Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

Profanity usage in game.

Recommended Posts

You rank, toad-spotted, ratsbane!

 

Admin, do you realize that you are specifically recommending that players verbally abuse one another? With, the stipulation that they do so in a certain way. Personal attacks are apparently not to be allowed at all in this game. Yet now, I can debate the matter ad-nausium so long as I attack that member in a humorous or period-attempted (roleplaying) manner.

 

There are only two ways this can go. You can smack down everyone in a politically correct manner, or, you can simply allow any and all verbal actions to take place. Yes, this is actually an option that you have. Lets think about these options.

 

Option one, you already know and are familiar with I assume. So, let's jump immediately into option two (the one that you don't think that you have). 

 

Do you really want to waste time and resources trying to be the politically correct police? Is that efficient from a business perspective? Doesn't that alienate a segment of your customer base? Doesn't that even go against your own company stated goals of providing a game that is reminiscent of another time in history? But more importantly, how does trying to control people actually help them to learn and grow? Right now, many members of the forum do not even understand the difference between a personal attack and the attack against ones actions. Today, the world believes that to condemn someones actions is to condemn the person who committed them. They believe this because they feel that they are above reproach and do not want to be called out for the actions that they do. So, to prevent any discussion of any kind that exposes negative actions any dialogue at all is deemed a personal attack when it is not. 

 

What would happen if you allowed anyone and everyone to say what they wanted? Well, it would be true freedom of speech would it not? As well, does not society itself ostracize those that do not conform to the fold? Does not sociology dictate that everyone will conform to the norm naturally except the few that will never conform no matter what the norm is? So why spend company time and resources trying to inefficiently control a natural sociological process? Is not the natural way most often best for all involved in the long term? Is that not how society maintains itself? Of course, it is actually the only way that society maintains itself because it is the only long term efficient method. Any intervention that your company could or would do to constrain communication would actually cause an imbalance in the social order of the players. An imbalance that must and will be corrected through other means, such as email, clans, and outside forums. By forcing players to go outside the game provided normal means of social corrective actions you now have eliminated your methods of observing the situation. You have now spent company resources to correct a problem that will now be outside of your control to monitor and therefore adequately correct.

 

So, I would advise to simply allow what is natural to work as it will anyway. Allow people to communicate freely, completely freely, as God himself does and trust that this is the only best method of communication that should be allowed in any environment as well as the game. It is not anarchy. You cannot control the ones who cause anarchy anyway. Instead, provide the complete freedom to allow the other players to take whatever action they see necessary themselves to naturally correct the problems that arise. Big brother government is rarely the answer to human problems. Instead, individual personal freedom and liberty is usually the best answer to human problems.

Edited by Sin Khan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry if I missunderstood you but this is what I read from your posting:

 

leave Forum rules aside and let the users flame as hard as they want. You say that naturally the flame will settle?

Dont Forget we are on the Internet. We are not in a social Environment like you experience in everyday life.

You say that the devs waste time with flamers but do you realize that here are Moderators wich actually DO "waste" their free time to Keep the Forums clean and calm?

That way we help the devs keeping a good overview of the Forum. To let them concentrate on their programming.

 

Again: If I missunderstood you tell me.

 

But as it stands you propose surreal ideas wich willl not work in this Environment.

The Forum rules are fairly loose because the admin thinks the community is sensible and knows basic human interaction on a kind Level.

 

a nice little fact:

Until now we had very few cases where users were desperately flaming each other. (in fact Ive never seen a great flamewar in the ENG section)

This means there is no reason why to Change the current policy at all.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry if I missunderstood you but this is what I read from your posting:

 

leave Forum rules aside and let the users flame as hard as they want. You say that naturally the flame will settle?

Dont Forget we are on the Internet. We are not in a social Environment like you experience in everyday life.

You say that the devs waste time with flamers but do you realize that here are Moderators wich actually DO "waste" their free time to Keep the Forums clean and calm?

That way we help the devs keeping a good overview of the Forum. To let them concentrate on their programming.

 

Again: If I missunderstood you tell me.

 

But as it stands you propose surreal ideas wich willl not work in this Environment.

The Forum rules are fairly loose because the admin thinks the community is sensible and knows basic human interaction on a kind Level.

 

a nice little fact:

Until now we had very few cases where users were desperately flaming each other. (in fact Ive never seen a great flamewar in the ENG section)

This means there is no reason why to Change the current policy at all.

 

Do you realize that you are defeating your own argument? First you question that a flame war will end on its own, "You say that naturally the flame will settle?" and yet, you explain that it was "never a problem until now". You are proving my point right because flame wars always corrected themselves, as you say, until now. They still correct themselves now. The only difference is that everyone is talking about it more, which, is the very corrective action that I was explaining. No admin rule has changed anything yet. Instead, it is the other players who are trying to correct the bad apples. Yet, they are trying to correct these bad apples by complaining to mods, instead of what they would do during the period. If you had a bad seed of a captain in your armada you would not complain to the king about it after the fact, you would instead take out that bad captain yourself. You would attack and destroy that player and everyone would ignore them if they could. You would arrest them otherwise. You state that this will not work in the game, but I argue that you have never seen it work in a game because it has never been truly allowed in a game. Instead, game developers try to inefficiently control everyone instead of allowing the players to control each other.

