Statistics - what do you want us to track

[Agin]

Less statistics the better!

Please dont turn this into another WoT, where players would screw the teams battle strategy just to improve the stats a bit.

[LeBoiteux]

No individuel statistics : make it a team game. Only statistics for your country, team, clan or guild : make the team win / being wealthier, not the player.

The only thing I want to know about a player is : his country, his "job" (merchant, privateer...).

If whatever statistic will be available, I think the hashed bitmasks used as keys in EVE are really worth looking at. For me personally? No statistics please. Statistics have a negative impact on a game and gameplay if you ask me.

~Brigand

+1.

 

Nothing. Or make it for personal view only. Why I am against leaderboards and things like that? In my experience from other games (will use War Thunder as an example - since there this problem is extremely evident), these can be very damaging to overall gameplay. In War Thunder you have this leaderboards and personal statistics card. This caused people to get more and more obsessed with their stats and being high on the leaderboard. Obsessed to the point that a very common occurance was this: a person went into the battle, flew quickly towards enemy AIs, killed them which took absolutely 0 effort, then cameback and left the game to not get shot down. Afterwards they would boast about their excellent K/D ratio. This effectively left their team handicapped for the rest of the game and spoiled the game for everyone. What's most interesting is that there were absolutely no rewards for having good stats.

 

What I would suggest is having statistics like those mentionad by Wind (excellent suggestions I must say), but for personal view only. For general view and measuring players effectivenes I would like to see them converted into some sort of 'renown points' in general areas like exploration, privateering, commerce etc. Those point would show up as 'renown rank' like novice merchant -> established merchant -> wealthy merchant. Something like in Guild Wars 1 maybe, where I think it worked pretty well. I'm sure I saw a more in depth topic on the forums about having renown, so won't dig deeper into it.

 

I know that this may seem like minor issue but, from my unpleasant experiences, if handled badly, this may turn out into a problem for gameplay. Although the statistics may seem like nothing important, many people will think otherwise (i'm looking at you War Thunder). Even without ANY rewards, people would find ways, often game breaking, to grind those statistics only to boast about them in front of other people.

 

Don't want to seem negative or anything like that. Just wanted to bring attention to some of the dangers with tracking statistics that may not be obvious. Whatever the developers decide I hope (and actually am pretty sure of it) that they will put a lot of thought to it and it's implications.

 

+1 (for "nothing"). IMHO, Statistics "for personal view " will soon be published on internet...

Less statistics the better!

Please dont turn this into another WoT, where players would screw the teams battle strategy just to improve the stats a bit.

+1

[Aussie_Fox]

 

Track - Sailing miles (Show world that you are an adventurer)

Track - Total world exploration (show how many % of world is discovered)

Track - Location discoveries (Show guild members you are an explorer)

 

 

 

 

they are probably the ones i would like to see the most out of the non standard stats.

if there is some sort of "fast travel" system in place these stats will show who is actually sailing and putting time on the open water, compared to those who are just trying to grind out missions asap.

[Don Alvarez]

I like Prater's convoy rating system also. I also like to see a convoy loss% for that player as well. I plan to play a merchant and if I'm paying money for escorts, I want to get the most for my money, not just some random scrubs that happened to be in front of the job board when I want to set sail.

[Grim DeGrim]

While always a double edge sword (from game developers point of view) I like to know stats about the state of my nation.

How many active players per nation past X days.

How many player sinks of nation ABC by nation XYZ.

(akin to faction warfare page in Eve)

Folks will disagree with competitive stats, but allow for the collection process of ideas to work its way through. These are global stat collections and 100% anonymous...

Any other national stats?

Edited March 12, 2015 by Grim DeGrim

[Grim DeGrim]

Convoy system is pretty unique.  Good one Prater.

 

Thus far we've primarily discussed "stats" or "status" type of items.  Does this topic include other API trackables?  Examples:

 

• Player (or Guild) Inventory / assets, by name, type, and quantities
• Player (or Guild) Sale and buy orders
• Player (or Guild) crafting projects (presuming that crafting can be a time duration, versus click/consume resource with instant creation...)
• Player (or Guild) Standings with other Players (or Guild) and/or other entities (eg, nations, etc)
• Guild member lists
• Database for all game items (versus just those owned)
• Letter of Marque available for selection
• Buy orders available
• Service requests available (eg, shipping or other contractual options)

Some of these delve a bit more into pure database and API, but other like the first 5 or 6 are more player & guild based / tractable.  To either have these available in an API format, or even for download into 3rd party application could be good.

 

Off topic?

[Grim DeGrim]

I propose a stat that calculates a guild's contributions to their nation.  Call it "Patriotic Rating" or something like that...it is essentially a sub-type of reputation for guilds. 

