Ship customisation

[Wildfire]

Feel free to shoot this idea down in flames - I haven't quite decided how much I like this idea myself yet, but thought I'd share it to see what people make of it

 

At the heart, I want to try to get as much variation on the sea as possible. I played PotBS for many years, and at any given point in its history there was always one or two ships with one or two setups that were the best, hands down. I want to see a system where I don't know what I'm going to run into when I leave port. So...

 

What if a player could change the basic setup of a ship? People (myself included) tend to get stuck in this idea of 'X ship has x guns' or 'Y ship handles like this'

 

What if a trader could take a SoL and strip out all the guns to create a cavernous hauler that might intimidate pirates at a distance? Or a frigate captain could exchange some performance and cargo space for an extra gun or two, or perhaps lose a few guns in exchange for better handling characteristics?

 

I think that something like this, carefully implemented could potentially create quite a lot of diversity in gameplay.

 

Finally, I want to say that this thought is still at an early stage - I'm positing it because I'd like to hear people's thoughts on how it might (or might not) work

[Thomas Blackwell]

I like the idea of swapping out guns, for cargo space and handling. I would also like to be able to rename my ship, and see that ships new name appear painted upon the ship.

 

I would also enjoy things like fitting our ships with larger (or smaller) yards, rudders, guns, etc. To improve speed, firepower or handling. The trick is to not over-do it as this will negatively affect your ship rather than improve it. For example put too many guns that are too heavy and suffer damage every time you fire, as the guns are too heavy for your ships timbers to cope.

 

I think if the developers can make this game as surprising as possible for the players, that will ultimately work largely in their favour by keeping the game interesting for everyone.

[CompassRose]

I think a little unpredictability is a good thing, especially when it comes to impromtu engagements.  POTBS gave too much information with a simple mouse-over.  You knew the hull, structure, sail integrity right off the bat.  You essentially knew how a player had their ship rigged, and whether or not you were sufficiently fitted to counter a ship's strength, or expose its weakness.  I think it facilitated a lot of pre-determined engagements and that inhibited PvP in the long run.  Players and groups spent more time looking for that 'perfect matchup' than actually engaging in combat.

 

Subtle hints such as how the ship sits on the water line could give you clues as to how heavily it's laden.  Is it listing?  Has it possibly taken on water?  Is it damaged?  All of this information should reveal itself in layers as a player gets closer to the ship.

 

Different configurations on the same class of ship can certainly make engagements more unpredictable and dynamic.  I am 100% in favor of this.

[JasonG]

I feel this is a great suggestion and that it will certainly add an element of the unknown to a high seas encounter. Is that a fat juicy merchantman filled with loot, or armed to the teeth and able to not only fend me off but to turn the tables on me.

 

The ability to customise one's own ship to a variety of uses or equipment load outs for differing play styles is a fantastic idea marry that to a customisable crew and you will have the ability to make your ship unique to you wether it be a subtle customisation or a completley crazy build no one would even think of, it would be yours and yours alone.

 

Having a spyglass view of the ship that does not reveal detail really works for me in that ship recognition will be more of an art form with the player not having the magic knowledge that you would gain from mousing over a ship in POTBS.

[Thomas Blackwell]

I think a little unpredictability is a good thing, especially when it comes to impromtu engagements.  POTBS gave too much information with a simple mouse-over.  You knew the hull, structure, sail integrity right off the bat.  You essentially knew how a player had their ship rigged, and whether or not you were sufficiently fitted to counter a ship's strength, or expose its weakness.  I think it facilitated a lot of pre-determined engagements and that inhibited PvP in the long run.  Players and groups spent more time looking for that 'perfect matchup' than actually engaging in combat.

 

Subtle hints such as how the ship sits on the water line could give you clues as to how heavily it's laden.  Is it listing?  Has it possibly taken on water?  Is it damaged?  All of this information should reveal itself in layers as a player gets closer to the ship.

 

Different configurations on the same class of ship can certainly make engagements more unpredictable and dynamic.  I am 100% in favor of this.

 

I like where you're going with this, and perhaps this is not the place to make my opinions known, but I'm not sure I agree with the enemy ship stats... any stats. I feels that if I'm standing on my quarter deck and I see a sail upon the horizon, I want to have that sudden fizzle of excitement in my chest. I want to use my own judgment of what I think that ship is, what guns it is carrying, sailplan, etc. Again this alone will make pvp much more dynamic and unpredictable. As NA will require you to manually aim your cannons, I think it should require you to use your own skills prior to the engagement also.