 

Put another way, the bad apples are so bad in almost any online game in direct proportion to the inability of players themselves to take the necessary corrective action that is needed. What is needed in these games is not more admins and behavior rules, but instead, the mechanics necessary for players to correct problems themselves. Everyone needs the ability to attack another player without the fear of reprisal. The player base needs the ability to completely police itself. Many games do this right now by allowing players to vote on kicking another player from a session or game instance. I would wager, that if the developers looked into all the different ways that players themselves can handle the situation of bad apples you will end up having yourself a very fun game with very few bad apples to ruin it for everyone else. However, if they try to control the situation themselves, as they are now with tribunals, they will be an inefficient, miserable, failure.

Edited by Sin Khan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well yes I say there were very few incidents of harsh flaming. And you are right to say that the Forums look like it can handle itself.

Still we mods are hiding offending Posts wich could result in flamewars on a dayly basis. Thats definately needed and the Forum really profits from it.

You now talk about the game btw. But every Forum has a ruleset and mods wich enforce the rules. Ive seen other Forums (potbs for example) where flamewars really were a Problem. And even tho most of them were in the offtopic sections such should not be allowed. (why were? because the webside shut down)

 

The Tribunal is made for sea Trials incidents where testers can Report bad ingame behavior.

Why here on the forums? because there is no finished game product yet and still there needs to be a way to punish bad behavior. Ist quick and easy to handle.

Maybe there will be a tool in the open world tests wich allow Player driven justice. But until the sandbox I dont see it coming.

 

But on the Forums I dont think there is a way to do such.

 

 

Now to comment on your next post:

If you live by the rules you are fine.

If you act associal you are no longer part of the law beneficials.

 

Devs clearly said that when some of those "assholes" broke the rules on exorbitant heights.

The whole discussion was a big disease on the Tribunal.

(some Players farmed damage and insulted a dev. yet they didnt even come to the Tribunal when they were told to do that)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sin Khan,

 

Your premise seems to be that community self-policing is better than a police authority.  I agree with that.   

 

Take it a step further, that individual self-policing would be better still.   

 

Given that none of these are done perfectly, none of these will be sufficient by itself.   A community needs an appropriate mix of all three.   

 

To that end, some suggestions:

1. Comment on what you think would work well (for example, this thread)    For example, an useful discussion might be "what makes a poorly-implemented vote-to-kick option a bigger problem than it is a solution?"

 

2. Participate in the individual code-of-conduct yourself (since you're not part of the problem)

 

Yours respectfully, etc.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I remind you all this is a light hearted take/thread on the profanity issue...... lets keep it as such! ;)

 

I tried to use the profanity generator.  It told me I was a "humorless clay-brained canker-blossom".   :unsure:

 

(LOL, "humorless" really should be added to the first column, though it didn't have our current meaning in the early 1800's)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The insult generator is meant to defuse aggression and anger with humor. If it is insufficient when it comes to the humorless, then that cannot be helped.

 

But in any case, guys, this thread needs to shape up.

 

No one has a leg to stand on when it comes to telling GameLabs how to run its own forum. The rules weren't written by consensus, and they are completely adequate so long as people are willing to be decent to each other. Trying to apply your favorite sociological theories is just cause for a lot of hot air.

 

Be decent to each other. If not, the moderators will step in.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"You jumped up never come down fatherless son of a Chinese seaweed eating sea camel

 

This is something my father used to say at rare times, i have no idea why or if it had any origins beyond his own sailing/boat building joys but i begin to wonder if all those years ago he was preparing me for the days to come when Naval Action insult Generator would be born!!!!

 

Good job and for those of us who remember the birth of the Internet when people from all over the globe started meeting and playing games together, the days before this generation of foul mouth disrespectful horn swaddled sea scum, when said people were pleased to meet each other and there was a certain awe and respect.

This is not the internet, it is what you/we have made it it was never like this at it's birth and those who say it cannot be different have no idea about what it once was. lack of self respect leads to no respect, If people are unwilling to try to improve themselves than there is no hope for them, does not mean the rest of us have to be dragged down to the murky depths with em.

