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Barberouge

Difficult port entrances

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Right now ship hit boxes don't seem to correspond with shallows (e.g. you're grounded but a peek under water shows your hull is 20 or 30 feet above the bottom), and I find that confusing, especially when I'm stopped and trying to "see" the channel I need to take. And maybe that's by design, which is ok, but I noticed that too B24.

 

 

Yes, but if you look under your ship, you can usually see how to get through.  I got transported from English Harbor once to Vacas with the battle teleportation bug.  I was in a Frigate.  That area is all shallows and the area I was in was surrounded by Islands with even worse shallows.  I was able to get out without teleporting to capital because I looked under the water and could see where my ship could fit. 

 

Yes, the ship technically isn't blocked visually by the ocean floor, but you can always see based on height of the ocean floor where your ship can move.  From my experience, if you are able to move and you are surrounded by shallows, you can always move at that height of ocean floor.  So just look for that height or deeper and you can get through.

 

Not very convenient, but perhaps a gamey way of sounding out the ocean floor?

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Arthur's Town.

 

What is the cut-off in ship size needed to enter shallow ports?

 

I've been trying to get into Arthur's Town in the eastern Bahamas with a trade snow and apparently there is too much draft even on that ship ?!?. I can't seem to get close enough to the docks no matter what I do.

Edited by ajffighter86

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Devs just need to add better shallow meter to show players where to go and where not.

They could even make it an action.  Have a button to make a crew member take soundings with a lead that would give you a good picture of the shallows but requires you to go slower and have to have the leads-man taking continuous soundings.

 

The port I have trouble with is Coral Bay in the Virgin Islands.  It has shallows right at the edges of the channel into the port.  The shallows dogleg slightly in the channel making it really hard to get out of the bay with any sort of headwind.

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They could even make it an action.  Have a button to make a crew member take soundings with a lead that would give you a good picture of the shallows but requires you to go slower and have to have the leads-man taking continuous soundings.

 

The port I have trouble with is Coral Bay in the Virgin Islands.  It has shallows right at the edges of the channel into the port.  The shallows dogleg slightly in the channel making it really hard to get out of the bay with any sort of headwind.

To my mind, you tie out the "quality" of the shallows indicator to your speed.  At full sails, you get almost no indicator, as you slow down, you get a higher and higher fidelity of what is in front of you (not necessarily the sides).  At the slowest speed, the distance of detection would spread out farther to where you could bring the bow around back and forth to "scan" for a channel ahead of you.

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In all of testing so far, this is the first time I've been compelled to weigh in on an issue that appears to be a problem.

 

This is BROKEN - Simply by moving up to a Surprise vessel - I cannot enter Bahia or St. Nic no matter what low speed maneuvers I atttempt to enter, stay in or navigate in the channel near enough to the dock to get the 'Enter' Flag to appear. I presume that since I can sail out of St. Nic or Bahia that this isn't a case of shoehorning a too large ship into a port, right?

 

The ONLY way I've been able to enter port is to (a) stop, then (B) teleport while stopped to the port. THEN, and ONLY then will  I get an 'Enter' flag.

 

Initially I thought is was just me - that I was being sloppy and the larger draft ship was trickier to get in to port. But after doing this repeatedly in different ports - it should not be ridiculously hard to get a ship into port.  It's annoying, and adds zero value to the game to have to infinitesimally struggle for just the exact lineup at the exact speed to inch into the exact position to get something as simple as a mere Surprise into port.

 

I know both ships and ports. 24+ yrs experience, 6 ships, 14 yrs of sea duty, underway OOD and special evolutions qualified. I know what port entrances require - THIS ISN'T IT.

 

Respectfully,

 

Bob Williams, Bristol RI, US (Muttley)

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In all of testing so far, this is the first time I've been compelled to weigh in on an issue that appears to be a problem.

 

This is BROKEN - Simply by moving up to a Surprise vessel - I cannot enter Bahia or St. Nic no matter what low speed maneuvers I atttempt to enter, stay in or navigate in the channel near enough to the dock to get the 'Enter' Flag to appear. I presume that since I can sail out of St. Nic or Bahia that this isn't a case of shoehorning a too large ship into a port, right?

 

The ONLY way I've been able to enter port is to (a) stop, then ( B) teleport while stopped to the port. THEN, and ONLY then will  I get an 'Enter' flag.

