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HMS Surprise hauled out for repairs


NorthernWolves

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I must wonder, are those propellers on the underside original, or were they added later? I had always assumed those propellers corresponded with engines, or did they have uses before the creation of steam engines and the likes? 

 

All modern ships are required to have a motor, even replicas.

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All modern ships are required to have a motor, even replicas.

 

Nearly all modern ships have a motor, but they are not specifically required to.  Many racing boats lighten their load and reduce drag by not having a motor (and are often towed in and out of port), and many smaller day sailors are engine-less.  One tall ship that I can think of has sailed since she was launched in 1964 without an engine, the 108' square tops'l schooner Shenandoah (pictures below).  She is based on the 1850 design of the revenue cutter Joe Lane, though modified a bit to the captain's taste.  She often sails with a crew of 11 year old students.

344.jpg

ml_shenandoah_cradle.jpg

 

Tres Hombres is a hermaphrodite brig that carries 'emmision free' cargo across the Atlantic without an engine.

tres-hombres-3-ships-19212.jpg

P9060809.jpg(best haul out image I could find of her to show the lack of propeller)

 

There is also Star of India, though she rarely sails and always with an escort able to tow her.  And the Charles W. Morgan also sailed recently with a tug escort.  So, while it is not law that ships MUST have an engine, it is nearly universal due to safety concerns and the necessity for most of these boats to keep a modern day schedule.

Edited by AKPyrate
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I thought I had heard the reason why several replica ships have a motor is because the US Coast Guard requires them. Maybe that was just the excuse why a replica ship decided to have one installed?

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Any ships that are licensed to carry passengers, not just crew, but passengers in any modern 1st world country are required to have engines.  Tres Hombres is owned in the Netherlands but has been registered in Cape Town south africa because of the lax shipping laws there, in order to operate commercially without an engine.  Surprise has an engine because she at one time was a registered sailing school vessel with the USCG and the engine is required for that.  Although when brand new as the Rose, she was built without one, before she started sail training.  

 

That being said I wish you could still build commercial ships without motors in 1st world countries.

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Poor Surprise, that ship is in such a sad state.  It would cost less to build a new one that to rebuild her back to coast guard approval.  Some of her structural members are little better than sawdust these days, but she was built in 69, shes had a good life.

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I must wonder, are those propellers on the underside original, or were they added later? I had always assumed those propellers corresponded with engines, or did they have uses before the creation of steam engines and the likes? 

A closely-held secret at the Admiralty at the time, the Surprise was modified in 1802 to use an experimental treadmill connected via a gearing to one of two screws mounted on either side of her rudder.   Sailors would capture rats and place them into a 5-ft long rotating cylinder, which would turn one or the other screw as the animals climbed up the side of the cylinder.

 

Contrary to modern speculation, the intent was never to use the system as a form of propulsion, but rather to simply turn a becalmed ship to bring her guns to bear on an enemy without placing the crew into boats or resorting to springs on her anchor cables.   This would be a decided advantage in battle when the wind failed -- hence the ship's name.

 

During the first sea-trial the experiment was abruptly cancelled as a failure.   After the first gun was fired, the rat-pack lost all cohesion, ceasing to run in the same direction, and could not be relied on to turn the treadmill.

 

 

Isn't alternative history fun?  Wonder why they didn't try it with sailors?

 

(At sea, in the doldrums, making stuff up...)

Edited by Lt. Obiquiet
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HMS Surprise has had a long life and i would be happy to see her return to a state in which that you could sail on bord her again and see what life was back then to life on a ship of the sail.

 

Also i loved watching the film that she was in ( Master and Commander far side of the world ). ;)  ;)

Edited by HMS Scatter
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Poor Surprise, that ship is in such a sad state.  It would cost less to build a new one that to rebuild her back to coast guard approval.  Some of her structural members are little better than sawdust these days, but she was built in 69, shes had a good life.

A great life, yes.

The buildings of the French Navy all classes between 1650 and 1850, have a mean service life of only 16 years !!!!!!!!

So the HMS Surpise is a grandmother.

:)

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Any ships that are licensed to carry passengers, not just crew, but passengers in any modern 1st world country are required to have engines.  Tres Hombres is owned in the Netherlands but has been registered in Cape Town south africa because of the lax shipping laws there, in order to operate commercially without an engine.  Surprise has an engine because she at one time was a registered sailing school vessel with the USCG and the engine is required for that.  Although when brand new as the Rose, she was built without one, before she started sail training.  

 

That being said I wish you could still build commercial ships without motors in 1st world countries.

 

Shenandoah carries passengers in the United States and is engineless.  Ultimately, I think it comes down to common sense for most tall ship schedules, as well as the added safety margin.  Engines make boats safer and more reliable.  Personally, though I admire those who sail without an engine backup, I always like the reassurance of 'iron wind' to get me through doldrums, emergencies, and docking in modern marinas!

Edited by AKPyrate
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16 year usable life!

 

Amazing that what with the materials and man hours involved in a single frigate they could justify the cost. Anyone ever see a stat on what percentage of GDP went to support the RN or French fleet in any given year?

Edited by Paraclete
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16 year usable life!

 

Amazing that what with the materials and man hours involved in a single frigate they could justify the cost. Anyone ever see a stat on what percentage of GDP went to support the RN or French fleet in any given year?

 

I'm pulling this out of a fuzzy memory, but a book I read on the 6 US Frigates said something like 83% of every Pound in England went to the Navy around 1810 or so.

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Of course, in the 18th century states' non-military spending was miniscule.

 

France had quite a few aggravating factors for short-lived vessels. I know that Britain built many warships out of unseasoned wood during wartime crash-building programs. The ships weren't expected to last long. And then the French lost their vessels to the Royal Navy at a high rate, as well as being of light construction that saw hulls wear out after a few years of Atlantic service.

 

On the other hand, a whaleship built in the 1760s in Philadelphia served her owners for 120(!) years, much of it being squeezed clear out of the water atop Arctic ice.

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