[CompassRose]

I like where you're going with this, and perhaps this is not the place to make my opinions known, but I'm not sure I agree with the enemy ship stats... any stats. I feels that if I'm standing on my quarter deck and I see a sail upon the horizon, I want to have that sudden fizzle of excitement in my chest. I want to use my own judgment of what I think that ship is, what guns it is carrying, sailplan, etc. Again this alone will make pvp much more dynamic and unpredictable. As NA will require you to manually aim your cannons, I think it should require you to use your own skills prior to the engagement also.

 

When I said 'information' I guess I should have been more specific.  Visual information is what i had in mind.  How close do you have to get before the rendering makes it possible to tell if a ship is listing.  Not a hard-coded number value that says:  'this ship currently has X gallons of water in its bilge.'  But yes, less information (data)....move 'visual inference'.

[Thomas Blackwell]

When I said 'information' I guess I should have been more specific.  Visual information is what i had in mind.  How close do you have to get before the rendering makes it possible to tell if a ship is listing.  Not a hard-coded number value that says:  'this ship currently has X gallons of water in its bilge.'  But yes, less information (data)....move 'visual inference'.

 

Perfect! What about the name of the captain? Personally I think knowing who you won/lost against should remain a secret until the end of an engagement. Back in the day, a captain did not know who exactly he was fighting until one of them sat down to dinner with the other. No username floating above the ship, etc.

[TheDamDog]

Having the ability to nail opposing captains to your bow would be pretty great.

[Thomas Blackwell]

Having the ability to nail opposing captains to your bow would be pretty great.

 

...

[ussafropuff]

As far as the username goes I liked that because you get some pretty huge rivalries going on the seas and you want to get revenge when you get sunk but you wouldn't have the ability to go find the one that sunk you. But then I suppose I would be playing more to try and find the one that got me. I also agree less information the better as far as the stats of the ship. The more adjustability you make for the ships the when eventually the societies will find the optimum setup for the ships the newer players will be at even a more disadvantage than they already would be. Don't get me wrong I do like where you are going with this I'm just playing the negative nancy to try and get a look from both positives and negatives

[Thomas Blackwell]

As far as the username goes I liked that because you get some pretty huge rivalries going on the seas and you want to get revenge when you get sunk but you wouldn't have the ability to go find the one that sunk you. But then I suppose I would be playing more to try and find the one that got me. I also agree less information the better as far as the stats of the ship. The more adjustability you make for the ships the when eventually the societies will find the optimum setup for the ships the newer players will be at even a more disadvantage than they already would be. Don't get me wrong I do like where you are going with this I'm just playing the negative nancy to try and get a look from both positives and negatives

 

Well usernames would not be visible during combat, however once a ship had been captured or sunk, there could be an after battle report for both captains with the name of their enemy on. 

 

ie; 

 

Battle Status: Victory

Enemy Captain: Theodore Blackwell

Shots Taken:

Shots Fired:

Crew Killed (friendly)

Crew Killed (Enemy)

Crew Wounded (Friendly)

Crew Wounded (Enemy)

Repairs Needed: 

etc. etc.

 

This way you would not only see the person you just fought against, but have an after action report you can save.

 

Secondly, societies will undoubtedly find the best possible fits for particular ships, but with so many ships, each with more then a single role to play, it would be almost impossible to fit a ship to counter every possibility at sea. You have the same issues in EVE Online. New players fit mining lasers to their battleships and wonder why a cruiser can kill them, but thats all part of the learning curve. You are completely right though, new players will be at a serious disadvantage, unless they research ship fittings online or join a society. Basically they have to play the game in order to be good at it.

[ussafropuff]

But in order to the find that person again you just have to get in 50 more battles and hope that it is him or maybe he has a distinct design on his ship to identify him?

 

A lot of new players do need to learn to research the game better. Maybe it could be explained better or more in-depth in the game to help the along. The pros and cons of having more guns and all the other adjustments so they have somewhat of an understanding.

[Thomas Blackwell]

But in order to the find that person again you just have to get in 50 more battles and hope that it is him or maybe he has a distinct design on his ship to identify him?

 

A lot of new players do need to learn to research the game better. Maybe it could be explained better or more in-depth in the game to help the along. The pros and cons of having more guns and all the other adjustments so they have somewhat of an understanding.

 

Well, the devs could introduce an admiralty 'intelligence network' so to speak. Where if you really want to find a person, you can pay the admiralty to tell you what port the captain in question was last seen in. For example, lets say you destroy my brig with another brig. I buy a frigate, and pay the admiralty to tell me where you were last spotted. After say 24 hours in-game, I get a report from the admiralty telling me you were last spotted in Le Havre. I am a British Captain so I can't go to Le Harve, so I patrol around that area of the channel in hopes of finding you. If you are still in your brig, I will probably recognize you, however because the admiralty does not get back to me immediately, it gives you time to slip away before I can arrive. Not to mention even if I arrive and find you, you could still out run me, or bring friends to fight me off.

