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Open world: Combat, Rules of Engagement, Damage, Bot combat AI discussions

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should Friendly NPC join the combat with me when I in their range?

and should we know the side of the battle before we join? like 1 ship of french and 3 ships of spain or somthing similar

 

 More:

Bot focus too much on player, and forget about bots from other side, every time I play, the bot always focus at me.

Tendency of sniper in bots. they always stay at 800 to 1k range to shot each other or player

Edited by Doschichis

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Found a game braking bug ( or it can be ) when you attack a npc say in a brig and you start of picking of his crew for few rounds then boar and there you will loose a lot of your sailors.

Then wen you are back on the ow sea you got 100% crew again and you can do this again and again.

 

Auto fill on your crew in the middle of the see is a bit silly make players go to port to replenish there crew or this can be come one of the tings players exploit.

 

I do get that if you are in a close fight and you don't have the man power to sail your ship can be nasty but its better option hit the next pub and round up sailors that s how it was back then  

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Set an AI Surprise on fire with a chaser shot to stern early in a fight. The Surprise then proceeded to burn until exploding. The explosion totally dismasted the ship and reduced all structure to nearly nothing, but only killed at most 5 crew (2% of total), probably less as I didn't note any initial casualties! The ship then proceeded to rapidly repair to more than 50% sail and structure. This is very strange. It would imply that an explosion results in a fixed amount of HP damage that if suffered early in the fight by a larger ship can be compensated for by repairing.

I would prefer to see fires as rare occurrences and explosions even rarer, but when explosions due happen they result in guaranteed loss of the ship. Also, AI should use survivability mode to avoid inevitable blow-up. However, ships that have suffered crew loss should have increasing penalties to fire-fighting ability. Catastrophic explosions would then be the result of a narrow set of factors:

1. Ship is on fire and player ignores fire. (damage over time followed by catastrophic explosion)

2. Ship is on fire and in survival mode, but has suffered crew casualties to the point that it can no longer keep up with fire. (damage over time followed by catastrophic explosion)

3. Ship is not on fire but suffers a direct penetration into the magazine. However, penetration alone would not be sufficient to generate an explosion with "cold shot" (rather than shot heated in a furnace). Each penetration into the magazine would need to have a % chance of generating an explosion due to random factors such as striking metal and generating a spark, striking a lamp, carrying burning materials into the magazine, etc. (instant catastrophic explosion)

In regards to fire (as discussed in another thread), baseline per hit chance could be much, much smaller. However, there could be a number of factors that could increase the chance of fire on hit, although it should still probably be less than current baseline:

-hit ship is using sail setting greater than battle sails (more inflammable material near deck)
-cannon hit directly is in the process of reloading (high chance of exposed powder charge)
-hit ship is fired on from less than 50 yards (chance of burning material from firing cannons being brought aboard)
-disorder penalty for heavily damaged / decrewed ships
-ship is being hit with "heated shot" (this could be a feature of some fortifications)

-all other factors equal, larger shot should have a higher chance of generating a fire

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I've got to say this again:

 

1. The new smoke makes you almost unable to see where your shots hit. Why is that? It is just annoying.

 

 

2. The starting ships are so hard to sail, considering heeling and so on, that that will discourage new players quickly. (if it annoys me, it will annoy actual newbies a lot)

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I feel Smoke is a bit thick for a Single Range Shot..maybe not as much smoke for single shots and a large cloud for Broadsides...

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Problem with smoke is that on smaller ships camera is right above canons, on a surprise it does not mater so much since ranging shoots start from one side so there is a line of sight to target. maybe give more elevation to telescope on smaller ships to see above the smoke, or reduce smoke for smaller canons because as far as i can tell there is no difference in smoke generated by different caliber guns.

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What are players opinions on the circle marker when you get tagged, I feel it is maybe a tad too large and could be 20% smaller.  This will cause traders a severe headache when trying to escape on release.

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A lot of avoiding being attacked is seeing them coming as early as possible and identifying that they're going to be a threat then keeping away from them before they can even get within range to tackle you. Not always possible mind you ;)

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Is there any plan on matching open world time (day/night) to the combat instances?  I enter a battle spotted from OW at night, and jump in to a battle instance also at night.  I have never seen it happen yet, and, as I had never seen a night battle in Sea Trails.....only really big dark storms...does night exists in instances at all yet?  And, although I haven't seen it yet, the same goes for weather in the instance (I've heard the storms do match).

