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Nation Available Ships/Upgrades


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   So, I've been thinking about creating a variation in how Nations perform, based on ships and upgrades availability, the idea is the following...

 

   There would be several not rated ships available for all nations, like the smallest ones, up to the Mercury, but each nation would have their own 

rated ships for purchase... of course, an US player could have a british ship, but he would need to capture it... For instance, using the ships available right now as an example:

   

   The Victory, Bellona, Trincomalee and the Surprise would be only available for British players to purchase.

   The Santissima would be only available for Spanish players to purchase.

   The Constitution would be only available for US players to purchase.

 

   And etc..

 

   Disclaimer: This should only be implemented when EVERY nation has the equivalent ships... The US should have a Ship Of the Line somewhat equivalent to the Victory,

a 74 gunner equivalent to the Bellona, and a frigate equivalent to the Surprise... The same goes for French, Spanish, Dutch, Norwegian, and all future nations... The Pirates could

follow a diferent system, for instance, some people suggested that pirates should only be able to capture ships... That could work...

 

   The idea is that each nations should be stronger in a certain class... say for example "The Brits have awesome frigates, while the Spanish have really strong ships of the line",

but still having somewhat equivalent ships...

 

   And I think upgrades could vary in cost, while all upgrades should be available to all nations, maybe a british player would find speed upgrades for chaper money than the spanish,

while the spanish player would find cheaper crew upgrades... This could be based on history, so , say the real french ships had better armor, armor upgrades would be cheaper to french players..

 

 

  I think this would be the best way to give each nations pros and cons... While sticking to history...

Edited by felelo
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This isn't a strategy game, so there's no point pissing players off in pursuit of diverse factions. Especially if it sextuples the number of ships the game needs to be viable.

 

Not to mention, Trincomalee was largely a French design, so it would be strange to limit it to the English. There's nothing special about Bellona, and the there were other heavy frigates that carried 24-pdrs or 30 guns in the main battery like Constitution. Nations were always capturing each other's ships, refitting them in their own navies and copying the designs.

 

Frankly, the idea has no merit.

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   I don't think has nothing to do it the game being a strategy game or not, it is only a way to make factions more unique, and to give players a reason to choose between nations, other than by simply "preferring" one or another, or because of port locations. 

 

   

   I don't see why a player would be pissed of by it, as a lot of players already tend to capture instead of buying, just because right now ships are really expensive. I see your point about the Trincomalee, and that is really something to think about, I'm aware that not always one Nations navy would have its own design style, and I don't particularly know how that would work that case.

   I really don't see the point about the amount of ships, I can't see how a lot of ships would be a problem, ships are content, and having a lot of content is rarely a bad thing...

 

   About how the Constitution was unique, that is true, and thats an historical example of diference between nations back then, the americans were the only ones to have such heavy frigates(If I'm not wrong there were more frigates of that class). So it is not impossible to imagine that for various reasons diferent nations would have diferent navies.

 

   Other than that, we could find dozens of examples of games were diferent factions have diferent characteristics, so yeah, I'm not taking that out of my head at all, and in most cases this is actually very positive. I think that the point I'm trying to make is that, there should be diference between nations, and one should consider those diferences when choosing a faction.

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The only difference between nations are the ports. One day when the devs allow us to capture ports then you can let everybody know to join your nation and how special it is as it starts to take over the map!

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I really dont like the Idea of this one Sorry. I am playing as the Dutch at the moment and the only vessel I really want to sail is the Bellona. I don't want to have to play as a certain nation just to sail my favourite ship/s. I like the idea of each nation having some small bonus/s though, for example the Dutch could perhaps carry more Cargo in their Merchant ships, or a Nation could get a 2% increase in armour or reload speed ect... each having their own, very slight, bonuses. something like that would be nice, just enough to give each Nation some 'Unique-ness'. I also like the idea of having ship upgrades varying in quality depending on their Nation or Origin. Certain nations may be better/worse at producing upgrades. The same could be said for cannons! Some may reload faster, some may hit slightly harder, more accurate, less dispersion, more range ect ect.... Maybe even add Mastercraft Bronze Cannons!

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Samuel, I really do se your point, and I really like your ideas on upgrades and cannons.

On the Bellona matter,things like That are what make some level of ship mirroring really important, so for instance,the Dutch would have a ship very close to the Bellona, but with small disadvantages and advantages...

But why not consider the following, the Devs have been talking on something like a "Navy Career", where you sign up for the Navy, and after that you have to follow certain rules. Maybe, ship availability should be part of them, so, if you wanna buy a Constitution without being an US player, you only need not to sign up for your Navy... So ship availability would only be present in militar affairs...

I think this could be implemented gradually,so the devs wouldn't need rush and make loads of time consuming ships...and starting only after the main testing is done, so they can focus on more primordial and technical aspects of Naval Action...

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I really don't see the point about the amount of ships, I can't see how a lot of ships would be a problem, ships are content, and having a lot of content is rarely a bad thing.

 

It's amazing how often one feels the need to point out that game development... costs money.

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I would have to say to keep all ships available for every faction. This is one of those times that realism takes a back seat to gameplay. More ships for all equals a better experience for players and a greater incentive when it comes to putting time into playing.

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It's amazing how often one feels the need to point out that game development... costs money.

 

A solution to this would be to ask community members who want to perhaps take a bigger role in the game. To design their own ships (obviously this would be open to people who have experience in game design). Those ships would be free, maybe the majority won't be up to Naval Action standards, but a few might make the cut.

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A solution to this would be to ask community members who want to perhaps take a bigger role in the game. To design their own ships (obviously this would be open to people who have experience in game design). Those ships would be free, maybe the majority won't be up to Naval Action standards, but a few might make the cut.