 

It's a pretty rough description, but I think with a bit of refinement it could be a very nice feature for both Angry people and privateers hunting down wanted pirates.

 

As for new players, I'm sure the devs will eventually implement a tutorial of some kind that goes over the basics. They may also add in more advanced tutorials that explain everything about fitting your ship. What to do and what not to do.

[maturin]

Realistically speaking,anyone born to the sea would be able to recognize a particular ship in most cases, without the aid of looking at the name. So if you've met before, displaying the name of the vessel is appropriate.

 

And the largest scope for customaization would be in the rig, although the idea of removing guns is a good one.

 

Just remember that the devs are unlikely to implement anything demanding a change in model, and I would be opposed to the POTBS state of affairs, where the model of a 32-gun frigate would fire ghostly cannon balls from 40 guns.

[aethervox]

Customization opens a whole 'can of worms' as I see it. Sure, it would be great to play with sail area, hull designs, cannon numbers and types plus crew training, naming of vessels (a chrome idea), etc. Players will want this so that they aren't confined to just 'historical' vessels. However, most ship types and/or classes that this game will eventually incorporate will be based on historical precendents simply because, through 'historical trial and error' only certain design parameters worked and/or were found to be cost effective. So, let us have our cake (historical vessels and battles) and eat it too (player built fantasy vessels)!

Regardless, I want to play a 73+ (all the vessels inc the single deckers) player re-enactment of the Battle of Trafalgar for one and, secondly, a way to play my very own game built single, double, triple & even a four decker (a la the Santa Navidad). BTW - I have the out of print 'Trafalgar Board Game (only four ships aside & very simple but what great fun it is/was deciding on whether to fire at masts/sails or guns.

[TheDamDog]

...

Hey, it happened.  Old Blackbeard got his head hung from the bowspirit.  I imagine similar fates befell other notorious figures.

[Jack Lowe]

Well I certainly do hope they allow a reasonable degree of customization to the ships. However how far it will go and to what degree it will affect the physical appearance of the ship will depend on the amount of resources required to do so I would imagine. Now they've already got what might be considered a classic 38 gun frigate and they have the HMS Surprise. So theoretically it should be possible to take the main mast of the 38 and place it on Surprise and have the mod. mentioned in Patrick's books. Doing so and having it look proper from an art and design standpoint may not prove to be so simple. Same thing with switching out say 12 lb long guns for 24 lb cannonades. The visual changes and the number of different ways a ship can be modified may prove to time consuming to render.

 

This leads to the other topic mentioned, how we receive information about a ship at sea. I'm not fond of the POTBS method either, not in the least for the same reasons already stated. Therefore we could do it visually if the necessary rendering doesn't prove to difficult, or we could use a range triggered component. At a certain range your able to tell certain things about a ship, not absolute numbers but estimates, part of a captains skill might involve the accuracy of those estimates in some fashion or another, and still need not include hard numbers. Something like a damaged hull sitting low in the water, or seeing a top mast shot away might be available. Perhaps estimates on the number and type of guns, whether she's cleared for action, different things that would be noticeable at a given range and useful to the captain to know.

 

The last topic I noticed had to do with information about individual ships, including who's the captain, and finding said vessel. Well I I tend to think that utilizing the ports in some fashion or another is a good way to do this. If a captain spends enough time in an area and is active he's certain to be noticed. In fact using such information was how a captain would get the lay of the land so to speak. He might know a certain ship or ships was in a certain broad area. He would then go to that area and acquire local news. He might also find out specifics about a ship from knowledgeable observers, check into any activities such as upgrades, how long ago it sailed and to where it was heading. Utilizing ports in such a way might well be a way to give a captain something to do on an otherwise long voyage, even if his intent is simply to avoid trouble. Other things would have to be included of course but it's a thought directed toward another topic in another thread. That being how long travel time should take and how to keep long voyages interesting. Of course a captain could forgo this... sail into the unknown and hope for the best. If something unfortunate should befall him such as meeting a squadron of enemy 74's well........

[Ned Loe]

I would like to see customization in these parts of the ship:

 

1. Figurehead

2. Ship Name on the back

3. Wheel

4. Paint

5. Sails

6. Sail patterns 

7. Guns

8. Flags

[admin]

regarding names of the ship

how should we treat the famous ships

 

for example should a player be able to rename a ship from lets say HMS Surprise to XXPwnmasterXX? 

or ships should keep the names the game gave them.

