Individual sail control

[Alex Connor]

Quite simply, be able to furl and unfurl individual sails be clicking on them with the mouse (hold Ctrl to free mouse).

 

 

Just click on sail to furl, click on furled sail to unfurl. Might have some highlight effect on the sail to be sure you are choosing the right sail, but not essential. Very simple system to use but gives players full control over the sails set on their ship (works in conjunction with the shortcuts for battle sails etc)

[OlavDeng2]

Nice, i have been waiting for something like this, will add more fine tuned control to your sailing

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

The problem here is that there isn't a "true" sail simulation running.  There are approximate formulas for how a rig acts in particular situations, but to permutate that to the dozens of sails, each of which could be furled or unfurled separately is outside of the scope of this game.  That sends you far more into needing a true tallship sailing simulator (and I understand from Maturin that even some that purport to do just that get it wrong) versus a fun sailing game.

[maturin]

 

The problem here is that there isn't a "true" sail simulation running.

 

True dat. Without modeling the complex effects of blanketing, lifting/depressing sails and sail height's effect on heel, individual sail control doesn't add much in the way of realism or player control.

 

 

But individual sail control could be a very valuable cosmetic feature for screenshot photographers and roleplayers. I personally think it is a huge boon to be able to recreate historical sail configurations, even if it doesn't provide any gameplay advantage.

 

Actually, implementation of individual sail control for cosmetic purposes should be quite simple. The game already tracks the surface area of each sail, and calculates your speed based on the surface area of each mast. Therefore, furling individual sails should be extremely easy to implement, so far as speed is concerned. Rig balance could simply be ignored for simplicity's sake. That is, if you furled all your mizzen mast sails, you would lose a proportional amount of speed, but your ship wouldn't gain the downwind turning advantage you would expect otherwise.

 

 

In other words, furling an individual sail would affect speed only, using the very same sail surface area calculations already in use for yard controls and battle damage. Handling of heel and roll would be grandfathered in under the same system with no extra work, AFAIK.

 

 

Imagine:

 

For sailing dead downwind. (Without the stunsails, of course)

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

As cosmetic only Maturin, that would work.  

[Alex Connor]

No reason not to add depth so long as the intuitive controls and accessibility we have now is not impacted.

 

Indeed, the best and simplest way to model sailing characteristics might well be to model the sails individually. Simple wind force value based on sail area for each sail, applied to ship movement. That force then varies by the sail's angle to wind (controlled by type of sail, IE square sail, staysail etc).

 

Then for fine details we have a multiplier for the effects on ship roll/heel (the higher the sail the more effect force applied to it will have on roll/heel), and a check for the sail being blanketed by others (if vector from center of sail to wind direction intersects another sail then force on sail reduced by 50-75%).

 

And lastly you have drag values for the ships hull, resistance to being pushed forwards, resistance to being pushed sideways (more the ship is heeling, less resistance to being pushed sideways) which controls how much leeway the ship will make.

 

I'm sure the likes of Maturin can fine tune details of how this system would work or point out errors, but it would allow very accurate sailing characteristics/damage modeling within a simple overall system that would be just as accessible for the end players as what we have now (indeed controls would be identical and for the most part control responses quite similar).

 

Edit: Last thing, ships without any force applied to their sails would have a strong rolling motion, up to a point force applied to the sails would then reduce the rolling motion.

 

Note: None of the above is needed to implement the original suggestion of being able to furl individual sails by clicking on them. 

[maturin]

 

No reason not to add depth so long as the intuitive controls and accessibility we have now is not impacted.

Well, development time and resources is the reason. I think the devs view the sailing model as good enough, given that the level of detail is already unprecedented in a game.

 

It's true that implementing individual sail control might not be terribly difficult, even with rig balance and heeling taken into account. But what would such a project get us? For reducing heel, the yard controls, W/S (and now T) keys are perfectly sufficient.

 

 

(indeed controls would be identical and for the most part control responses quite similar).

 

I think you've forgotten about jibs and spankers. If we can douse these sails and alter rig balance, we suddenly need new control in order  win a turning fight against an experienced player. We would need to be dowsing headsails and spankers left and right. This would be happening very quickly, in the heat of battle, and the workload of maneuvering ship would instantly increase by 50%. We already have to double-tap a pair of keys, so adding another sail control button would indeed complicate gameplay. Not to mention not looking very authentic.

 

 

The only non-cosmetic reason that individual sail control would be needed is if blanketing were a feature. Obviously, it's a feature I would love to see, but I only expect to in my dreams when Naval Action's GOTY package ships with a mod tools for a dedicated server version of the game.

 

Edit: Also lifting vs depressing sails, but ditto on the complexity.

[Alex Connor]

I think you've forgotten about jibs and spankers. If we can douse these sails and alter rig balance, we suddenly need new control in order  win a turning fight against an experienced player. We would need to be dowsing headsails and spankers left and right. This would be happening very quickly, in the heat of battle, and the workload of maneuvering ship would instantly increase by 50%. We already have to double-tap a pair of keys, so adding another sail control button would indeed complicate gameplay. Not to mention not looking very authentic.

 

Not at all. The overall controls would remain the same but there would be 4 things you can do in order to gain turning performance instead of 3. I don't see that as a problem. Same accessibility, slightly greater depth.

 

 

Well, development time and resources is the reason. I think the devs view the sailing model as good enough, given that the level of detail is already unprecedented in a game.

 

It's true that implementing individual sail control might not be terribly difficult, even with rig balance and heeling taken into account. But what would such a project get us? For reducing heel, the yard controls, W/S (and now T) keys are perfectly sufficient.

 

I do like the sailing mechanics, not very much left that could really be improved. If I had to pick one thing that is bugging me it would be the upwind performance of square riggers, but other than that no complaints.

 

What I really want to say is that the sailing mechanics we have now are the equivalent of damage model 3.0 vs what could be damage model 4.0. Do they work well? Yes. Better than anything that has come before? No question. But could they be even better? It's certainly possible.

[maturin]

 

Not at all. The overall controls would remain the same but there would be 4 things you can do in order to gain turning performance instead of 3. I don't see that as a problem. Same accessibility, slightly greater depth.

Well, as I said, it means you have to press (and monitor) three keys instead of two. I know that I already find it hard to control yard and rudder simultaneously when I'm in close action.