 

One other item.  I've had two occasions when I entered the combat instance to check out a ship on my side (British) that the Hail said was carrying Contraband Goods. 

 

First issue.  How in the world would I or my lookout know that from the OW?  Issue two.  Once I entered the instance there were no mechanics in place to signal the ship (an AI I'm sure) to heave to to be boarded.  I guess a single shot across the bow would be traditional, but it still would not effect the AI's action.

 

Second issue: My forced solution.  So, with the help of a more advanced player, I ran up alongside the AI Trader Brig and proceeded to grapeshot the bejesus out of him until I could safely board and capture him.  I felt rather bad having to kill all those fellow British seamen just to be able to board and carry out an inspection (sure, if he was dirty I would have capture him anyway, but the logic of the situation is not developed properly yet for this action).  Got the ship, got the experience points, got the gold, but thought I would now be a pirate after that.  Wasn't turned in to a pirate, but thought any minute now and bam...the black flag on my home screen.

 

Funny thing.  The next ship I found was a Trader Snow, also carrying Contraband Goods.  Jumped right in to take this smuggler, popped into the instance and proceeded to get my little lynx shot full of holes by what I thought was going to be an unarmed merchant!  Not only was he full of guns, this merchant crew must have been made up of retired gun captains from the Royal Navy as not a single shot of his missed!  I grabbed my Navy ensign and hauled my butt away from this target at full sails.

 

Suggestions or comments....or just wisecracks in response?

 

Thanks,

 

Dean

(poosd)

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Trader Snows have 3 18lb carronades on each side of the quarterdeck.  Approach with caution in a small ship as they've also hired crack Navy Gunnery Masters with experienced teams to serve them.

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Trader Snows have 3 18lb carronades on each side of the quarterdeck.  Approach with caution in a small ship as they've also hired crack Navy Gunnery Masters with experienced teams to serve them.

I found that one out the hard way. "Oh look 3 guns a side. I have 4! Prepared to be rekt!"

 

 

 

 

People got rekt ;-;

Edited by Capt Aerobane

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I've just been in combat with my Lynx and two larger allies vs. a single Snow AI and don't understand why the Snow almost exclusively targeted me. Even when I wasn't the closest to him. In fact twice he tried to manoeuvre past the others to try to get to me!

Life is hard enough for a Lynx without being picked on by AI.

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Two groups are fighting each other.  You are boarded, and lose the boarding combat, your ship now flies a white flag.  Your friends, meanwhile, defeat everyone, leaving your ship there with a white flag.  Why can you not regain your captured ship?  The enemy boarded it, but they lost the battle, leaving it by itself.  Your friends are your friends, they'd like you to have your ship back (let's say, for fluffy reasons, they liberated you from your imprisonment).

 

If your ship is lost in boarding combat, but not captured by the enemy, who then loses the match, you should be able to regain your ship if it's still afloat at the end of the battle.

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this report represents my own opinion only and i'll probably change my mind about some points. my words can sound harsh and direct but that is because i care about this game and dont want to sugarcoat my feedback.

 

sailing and shooting in battles:

 

i like the slower turning and de-/acceleration, it gives you a credible impression of sailing a wooden ship and the ability to lock yard movements compensates well for their inertness.

the only thing i felt missing was lee drifting but this is not of big importance.

 

one point im not sure of is the relation between reload of the guns and turning/acceleration, the choice between shooting twice with the same broadside versus flipping sides is an important balancing issue. right now (disregarding modules!) it seems to be ok

 

aiming of the guns dissatisfy me very much. it is the main reason fights dont give me the same feeling of fun like in sea trials 1. it is not hard to plan your mouse movements beforehand but it doesnt give you a sufficient sense of response (even if it may be historical). the strong widening of the aiming arc combined with the drastic increase of shot spreading dulls the fighting experience.

in sea trials many have critized the high precision of the guns which empowered long range kiting with chain and ball on leeward side making it almost impossible to counter and assured a demasting option. the increase of the shot spread (decrease of precision) now is actually quite good (i even wouldnt mind a higher one at long ranges) and eases those problems but the aiming time is to long to be enjoyable. especially in close combat it is an annoyance.