[Jack Lowe]

Well let's look at the USS Constitution. It's the best known frigate of the type but it wasn't the only ship built along those lines just the most famous. Therefore allowing unique ship names shouldn't be a problem IMO. Perhaps including the rate or class if it is preferred would be a good idea to prevent confusion. My understanding is that most ships went by rate not class but perhaps a exception for the famous ones could be made. If this is acceptable then a similar treatment could be given to the others even if only one of that hull design was historically built, there will be many of that design in game. It will be a necessary and inevitable departure from history but only a small one. Individual ship names would also be useful as a means of identifying certain players on the OS. Which should be a consideration. Meaning if it is decided to go with individual ship names and displaying them at what point should that information become available to an observer. Potentially having an influence on strategy and tactics and overall combat. 

[CompassRose]

regarding names of the ship

how should we treat the famous ships

 

for example should a player be able to rename a ship from lets say HMS Surprise to XXPwnmasterXX? 

or ships should keep the names the game gave them.

 

That's a bit of a Pandora's Box but a great question.

 

On the one hand, when looking at the USS Constitution it was one of six frigates to be built on the Joshua Humphries model 44-gun frigate.  So while the Constitution itself was the most famous out of the six, there was the Unites States, President, Congress, Chesapeake, and the Constellation.  If 6 teammates were rolling around in that frigate, it WOULD be pretty cool to see each of them take a different name to represent all 6 of those frigates.

 

Most of the most famous ships in history weren't one of a kind in design, they were one of many that were built off of the same design.  It was the ship's actions and service record that distinguished them apart from their siblings.  So while I'm respectful of the iconic status that the ship's name bestows on your individual designs, I'm open to a certain degree of compromise.

 

On the other hand, seeing XXPwnmasterXX on the back of the USS Constitution would completely ruin my immersion.  It was the same in POTBS every time I saw a pirate sail by with some variation of 'Jack Sparrow' as his name (Sparrow Jack, Sac Sparrow, Jac Sparoww...)

[Jack Lowe]

.

 

On the other hand, seeing XXPwnmasterXX on the back of the USS Constitution would completely ruin my immersion.  It was the same in POTBS every time I saw a pirate sail by with some variation of 'Jack Sparrow' as his name (Sparrow Jack, Sac Sparrow, Jac Sparoww...)

Now I hadn't considered that part. Must of slipped by me when I read the dev's question. Yes your quite right some one will undoubtedly name their 44 gun frigate FPS FUZZBALL or some other ridiculous name. I quite agree although it may at times bring some humor to the game ultimately that well would run dry. Unless the name required an approval of some sort player, or dev sponsored I don't see much of a way to have one without the other. Can't always have our cake and eat it too I'm afraid. Still even with that potential problem I must remain in favor of the idea of individually named ships.

[Ned Loe]

regarding names of the ship

how should we treat the famous ships

 

for example should a player be able to rename a ship from lets say HMS Surprise to XXPwnmasterXX? 

or ships should keep the names the game gave them.

You should keep the real names , but add ability to change them as an option. Back then people named their ships the way they wanted, so why we can't name them the way we want them these days? In addition, if you want to add sail, flag, figurehead, cannons customization, this will not be the same looking ship anymore and will require a new name))) SO, its up to a player to decide if he wants to stay classic of go create a new looking ship with a new legendary name..!! In case someone names their ship XXPwnmasterXX, well this will only be visible if you get close to a ships stern and/or use a spy glass to read it. Ship name should not be stated in a ship info window (spyglass feature). I do not see a big issue here...

[Ned Loe]

Now I hadn't considered that part. Must of slipped by me when I read the dev's question. Yes your quite right some one will undoubtedly name their 44 gun frigate FPS FUZZBALL or some other ridiculous name. I quite agree although it may at times bring some humor to the game ultimately that well would run dry. Unless the name required an approval of some sort player, or dev sponsored I don't see much of a way to have one without the other. Can't always have our cake and eat it too I'm afraid. Still even with that potential problem I must remain in favor of the idea of individually named ships.

Well believe me, if you take that option away you will see 100s Victory rates in 1 battle which makes no sense. I believe you will leave a lot of players upset if you will not include name option, trust me...same names over and over again...boringgg.

[Baggywrinkle]

Is there some centre ground? Do you think allowing a player to pick a name from a list of historical/appropriate names would strike an acceptable balance? Not a huge fan of the idea, just throwing it out there.

 

If you end up a navy man do you get to choose and/or name your command, or are you assigned to it?