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An all carronade ship?

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While an all carronade first rate ship might be unrealistic there is historical precedence for this load out on smaller vessels

The 56-gun HMS Glatton and the 44-gun HMS Rainbow - there are probably other examples from other navies

 

All cannonades was never a popular choice among players but I feel that there is a case for at least allowing this choice for ships upto the size of the Constitution. It would also be interesting if some AI ships had carronades

 

********************************************

 

regards

 

Mouse of War AKA Captain Office

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You can put nades in the conni. i think it can fit 32's on top and 42's on the bottom. i think a previous post from admin said the bottom decks of 1st rates are now locked from nades - which is fair - the barrel is too short for the frame.

 

Fun fact Henry Trollope who was described as 'carronade crazy' commanded both ships you give as an example. Rainbow, then Glatton

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You can put nades in the conni. i think it can fit 32's on top and 42's on the bottom. i think a previous post from admin said the bottom decks of 1st rates are now locked from nades - which is fair - the barrel is too short for the frame.

 

Fun fact Henry Trollope who was described as 'carronade crazy' commanded both ships you give as an example. Rainbow, then Glatton

 

Funny, I can't now mount any sort of carronade on the lower deck of my Constitution - I wonder if this is the same for vessels with two decks?

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i wish you could put carronades on the bottom deck of the Connie currently it isnt allowed ! :/

 

Trollope was extremely happy with Glatton‍ '​s seaworthiness, handling and general fitting out. He wrote to John Wells, the shipbuilder and her former owner,[10] "I sincerely hope... we may meet with a seventy four in the Glatton...she would either take her or sink her in twenty minutes."[11]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Glatton_%281795%29

 

I can only put 32 lb carronade on top and 24 long gun on bottom but if I could put 42 down there I would be able to sink a 3rd in 20 minutes too!

Edited by Chromey

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Off topic.

Just googled Capt. Trollope and WTF!!!???

"...Under Trollope, Glatton first served in the English Channel where she engaged a French squadron on 15 July 1796.[12] The French squadron consisted of a 50-gun ship, five frigates (two of 36 guns and three of 28), a brig, and a cutter. Glatton drove the French vessels into Flushing, having lost only two men wounded, one of whom died later, and despite having at times been surrounded by the enemy and exchanging fire at less than 20 yards.[12] The French vessels may have included Brutus (a 74-gun cut down to 46-50 guns), Incorruptible (50 guns), Magicienne (32 guns), and Républicaine, and one French vessel apparently sank in Flushing harbour. (It was in this action that Captain Strangeways of the Royal Marines sustained the wound of which he died shortly thereafter, and which the illustration above commemorates.)..."

 

I mean, that crew had some balls.

 

End of Off topic.

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IIRC Constitution briefly had a few carronades on the gundeck, but they were removed because the muzzle blast inside the hull deafened and shocked the crew.

 

Still, it was certainly physically possible, and moreso than mounting 12-pounders on Surprise. Perhaps gundeck carronades on larger vessels could suffer from a reload penalty to simulate their drawbacks.

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I think staying away from all carronade loadouts where they weren't historically carried (at least by broad class of ship) is best, especially if double-shotting carronades is going to be allowed. It was frankly OP on the lineships. And yes, I think a few other ships need an armament haircut also.

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Why should carronades not be possible to mount? They are smaller, need less crew and most importantly have less weight.

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Why should carronades not be possible to mount? They are smaller, need less crew and most importantly have less weight.

 

because victory for example never carried carronades on the lower gun decks.

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Carronades were introduced at the end of 18th century, and became obsolete during 19th century. The fact is that they were only useful at point blank range and that the development of naval artillery quickly made the range of engagement greater as the gun was quickly winning its race against armor efficiency.

 

The current carronades we have currently in game have nothing in common with the real ones. The real ones wouldn't damage hulls like they do here, they were mostly used to decimate the ennemy crews at close range before boarding. For this, they were great. But once it became too dangerous to approach in range of cannons again, carronades just stopped being used.

 

I think that the importance of carronades in the current game is too big, and that it could use some tweaking if we want the game to give them a place more according to the one they had historically.

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Yes thats true. I don't know how carronades are simulated in game. But being a very low range weapon and only very good against the crew it has enough drawbacks to not equip ships only with them. So why not give the freedom to the player?

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Why should carronades not be possible to mount? They are smaller, need less crew and most importantly have less weight.