 

I don't propose to know the exact formula a person would use...I'll speculate on that below.  However, the intent of this stat is to promote active guilds within the community.  To contribute to a sense of building ownership (a very small, but perhaps meaningful, stat to encourage staying with a nation).

 

This stat would calculate a formula on a per guild member basis (that way larger guilds do not inherently get weighted more):

 

• Duration of time pledged to that nation (scales...max score at 1 year)
• NPC Killed (eg, per 1000 NPC killed)
• Emeny Captains Sunk (eg, per 5 captains sunk)
• Goods Crafted (eg, per $$$ value of good)
• Missions Completed (eg, per # mission completed)
• Items Discovered (eg, per item discovered)
• Port Defended
• Ports Attacked
• etc etc etc...whatever major game elements that are in the design

These are weighted...so of a 100%, each are worth a value.  They can all be 100% equal, or some might have more weight than others (example, I would weight duration of time dedicated to a nation more heavily than NPC's killed).  That's for Devs to decide.  The calc is can be made on a frequently (daily), or on some other time basis (eg, calc's once per week).  The score is at the player level and rolls up to the guild and is then averaged out by the total number of players in that group.  This metric is a means of a a guild showing they are active and that they contribute. 

 

Formula Sub-Sets:  These individual items above could also be tracked seperately too:  If a guild excels in one of the buckets, maybe they choose to showcase (make public) that particular stat in their guild profile.  Again, a way for them to say "We're proud we're doing "X" for our nation".

 

It's getting late I'll reread in the morning to see if it still makes sense.  Anyone get what I'm trying to say?  It is quite similar to reputation I suppose.  But also very specific in how it could be calculated.

[Mr. Doran]

Amount of crew killed via raking and boarding 

[JeeF]

+1 no public stats

[admin]

We totally agree with the statements that stat grinding must be avoided and should not be part of the game. 

Having said that we must track certain things to make gameplay better. (+ tracking stats could be useful for some players). But it takes development time and less focus on stats will allow more development time elsewhere.

 

For me the below mentioned stats could be useful to a clan leader or fleet member and will definitely want to make this stats public.

• Win rate as an admiral - useful to determine who will have access to commander tablet in battle
• Quitting battles statistics - self explanatory
• Win rate as individual - very usefull 
• % of ships destroyed or captured above the class of your vessel - very useful
• Friendly fire as a % of total damage
• Escort participation
• Orders fulfilled % or similar

[PIerrick de Badas]

I'm not interest in stat as it make people doing stupid thing to improve them like in wot where you see people suiciding to cap rather than going to kill the last one or camp from hell to get more points .

Stats have really to not impact how people play.

 

Stat have to tell people how the people play and not make people play for them...

[StaleMemes]

History of all the ships you have owned, how long you owned them for, history of previous owners of said ships, how much you earned in those ships.

[PIerrick de Badas]

 

We totally agree with the statements that stat grinding must be avoided and should not be part of the game. 

Having said that we must track certain things to make gameplay better. (+ tracking stats could be useful for some players). But it takes development time and less focus on stats will allow more development time elsewhere.

 

For me the below mentioned stats could be useful to a clan leader or fleet member and will definitely want to make this stats public.

• Win rate as an admiral - useful to determine who will have access to commander tablet in battle
• Quitting battles statistics - self explanatory
• Win rate as individual - very usefull 
• % of ships destroyed or captured above the class of your vessel - very useful
• Friendly fire as a % of total damage
• Escort participation
• Orders fulfilled % or similar

 

• Win rate as an admiral - useful to determine who will have access to commander tablet in battle (troll will suicide or make everything to make an admiral they dislike lost the battles to make their friend admiral lead more battle. I ve already lead a battle where someone make mutinery during the fight. As people didn't wan't him to lead or at least prefer to keep the admiral they get before, the people begin to troll. It stops his santi in middle of the fight making half the ship stoped. He speak on chat making people unable to use it. And finally on the end he said: You see, i tell you we were ging to loose" after he almost make the batle. So giving this stat is going to feed this kind of troll. Be sure you will see people not happy to not et their own guild leader leading the battle sacrifiing ship just to make their leader more valuable
• Quitting battles statistics - self explanatory (ok it's the dc/leaving/afk stat and not the: ifleethebattlestat)
• Win rate as individual - very usefull  (ok if it's not making people kite to "win")
• % of ships destroyed or captured above the class of your vessel - very useful : Ship destroyed=last hit? or % of damage/ship? Bc, the stat with last hit will make people hold fire to get this last kill and troll will be perfect for that in large battles. Don't feed trolls!
• Friendly fire as a % of total damage : ok
• Escort participation : Don't know what it mean but why not
• Orders fulfilled % or similar: What is orders ar stupid? Depend if i can choose my leader or if the leader is IA based on stats. I would suicide if the group choose a leader that make us suicide to follow his plan. I may not be so happy to suicide if the IA give the lead to someone that don't desserve it. If you choose your leader, or at least if majority of captain choose him, people will follow because they have had the choice. If you make IA based leader in battle, not sure people will follow because they may not be ok to follow! For example i ve play some battle when as soon as it starts I know i will not like the battle due of choice of leader. But we choose him or at least noone complain so we follow him in death or in victory. If this leader would have been choose by IA, i would not have give him a shit following his stupids movement! You see my point? I will not follow stupds orders gived by leader choosen by an IA. I will follow this same orders if the fleet chooses his admiral.

