology i think, as for this streamsniping term i just heard about seems quite a pathetic tactic used by players who can't be satisfied with just the ingame features to play fairly, using another program to gain an advantage just seems plain wrong and isnt in the spirit of the game, to me it would feel like cheating and who really wants to cheat, its far more satisfying to earn the win fairly IMO but players do have different views on what they find acceptable and i guess that is just online communities these days.

[Guest raat]

Err... I'm not sure that discouraging people who stream is really good for a game. The kind of message it send doesn't seem very appealing to me.

 

I didn't say don't stream.  I said don't stream in real time, meaning set your stream on a long delay so people can't know your real time position.  If you delay the stream long enough, it wouldn't matter if people are watching because they won't know exactly where you are.

 

The point of all this is really not a matter of honor or morality or whatever.  If the enemy is giving you free intel, you'd be dumb not to use it.  And for that matter, can you really expect people not to? 

 

You can say you wouldn't as a matter of honor, but it's the internet.  There's no way to prove you aren't stream-sniping as much as there is no way to prove you are.  It's a "Shrodinger's Cat" situation.  Everyone is simultaneously stream-sniping and not stream-sniping at the same time.  (Did I blow your mind?)  You can say you're not stream-sniping, but if you beat the streamer in combat, they'll just say you were.

 

Point is, it's the responsibility of the streamer to protect themselves by delaying the stream if they're worried about it, and/or accept that the possibility of being sniped is part of streaming and live with it.  The burden isn't on all the potential "snipers" out there.

[Blackjack Symons]

Streamsniping is poor form, imo. I get that it gives you an edge and could be seen as combat intelligence. Yes, the allies in WWI and II used combat intelligence. So did every army/navy in history, pretty much. But you also didn't - in the 1800's - have radio to tune in to, streams to watch. Your best bet was written intelligence not unlike the ship's report letters that drop on occasion. 

 

As I said, I get why you do it, and I'm not going to talk your ear off about how I - like many above - think it's poor form, but I have to say that I disagree that the onus should be on streamers. Certainly, they should realise that there are people who will do this, but it must also be acknowledged that this isn't the streamer's fault. I don't suggest trying (if you could) to ban streamsniping. Just make it frowned upon by the community because at the end of the day, streamers are catering to their viewers and indirectly to NA (promotions outside of the game) while streamsnipers make them less inclined to stream. 

 

Tl;dr dont try and ban something you can't regulate, but let the community agree that it's poor form and shouldn't be encouraged. (And I'm not naming names or condemning any ONE person.)

 

I have a lot of respect for some of the TDA players in particular, and this is just my 2 cents.

[Prater]

Streamsniping is poor form, imo. I get that it gives you an edge and could be seen as combat intelligence. Yes, the allies in WWI and II used combat intelligence. So did every army/navy in history, pretty much. But you also didn't - in the 1800's - have radio to tune in to, streams to watch. Your best bet was written intelligence not unlike the ship's report letters that drop on occasion. 

 

As I said, I get why you do it, and I'm not going to talk your ear off about how I - like many above - think it's poor form, but I have to say that I disagree that the onus should be on streamers. Certainly, they should realise that there are people who will do this, but it must also be acknowledged that this isn't the streamer's fault. I don't suggest trying (if you could) to ban streamsniping. Just make it frowned upon by the community because at the end of the day, streamers are catering to their viewers and indirectly to NA (promotions outside of the game) while streamsnipers make them less inclined to stream. 

 

Tl;dr dont try and ban something you can't regulate, but let the community agree that it's poor form and shouldn't be encouraged. (And I'm not naming names or condemning any ONE person.)

 

I have a lot of respect for some of the TDA players in particular, and this is just my 2 cents.

 

 

Using Team Speak is poor form then.  Or, lets say, a guild leader is given ambassador status to a group's forums for community building reasons.  This guild leader has more access than they should and uses it to view the private forums and gain intelligence.  Is that poor form?   (true story)

 

I'd say no to both accounts, and they are both basically on the same level as stream sniping.

[hoarmurath]

I didn't say don't stream.  I said don't stream in real time, meaning set your stream on a long delay so people can't know your real time position.  If you delay the stream long enough, it wouldn't matter if people are watching because they won't know exactly where you are.

 

The point of all this is really not a matter of honor or morality or whatever.  If the enemy is giving you free intel, you'd be dumb not to use it.  And for that matter, can you really expect people not to? 

 

You can say you wouldn't as a matter of honor, but it's the internet.  There's no way to prove you aren't stream-sniping as much as there is no way to prove you are.  It's a "Shrodinger's Cat" situation.  Everyone is simultaneously stream-sniping and not stream-sniping at the same time.  (Did I blow your mind?)  You can say you're not stream-sniping, but if you beat the streamer in combat, they'll just say you were.

 

Point is, it's the responsibility of the streamer to protect themselves by delaying the stream if they're worried about it, and/or accept that the possibility of being sniped is part of streaming and live with it.  The burden isn't on all the potential "snipers" out there.

 

Maybe when the game goes live, but i disagree from an alpha testing pov. We are here to test game features and provide feedback, we know that a lot of features aren't included in the game yet. Maybe streamers would prefer to do it in a pve server. But it's alpha, and we have only one server. To use streamsniping isn't testing anything in the game, and is the kind of tactics i expect from griefers. Imo, it's very poor sportmanship and a lack of respect for the testing community.

 

Personally, i consider that the presence of streamsnipers at this stage of testing is questionable. Maybe they should be kept at bay until the game hit early access.

[Booyaah]

You have 2 choices as a streamer:

 

- Put a several minute delay which means you can't really have real time interaction with your viewers which means no one will really watch you unless you're some pro League of Legends player

- Keep a low delay to interact with viewers and just deal with being stream sniped, it's part of being a streamer.  Putting a few minute delay on your stream when playing NA is not really going to mask your position much since sailing is so slow anyways.

[Guest raat]

People, you're missing the point.  It doesn't matter if you think it's in poor taste or cheating or not sporting.  You can't confirm or deny that anyone is being stream-sniped.

 

So hate it all you want (and you're perfectly free to and perhaps justified in doing so), but it doesn't solve anything.  If a streamer doesn't want to be sniped, it's on them to protect themselves.  You can't control what people do from beyond the internet.

 

If you're streaming, then the goal is to have people watch the stream, yes?  However, you can't control who tunes in.  It's the internet, people.

 

I'm all for giving people a stern shaming for unscrupulous gaming practices.  Shame, shame!!!  How dare they sully our virtuous war game?

 

But...how do you know if someone is stream-sniping?  Unless they tell you, you won't know.  And there in lies the problem and the futility of this whole issue.  You can conjecture, but you can't prove it.  So why bother?

 

This whole thing is silly.