 

Initially I thought is was just me - that I was being sloppy and the larger draft ship was trickier to get in to port. But after doing this repeatedly in different ports - it should not be ridiculously hard to get a ship into port.  It's annoying, and adds zero value to the game to have to infinitesimally struggle for just the exact lineup at the exact speed to inch into the exact position to get something as simple as a mere Surprise into port.

 

I know both ships and ports. 24+ yrs experience, 6 ships, 14 yrs of sea duty, underway OOD and special evolutions qualified. I know what port entrances require - THIS ISN'T IT.

 

Respectfully,

 

Bob Williams, Bristol RI, US (Muttley)

 

Modern port entrances sure.  But how about back in the day when dredging was nearly unheard of and many ports had shoals or reefs that prevented larger ships from entering them?

 

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your issue, could you please explain it more carefully?  Is it that the port entrance ring is inside of shoals that do not come into play when you undock?

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Sir,

 

To answer your question - if reefs or shoals prevented ships from entering them - they would also prevent ships from departing from them.

 

To explain it more carefully - I sit at either St. Nic or Bahia in a Surprise and spend upwards of 15 mins trying (in vain) at dead slow to find the magic (insert one - angle, approach, waddle, wiggle or snake) manuver through the shoal indicators to get my ship close enough to the pier to get the entry flag.

 

I have tried it straight on, then, slightly left or right, then regardless when I am stopped by shoals, turned at all stop and attempted at dead slow to perform whatever magical amount of movement necessary to get the enter flag - to no avail.

 

On occasion, I have sat right up close to the pier, seeing a shoal indication both right and left, with clear water indication ahead and my ship would not move (no, wind was not a factor).

 

So eventually I've had to go to all stop, then teleport to the same port which would 'land' me with an entry flag available.

 

Had to leave ship outside port because of this, now when I try to play I open to underwater view, no ship, no interface, no ability to select different ship or port - had to hard close the client.exe app in windows to exit. Done for now.

Edited by BobW-Bristol-RI-US

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Historically, some ports were extremely difficult to get in to.  I don't personally see a problem with them right now.

I agree with you sir Henry and i also dont have any problem with it. 

But i would note that shallow indicator should pop out a few meters sooner so all would be happy.

 

The truth is that if everyone would cut their sails down when approaching the port and decelerate at proper speed that is required to enter a port we shouldnt have this conversation at all :)

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Developed ports usually had pilots, whether treacherous or not.

This is also true not only back then but also in today world, When a ship reaches some difficult ports\canals\river entrances a local pilot is requested to come aboard and take over the helm until the ship passes safetly out of those kind of dangers and + at that time that he is on the helm of certain ship he takes full responsibility for the ship his crew and the cargo if any aboard.

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Guys who not see any issue about difficult port entrances explain me please: what fun is sailing, turning your ship between shallows (even in deep water harbours)to possibility dock up? Or you havent meet this issue near yours ports or ya have to be masochists...no offence

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Well sir Smith i didnt stated there was no problem in all the ports in the game i did not visit them all,what i did said that i didnt had to much problem so far,some of them are easy to acces on some i had some difficulties but nothing to serius to be such a serius problem for me.

 

Now that being said if you did encounter major problems on docking in some port and by your post you clearly did can you make a nice and clear post on them for example > where did you encounter that problem,what is the port name,location,and explain in detail how you could not enter the port what ever you tried to aproach it and so on and if you have a solution for it write it down aswell.

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It is a part of the skill of knowing an area.  Sailing into a port should be part of your local knowledge.  Most of the ports I have operated out of can be a little difficult to get into/out of until you figure out the approach, then it's simple.  That allows a richer experience, especially if you're chasing (or being chased by) someone new to the area.  The Captain with the local knowledge should have a better ability to get into/out of port.

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It is a part of the skill of knowing an area.  Sailing into a port should be part of your local knowledge.  Most of the ports I have operated out of can be a little difficult to get into/out of until you figure out the approach, then it's simple.  That allows a richer experience, especially if you're chasing (or being chased by) someone new to the area.  The Captain with the local knowledge should have a better ability to get into/out of port.

Maybe in theory but definitely not in game now, now is just annoying. This could work maybe when we get better graphic on shallows - i mean better visibility of them. That my opinion and i respect others opinions...

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I never had problems being attacked when approaching a port, I even had an IA who turned while it was trying to follow me.

But the distance of approach to the port is IMO not enough to avoid a player to attack you when you are trying to enter the port.

So I am in the shallows, he outside.