 

Because it will become the default armament, shifting the whole balance of the damage and sailing performance system.  New repair system has made this 10 times more the case.  They also come with several advantages in game that they didn't have in real life, especially the ability to use OW join mechanics to avoid having to close with an enemy under long range fire (not that long range fire matters under current repair system).  It is also exceptionally easy to farm AI with carronades on lineships, like absurdly easy.

 

Glatton was an exception, and it would be awesome to see her in game someday to play a unique and exceptional role.

 

5th rates as a class, however, saw quite extensive trials of all carronade armaments, and two ships in, or soon to be in, the game (Surprise and Essex) carried all carronade broadsides in service, so allowing it broadly for 5th rates and below (and merchant ships) is reasonable, even though it leads to some historical absurdities (e.g. Renommeé with carronades).  Although even this may need to be reevaluated with the new repair system.  Nonetheless, I'd like to see more ships* allowed their historical armaments where they were actually carried in service, now very feasible thanks to separation of gun and carronade class:

 

Mercury - 24pd carronades (in reality short Russian equivalents)

Surprise - 32pd carronades in the main battery (2nd deck)

Trincomalee - 32pd carronades on FC/QD (1st deck)

Constitution - 42pd carronades on spar deck (1st deck)

 

*I actually haven't checked a few of the above recently, some perhaps this is already possible.

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devs pls make a 4th rate like the Hms Glatton so I can have my all carronade line ship!

 

hms%20glatton%20(1797).jpg

Edited by Chromey

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We don't need Glatton specifically, we just need any old indiaman.

 

Carronades were regarded as the perfect weapon for merchantman.

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I want the 1815 HMS JAVA.

 

 

Dimensions Dimension Measurement Type Metric Equivalent BWAS-1793 Length of Gundeck 171' 11 ½" Imperial Feet 52.4129 Length of Keel 144' 9 ¾" Imperial Feet 44.1389 Breadth 43' 6" Imperial Feet 13.2588 Depth in Hold 14' 3" Imperial Feet   Burthen 1,457 3694 Tons BM  

 

Armament 1815/11/16   Broadside Weight = 972 Imperial Pound ( 440.802 kg) BWAS-1793 Upper Gun Deck 30 British 24-Pounder Spardeck 28 British 42-Pounder Carronade

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I am fine with not being able to put carronades on the lowest deck, but why the middle decks as well?  Does removing carronades from most of the decks on several other ships just because the Vic didn't use them historically really add anything to gameplay?  I enjoyed seeing a 1st rate with all carronades and just demasting them from 500 out and sailing away laughing why they sit there in a corner being useless.

 

The class 2 68-lb carronades, can any ship even mount them on a broadside anymore?  What's the point of even having them if not?

Edited by Booyaah

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I am fine with not being able to put carronades on the lowest deck, but why the middle decks as well?  Does removing carronades from most of the decks on several other ships just because the Vic didn't use them historically really add anything to gameplay?  I enjoyed seeing a 1st rate with all carronades and just demasting them from 500 out and sailing away laughing why they sit there in a corner being useless.

 

The class 2 68-lb carronades, can any ship even mount them on a broadside anymore?  What's the point of even having them if not?

'

This!

 

I think NA is going too realistic to a point where it restrict us, the players! Remember, this is a sandbox and dev should take a moderate approach to the realistic aspect of the game. With the restriction of carronades on some ships, it leaves me thinking that I'm technically forced into one "weapon" per se. 

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68pdrs can still be carried in some chase positions, which is more in accordance with their actual use on 1st - 3rd rates.  Plus, all the more reason to add HMS Glatton for a truly unique ship.  If they don't want to get the limitations of carronades right in game, there shouldn't be total freedom in their use, otherwise they will become the default armament in most situations, with guns reserved for special occasions.  The damage output with all-carronade 1st rates is just insane and throws off the whole balance of the damage model and repair system.

 

Plus, I'm not even entirely convinced carronades could just be exchanged for guns on these ships without problems.  Just look at Glatton.  Because she had been designed for guns, the heavy carronades couldn't traverse properly in the ports and had to be fired straight out the side of the ship.  In the end, her all-carronade armament was a failed experiment and she went back to guns.  On the big lineships, they'd probably also face the problem mentioned in a post above where the muzzle would not protrude from the side, which would be disastrous in operation.

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Devs if we want our ships to have all 4ders ship of the line and or carronades we should be given the right too. Unless you declare that every single thing in this game is historically accurate aka Surprises with 12lbers etc etc then please address this!    

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Its insane damage wise but like someone else said, carronade is very weak against range and thus against a proper sniper, it will be dead within minutes.

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