[Arvenski]

 

We totally agree with the statements that stat grinding must be avoided and should not be part of the game.1

Having said that we must track certain things to make gameplay better. (+ tracking stats could be useful for some players). But it takes development time and less focus on stats will allow more development time elsewhere.

 

For me the below mentioned stats could be useful to a clan leader or fleet member and will definitely want to make this stats public.

• Win rate as an admiral - useful to determine who will have access to commander tablet in battle
• Quitting battles statistics - self explanatory
• Win rate as individual - very usefull 2
• % of ships destroyed or captured above the class of your vessel - very useful 3
• Friendly fire as a % of total damage
• Escort participation
• Orders fulfilled % or similar

 

What the hell? Points 2 and 3 are actually contradictory to point 1. You say "stat grinding must be avoided," and then you suggest adding winrate (one of the most heavily-ground stats in WoT, for example, and one that players love to use to insult each other) and a kill counter (which encourages kill-stealing and the like, and is also a very grindable stat). Not only that, but you say that these should be made public. I... I just... what?

[Grim DeGrim]

I'm indifferent. My bias is to data. I'm a business analyst by trade. I know that stats alone only give an indication on "something", and in upon themselves mean nothing: it's just data with no synopsis or analysis.

Maybe most folk's don't get that. Without available data, there is no way to draw conclusions on anything, unless by anecdote.

Just my 2 cents. My bias is heavily towards data that supports a player to improve their game play / be able to rank themselves personally against a larger player base (note, I did not suggest this ranking should be public). And the same for leaders of societies : it would be nice to have a tool for the ones that decide to use it, to allow for player screening.

I trust admin - they're at the helm, sailing this ship. Get us to our destination.

[Dagann]

I'm not fond of the win rate since quite ofen, you do your job and play quite well while most of the team play in the lemmings train.

So the battle ends with a defeat and it lower your stats whereas you did your job.

I really prefer the damage dealt, ships sunk or caped vs damages suffered, ships lost ratio.

[Sin Khan]

My recommendation is for 4 stat areas and types.

 

1. Detailed statistics: Only available to the individual player to see unless they want to show everyone, so, this area should be selectively hidden if the player chooses. These stats could be used to help the player improve and include all kinds of stats.

 

(Why personal only. Stats about players are used as much against the player as they are in benefit of the player. As well, all stats can be padded and therefore are only a loose indicator of skill level as regards hit ratio, damage done, etc.)

 

2. Achievements: Some very hard missions and events against PvE should be included in the game that players can take on. For instance, a roving NPC pirate. If said player takes out pirate, either with a group or not, then the player should get an achievement badge. These achievements should be seen by everyone as they are usually put in newspapers and politics in real life. These achievements should be for guilds / clans as well as individual achievements.

 

(Achievements help the inform other players and guilds of who has done what. Who has explored certain areas? Who is active and who is not.)

 

3. Current Known Information: Every ship captain / pirate / trader should have regular information about them tracked and known just like real life. I can easily look up a player to find out, what ship they own and most often use, what play style (job) they do (trade, pirate, military, etc). Anyone should be able to tell of what type of regular working history someone has as it relates to the world and other players on a whole. If so in so is a trader, everyone should have access to know this in some kind of public record.

 

(known info helps clans and individuals to know what was also known in the period, who is operating what in what area. If pirate bob is operating in sea whatever sailing a brig, that general information should be somewhere for someone to find on individual pages.

 

4. Public notifications: There should be a record of major events in areas. If i go to town so in so I should be able to get an update on what events are going on in the world and in the immediate vicinity. If some port camping pirate is camping the port of a city and has attacked 5 ships there people should be able to know this info before setting sail. "Pirate so in so attacks 7 ships at island 1234" should be info that people can see as it helps all players and is info that would have been known in the period. This one thing is what is most important to having this game be like real life. Bounty hunters, military, traders, and even other pirates should have access to what each other are doing if they go to a port and get the newspaper. No clan or player should be able to sink 10 ships in the same spot and not have that info available to everyone in a certain area.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Great ideas Mr. Khan.  I definitely agree that individual stats should be something that a player can choose to either keep private or reveal to one or more parties, or everyone.