 

The shallows are part of the game, for me no problem, but when someone states that he can't enter a port because of the shallows, I would suggest to try it yourself before you (even suggest) he could be wrong.

Or the port is a shallow port, and then I can understand he does not enter with a Surprise, or it is a deep water port and in the last case less shallows should appear, certainly with a Surprise.

There are three ports named Bahia or similar. One shallow and two deep water ports. St Nic ( I suppose Saint Nicolas) is a deep water port.

Thanks for the game.

Nico

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Road Town is a deep water harbor yet has shallows just in front which seems contrary to being a deep water harbor. 

 

These shallows will be prime hunting grounds. 

 

I think there should be ports that are difficult to get into but deep water harbors?

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It may have been said already but large SoL's like Vics did not enter ports usually. They would drop anchor in the harbor area and supplies would be ferried out. They would only dock if they needed major repairs or were there for an extended time...like 3 months. A couple weeks in port wasn't unusual.

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Cayo Romano can be a difficult one to enter from Matthew town or anywhere southeast of it; the shallows are hard to see and the port looks like it's right in front of you until you see a very small (sort of hook shaped) piece of land extending out sheltering the port all but from you entering by going further north-east and then east.
It's also interesting to note that it seems to be near a spawn-point for large NPC fleets or ships of all nations who tend to hang around the cove and attack you while you attempt to dock.

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Checked the reported ports - some comments

  • advice: most of the time, don't sail along the coast (taking the shortest route) to enter a port, but sail a bit away then aim straight for the dock end
  • the water color doesn't always reflect the depths, but sometimes the proximity of the coast
  • on low graphics it's dificult to see any insight about the shallows by looking at the water color

 

I'll start making a list as I come across them, but like Wind said it's usually that it's hard to figure out where the shallows are.

 

The flipside to that is there are some that are really cool because they're difficult, like Conil (I think). Depending on wind direction, it can be quite a challenge.

 

Yes Conil has a large enough entrance range. Although when you come directly from the bay entrance, you have to sail a bit north.

 

 

Caño Macareo is what i find my self having to swing left to right allot just for find the right path kind a frustrating

 

Are you sure it is this "cano" ? I tried it multiple times and didn't have any difficulty.

 

 

At first I thought Carupano but I've sailed into it dozens of times now and I've learned how to navigate it. It would be cool to tie the ability to get into port easily to the sailing master 

 

Carupano is too difficult, there's a 1mm range to enter it.

 

 

honda is the exact same way always fenessing my vic or consti or even a bellona when i had one in to that port

 

Agreed about Bahia Honda.

 

 

The last few meters to the dock in George town Cayman are a Bear, the rest of the approach is terrific.

 

Agreed about George Town.

 

 

Arthur's Town.

 

What is the cut-off in ship size needed to enter shallow ports?

 

I've been trying to get into Arthur's Town in the eastern Bahamas with a trade snow and apparently there is too much draft even on that ship ?!?. I can't seem to get close enough to the docks no matter what I do.

 

Ships up to the Snow should enter shallow harbors. And yes, Arthur's Town entrance is extremely difficult.

 

 

They could even make it an action.  Have a button to make a crew member take soundings with a lead that would give you a good picture of the shallows but requires you to go slower and have to have the leads-man taking continuous soundings.

 

The port I have trouble with is Coral Bay in the Virgin Islands.  It has shallows right at the edges of the channel into the port.  The shallows dogleg slightly in the channel making it really hard to get out of the bay with any sort of headwind.

 

Channels shouldn't be navigated against the wind, especially tight ones like Coral Bay. With a good wind, the entrance path seems quite large.

 

 

 I cannot enter Bahia or St. Nic no matter what low speed maneuvers I atttempt to enter, stay in or navigate in the channel near enough to the dock to get the 'Enter' Flag to appear.

 

Which Bahia is it ? For Saint-Nicolas, you have to sail a bit more in the middle of the channel instead of sailing along the southern coast.

 

 

I had great difficulty getting to Tortuga in a brig and eventually gave up.

 

Is it La Tortue (Haiti) or La Tortuga (Venezuela) ?

 

 

Road Town is a deep water harbor yet has shallows just in front which seems contrary to being a deep water harbor. 

 

These shallows will be prime hunting grounds. 

 

I think there should be ports that are difficult to get into but deep water harbors?

 

There are some shallows displayed, but the deep navigation entrance of Road Town is still quite large.

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