Please don't make us sink everything

[Frysiek]

Delete

[Steel]

I'm really liking all these ideas. Good game design requires that you give players choices with both risk and reward. Currently there will never be any point surrendering in the combat alpha and to be honest I like the sinking rate and a enjoy sinking enemy ships.   But i would like to throw my 2 penny's in with regard to how surrender will work in the open world. 

 

I feel if a ship sinks then you should lose it forever like in Eve. This lose is important as gives each battle a sense of danger. However if we are going to pay for ships with real money as it seems to be suggested with the yacht then losing a ship you pay $20 for would be very harsh and not fun. Regardless however if ships are bought with real cash or in game gold or reputation and insurance system could be used. For example if you ships sinks then its at the bottom of the sea and gone forever but you could strike the colours before that happens. If so then you ship would be captured by the enemy. The enemy would get a free ship or equivalent bounty and you would get your ship back at port maybe taking a hit reputation, gold or the equipment load out on the ship. The player must have a choice deny the enemy resource at a cost to there own or  surrender. 

 

Still this would cause a duplication of the ship being captured and could be exploited. After righting this I guess the main hing of the argument is how ships are procured. Will it be like star citizen where we have to pay real money to by ships or will it be available through the internal economy of the game, I hope the later myself but Game Labs need to make money some how. 

[Portsdown]

As a clue to of how hard it was to sink one of these ships, here is HMS Implacable (74) (formerly the French Duguay-Trouin, built 1800) being sunk in 1949.

http://youtu.be/f6InlOLpry0

Now she was more difficult to sink than a ship in battle - she had no guns and masts. Also the charges were set wrong and the ballast dropped out of her when they sent off. But she stayed afloat like that, a hazard to shipping, for 3 hours. And, whilst the Pathe film doesn't mention it, those 3 hours were under bombardment by vessels of the Royal Navy using WWII era armament. Even then significant parts remained afloat and posed a hazard to shipping until they were washed ashore.

I think this shows that, at the very least, 'sunk' ships should, in many cases, remain afloat and a hazard to players - possibly holding the remnants of their crew that could be rescued and used to bolster those of players of an appropriate side.

I'm very much in favour of some sort of 'Striking' mechanism.

For a start seamen were human and its very, very, rare for military units to continue to fight effectively beyond certain levels of losses. They were also a scarce resource - it took time to turn a Landsman, pressed or volunteer, into a seaman. Napoleon realised this and was very strict that British seamen should not be exchanged for French, as had been previous practise. Depending on the situation striking at least preserves your crew to assist your country at some putative later date.

One consideration that players could be presented with is that if they refuse to strike in a situation that warranted it they would get a reputation for it. The number and quality of men coming forward to form future crews (and, make no mistake, volunteers were an important source of men, especially for successful and popular Captains) and their morale (nobody likes to think that 'The Old Man' would waste their lives pointlessly) would all drop. So yes, you could refuse to Strike, but your reputation and future prospects would suffer.

[Portsdown]

Bumping this a bit with a quote from Herman Bumping this with a quote from Herman Melville (writing in 1850 about life in the US Navy) regarding Captain David Porter's refusal to strike his colours when it became clear all was lost at the Battle of Valparaiso (capture of the USS Essex and USS Essex Junior by HM Ships Phoebe and Cherub in 1814) hopeless.

He said that Porter was seeking to "crown himself with the glory of the shambles, by permitting his hopeless crew to be butchered before his eyes." and that "Nor, by thus continuing to fight, did this American frigate, one iota, promote the true interests of her country."

[Sir Cloudsley-Shovell]

Should you be so unlucky as to Strike Your Colours,how will that impact your place in the game?Obviously you lose your ship(due to either overwhelming odds or sheer incompatance)what happens next?Would there be a "Pool" of available Vessels to be reappointed to?

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

We don't quite know that yet Andy.  I'd like to see a system where striking to a superior force wouldn't cost you heavily in reputation, but that could be difficult to automate in code.

[Sir Cloudsley-Shovell]

I am REALLY taken with this game.Its so goddam brilliant so far and its only in Alpha!I shudder with excitement as to what the actual finished game will be like!