There are certainly floodgates to be opened there, but as I recall PotBS basically had a full-time dev who handled the community's ship donations. And they all have to be finished and retrofitted, of course. Plus all the internal QA, because there will be no time for that when intensive development is going on.

At some point the devs might consider releasing tweaked models of existing ships to suit different tastes and tactical niches. For example, Constitution could easily be converted into President or United States, which had very different sailing qualities.

And giving Trinc a different stern, beakhead and a few rails would turn her into the French-built Hebe.

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There are certainly floodgates to be opened there, but as I recall PotBS basically had a full-time dev who handled the community's ship donations. And they all have to be finished and retrofitted, of course. Plus all the internal QA, because there will be to time for that when intensive development is going on.

 

At some point the devs might consider releasing tweaked models of existing ships to suit different tastes and tactical niches. For example, Constitution could easily be converted into President or United States, which had very different sailing qualities.

 

And giving Trinc a different stern, beakhead and a few rails would turn her into the French-built Hebe.

 

   Well, that'd be a really smart way of making lots of ships, I'm shure that most ships could easily serve as a model for diferent ships from other nations...

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I'm sorry but I completely disagree.

 

You want to give Nations the ships that were historically correct, but then you want to invent ships for nations that didn't have ships of particular classes so that all nations have ships of the same class ?  I really don't know what adding fictitious ships to a game would add that using the current or planned models wouldn't do just as well.

 

The only merit this post has is for Devs to consider ship naming and realistic colour schemes of ships so that nations or players could put their own stamp on them without changing the stats of a ship. (Eg classic Spanish sSntissima as it is in game, British player may prefer Black and Buff hull strakes etc.)

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I could see starting the nation off with ships specific to their nation which would mean that the US simply wouldn't have a ship of the line and only the Spanish would have a ship the size of the the Santi. In a scenario like this the nation is not restricted from those ships but rather if they want a ship like the Constitution then they have to capture one AND donate it to a ship builder who could research its construction, there by reproducing its design. In this way the nation has to advance and it provides depth to the ship builders.

 

The downside I think is that eventually all the major ship builders will be able to build all the ships and if that is the case then only in the opening of the game will the difference in national ships be apparent. If it only lasts for a couple months then would it simply be a false feature?

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I'm sorry but I completely disagree.

 

You want to give Nations the ships that were historically correct, but then you want to invent ships for nations that didn't have ships of particular classes so that all nations have ships of the same class ?  I really don't know what adding fictitious ships to a game would add that using the current or planned models wouldn't do just as well.

 

The only merit this post has is for Devs to consider ship naming and realistic colour schemes of ships so that nations or players could put their own stamp on them without changing the stats of a ship. (Eg classic Spanish sSntissima as it is in game, British player may prefer Black and Buff hull strakes etc.)

 

 

Crankey, sorry I did not make myself clear, I meant using the same 3d model as a base for other historical ships, not creating a new one from scratch, we all know that most ships of the period had a lot of similarities...

 

Hulls in general, for example, are very similar, some proportion tweaks here and there, can easily adapt a Victory's hull to a lot of other SOLs for shure, and I'd even bet that is already done to some extent on the game.

 

Anyway, I still insist that nations should have something differ from each other, to justify a player choosing a nation over the other, and I think that ship restriction to some level, would be a reasonable metod of creating such a balance...

 

Cheers

Edited by felelo
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I am the opinion that ships in game must be common and without great details (like the actual Pickle). The actual ships modelled with real ships details with the same name in their stern is a visual immersion destructor for me. But it is the alpha built of the game and not prioritary.

 

The ideal situation would be all ships in game were standard without special details (Pickle style) and based only in real ships. Remove all characteristic of real ships paintings, decorations etc. Then you can buy in game decorative modules and maybe make some decorations exclusive based in country but avoid real ships names. Then devs can sell real ships like premium maybe, but to see 100's of bellonas with name bellona writing in stern is immersion break.

 

In games is better not historical ships because if you want historical, you can't sail a real ships. Bellona can exist, but only like NPC. Not every player and his dog sailing the 100th HMS Bellona at same time. In WWI aviation sim many people wants real paintings but piloting the Red Baron plane... is a contradiction, realisticly only 1 man was Red Baron and only 1 plane was red with his number painting in fuselage. Here is the same, only 1 man can be the captain of Bellona at same time and that captain can not be a player because all people wants captain that particular ship.

 

I wish other ships, more 74's spanish like San juan Nepomuceno, San Ildefonso or Montañes. The same for other class. 112's like Santa Ana... etc. Now, for example, I can't imagine that I sail 1 San Ildefonso class because the only 74 in game has BELLONA put in big letters in stern and has great identificable decorations. But if in the future devs add modules with spanish style sterns, figureheads, paintjobs and personalization of name ships, I will can have more spanish style and personal ships.

 

Many of this spanish ships are fast too or have very good sailing, but they are not famous as english ships because Trafalgar was lost by Spain and France. The same for suggestions of some people for making english crews buffed recharging or spanish ones more numerous. For what reason? Only because one day in Trafalgar the english recharging more fast thanks to extensive training before the battle and spanish crews not? I say the same for every country in game of course and like Admin said, all man born equal.

 

The same for ships. The US only have the best option for that type of ship in that moment and they made it. If Constitution were in a geopolitical situation like we have in game now, she would be copied soon and all nations would had various of them or better, or maybe they never would construct that type of ship. But if we want Constitutions only for US, then US can not have bellonas or bigger. The same for other ships or countries in game.

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