[Sin Khan]

Thank you sir.

[Poyraz]

Besides all the stats suggested in this thread, I would say "damage taken" is also very meaningful.

 

"Damage taken per ship loss" or "Damage taken per fight" are very important as they might provide insight on the survivalability and efectiveness of a captain in a fight.

[StuffinBeard]

Nautical miles traveled.
Crew members starved/killed/mutinied
Total wealth obtained and current wealth with it mavbe broken down to how much was spent on repairs/upgrades/ammo/rations/
If multiple ships are possibly owned it could be broken down to how much for each one. Like 2000 spent on sails under the brig tab?
Wreaks found
Treasure obtained
Fish caught
All items traded

 

EDIT: I agree leaderboards are for arcade games as posted below me here. Statistics for my own personal information would be good. I don't care to have anything others can judge me on either good or bad but information about how I'm playing my game isn't bad I don't think.

Leaderboards Is one thing that has bugged me for years now...Why do I give a flying ---- if some body spent 3000 hours at a game and is number one in some stat that is irrelevant. I just don't care. Never understood it! it is just a way for a developers to try to keep people playing instead of actually making content or good gameplay. Such a waste of development time!  

Edited March 16, 2015 by StuffinBeard

[SYN_Bloody-Bandy]

... For me personally? No statistics please. Statistics have a negative impact on a game and gameplay if you ask me.

~Brigand

 

I agree, keeping a 'leader board' of stats will have a negative impact on the overall game play.  It will cause the game to become about the individual and kills, rather than teamwork and trade to advance.  Leader board stats are for arcade games.

 

Leaving stats out of NA (or at most personally viewable for feedback on where to improve), would likely be an unpopular choice to make in the beginning, since so many 'kids' are already locked into that mindset.  Then again, it would/could cause a stir and gain some positive publicity in the gaming press.

 

Perhaps it would be an interesting experiment to leave the stats out of the game for a while because I predict that people will not miss it if it is never there.

 

And/or really think super-laterally and come up with some new way of evaluating player and guild teamwork.  'Major achievements' as mentioned is a good starting point.

Though as mentioned, any game statistic will likely become abused by those so inclined.

Edited March 15, 2015 by SYN_Bloody-Bandy

[Sir Darric Vandhelm]

I hate stats for 'historic' games,as they are emersion breaking.  Could we have personnal journals instead?  I want to see my characters exploits, achievements and failures, these could be made viewable to other players.

 

Entries such as: 16th March 1804, I captured Captain [player name] sailing a [insert type] called [ship name] near [insert location].  The sale brought me 100 Gunieas in prize money.

 

would be prefrable to Ship Captured = 1, gold earnt = 100.

 

Another types of entries could be:

- I discover a [insert type of landmark] and named it [insert name]. 

- My ship, [insert ship name] a [insert ship class], was sunk on [insert date] by Captain [player name] sailing a [insert type] called [ship name] near [insert location].

- I became a founding father of [insert town name] on [insert date].

 

I also think a profit and loss leadger would be a useful function.  Your personal map updating also would be nice.

 

No MMO game I have played has been improved by stats.

[Prater]

If people don't want stats, they can ignore them.  How is it immersive breaking unless you are paying attention to it?

 

This is a game.  It isn't real life.  It isn't a full on sim either.

[SYN_Bloody-Bandy]

When I replied above I only read the few first posts on page 1, and immediately quoted Brigand's post because in so few words he struck a chord about how global stats corrupt meaningful MP game play such as we expect from Naval Action.  Perhaps corrupt is too powerful a word to use, maybe 'sour' is better, though a few will certainly find a way to corrupt...

 

I'm damn surprised to see so many others voicing so similar an opinion on stats.  Keep stats private.  If you want to recruit/be recruited then allow someone to see your stats.  Otherwise keep and publicly report stats that acknowledge team play and overall major accomplishments.

 

Reputation (in some form) would be a good one to establish publically, whether someone is trust worthy to hire and escort your merchant ships, or on the opposite scale they are a raging sociopathic pirate.  Depending on your perspective and what you value, you can choose to work toward one end or the other.

 

I know players who frequent and post on game forums are in the minority (thus biased likely), I'd like to think they are at the core of that community and helping to shape where things are going.  By all indications this is the case, and the devs are really making something special here.  The overwhelming support and reaction to the gameplay videos is great (why me and many from my squad bought in...), and hope the devs are pleased with success thus far.  Very surprising to see them close testing rather than cash-in on so much positive momentum.

Edited March 16, 2015 by SYN_Bloody-Bandy