 

the percieved curving of the ball due the movement of the ship adds to the challenge of leading a target at range which before was mainly a vertically issue.

 

the heavy smoke was confusing at the beginning but after a bunch of fights you will get accustomed to it.

 

the change in repairs was great and is more natural now, but maybe remove the rudder/pump repairs as those parts have a higher hp now which even can be reinforced trough modules. but i'm not sure on this point. the speed of repairs is to fast, especially when boosted trough modules.

 

ricochets are a sensible game mechanic but poorly implemented. even if not taking the weight of guns versus the thickness of enemys armor in consideration the shots get deflected to often at reasonable angles. i think that high caliber / close range - shots shouldnt get deflected at more than  15° or 20° (max 30° with heavy and hard armor) . ricochets at 45° and high caliber guns getting deflected from a lynxes side look silly and unbelievable.

 

gun loss seems to be very high especially with grape shot. maybe reduce the hitbox model for guns a bit or at least give it more resistance to grape shot.

 

random stuff:

 

i guess you guys are already working on stuff like a battle timer which closes the instance after a while.

 

smaller ships shouldnt be able to push heavier ships that much

 

you can lock bots in the irons e.g.: being windward and show your bow to AI's bow, they should make a decision when tacking and keep to it before they lose to much speed.

 

modules (besides stacking) give to much precentage of a bonus, especially critical ones like: repairs, reload, turning and acceleration. these things shouldnt going up to 20%, leave those things in potbs, such big increases in vital areas can throw the balance way off. keep those strong boni hidden in unique ships and not in modules

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Was wondering if repairs should only be able to be used when in survival mode and if you come out of survival mode while the repair is active it stops. This would simulate you having crew allocated to doing the repairs which means less crew to sail and reload.

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I would like to add 2 scenarios that are questionable and in my opinion need to be solved regarding rules of engagement.

 

1. If I am being pursued by a slightly faster ship in OW I can initiate an instance as soon as he gets in range to do so thus spawning us in a relative position in instance that is a lot greater than range of his chasers. Once the instance is over I can then with invisibility get to a near port or find an NPC of different nationality to engage. I propose making maximum distance between players at the start that of range of long canons. 

 

2. A player transporting something valuable can bring along a buddy of different nationality to initiate instance and escape possible ganks from all other nations. Only way i can see of this being fixed is allowing multiple nations in a battle. 

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Was wondering if repairs should only be able to be used when in survival mode and if you come out of survival mode while the repair is active it stops. This would simulate you having crew allocated to doing the repairs which means less crew to sail and reload.

 

For the longest time, I was convinced that repairing in survival mode gives you more repair.  Apparently it doesn't, but maybe a survival mode bonus (or non survival mode nerf) might reward you for switching but still allow some flexibility.

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2. A player transporting something valuable can bring along a buddy of different nationality to initiate instance and escape possible ganks from all other nations. Only way i can see of this being fixed is allowing multiple nations in a battle. 

I don't understand why there is a limit of 2 nations in a battle. Was there a discussion of this topic in another thread?

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Please explain how different modes work actually and how using them:

dm-HP7FHCEX.jpg

 

 

random: how you shot your gun before the patch,

front: you fire from bow to stern

back: you fire from stern to bow

Edited by Doschichis

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What happens when one logs off on the open sea? I logged off yesterday twice on the os. The first time was only for a few minutes. When I logged in again in a few minutes I was in combat. I quickly sank the inferior ship and went on my way. The second time I was off for a couple of hours. When I logged in I was in port with the loss of a durability. If there is going to be a delay where we are vulnerable to attack we should remain auto logged until the timer is up so we can defend ourselves.

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What happens when one logs off on the open sea? I logged off yesterday twice on the os. The first time was only for a few minutes. When I logged in again in a few minutes I was in combat. I quickly sank the inferior ship and went on my way. The second time I was off for a couple of hours. When I logged in I was in port with the loss of a durability. If there is going to be a delay where we are vulnerable to attack we should remain auto logged until the timer is up so we can defend ourselves.

 

Apparently you continue in the world for 10 minutes.  This is a really, really long time given the distances between ports and reduction in neutral ports.  I would suggest that it should be 10 minutes OR instant if no hostile ships are within visual range in OW (whatever that radius is).

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