 

Good job Mods and may the hair on ya ass never grow inwards!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue I have with all of this is that the list of time appropriate profanity was just that back in that time period....PROFANITY. You know mouth like a sailor and all that right? Well our modern profanity is just as profane as the old stuff so I don't understand the difference truth be told. This is more like asking me to roleplay in which I truly have no desire to do so. Definitely put a profanity filter in chat for the Quakers out there I guess.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe Game Labs is trying to avoid the completely foul atmosphere that you see in most online games.  Having someone releasing a stream of modern filthy language is offputting for a lot of people, especially the slightly older crowd that this game is targeting.  I don't think it's too much to ask to either refrain from being abusive, or using the list of insults provided, which are creative, novel, and a little funny.  We've lost a large part of the eloquence of our language, going from extremely creative phrases such as listed here (which still would have required one of the following:  An apology, a sword through your ribs in a duel, or your being branded a coward for doing neither) to f*** you.  It's sad really that we think that such simple, uncreative words are now the pinnacle of an insult.

 

In the end, you're not being asked to roleplay, you're simply being asked to be respectful towards the other people playing this game.  I don't think a little respect is too much to ask.

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, they could add a "profanity filter".  But that is not the point the Dev's are trying to make.

 

Seems to me like Game-Labs is simply asking for their player base to be better/more mature then the rest of the grade. And what better time to do so while the game is still in its testing/development phases. The only reason most MMO's of any type have a profanity filter is because their player base was never made aware that such language is not and will not be tolerated from the beginning. Then some time down the road they're forced to add in such filters.

 

Profanity and excessive harsh words have consequences in real life. So why shouldn't such language here be any different, just because its a game? Or because such language can be filtered out? Adults and children alike know all to well what those **** are used for. I don't think Game-Labs is asking for all that much from their current testing player base. And with them letting the current testing player base know now. It really shouldn't be hard for a "Mature" person to think, before they speak (type).

 

All of us here during this glorious testing phase are the Pioneer's for this game. So lets try and be mature and  Lead-By-Example while we help Game-Labs develop their game. Let us all here show that having a mature player base is possible and can be achieved. 

 

So I applaude Game-Labs for trying to set a  Lead-By-Example standard of gaming.

 

 

~Cheers Gents

Edited by Aksark
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About time a game company took a step in the right direction like this, the toxic foul mouth brigade have lowered the level of social interaction for far to long. Maybe they will start to learn a little respect comes back if given and perhaps even learn how to use and spell 5 letter words too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand what you guys are saying but when you equate foul language to toxic behavior or wanting to promote a more mature player base I'm smacked by more than a bit of Irony. Why you ask? Because we have people all over the place who actively look to gank people left and right, people who club new players, people who use every "trick" or "exploit" they can find in game but we're focused on their language? I would much rather you call me a mean name than gank me in a 4 vs 1 with your speed modded heavy frigates which allow me zero chance of escape and zero chance of fighting back.  Foul language has been around since human language has been around and THAT is a FACT. I appreciate what you guys would like to experience in game but it just seems way to idealistic if you ask me. I'd implement a profanity filter like every single MMO I have ever played has and I would disable cross nation chat. However, I understand that at this stage of testing the community is small and doing these things probably don't need to be implemented till a later date.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blackjack, it is quite simple. The language directly targets you as a person and your dignity. The ganking targets your ship and you only suffer indirectly depending on what you make of such a loss.

 

The current ways to block communications individually by each player's choice are great and they are working. Why consider a flat ban on cross nation talk? We are one big community and just because someone sails under a different flag doesnt mean he is my enemy or that I cannot be on good terms with the player. We don't strive t the level of any of those other MMOs and their defeatist approach to player interaction. A community can be respectful and friendly. Individuals who cannot be, are dealt with individually.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'apostat....mostly because I live in the real world no offense! If you can name a single PvP or RvR centric MMO that doesn't have profanity being used to one extent or another I'd love to hear about it. I don't run around cursing up a storm in game nor do I plan on it but my goodness people it's simply the reality of the world we live in. My suggestion would be to turn that profanity filter on as soon as they introduce one because as more and more people start to play you are going to start hearing more and more of it. Oh, and if you don't think there will be a ton of anger inducing taunting going on between players in a pvp game you are going to be in for a shock as well....heck that already is going on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If someone starts calling me names I think to myself 'what an immature idiot' and ignore it.

Toxic? Bah! Just a storm in a teacup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Admin :

 

I have currently a dynamic signature with the picture randomly changing on each page refresh.

 

For the giggles i was working few months ago on a version using the taunts posted on the first page, combining the words randomly + adding some other Shakespearian known quotes or few celeb Naval quotes randomly too, was still a WIP when i stopped to work on this and still need to adjust few things in regards to the font used and text size but it's more or less like this : 

 

NavalSig.jpg

 

All should change on a image or page refresh, the picture on the background, the first line of taunts and the second line of quotes, all should be mixed randomly on each refresh.

 

I'd like to know how acceptable it will be to use this as signature on the forums ? Don't want to be banned for such funny thing so better ask first  :P

 

Thanks.

Edited by Kanay
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Admin :

 

I have currently a dynamic signature with the picture randomly changing on each page refresh.

 

For the giggles i was working few months ago on a version using the taunts posted on the first page, combining the words randomly + adding some other Shakespearian known quotes or few celeb Naval quotes randomly too, was still a WIP when i stopped to work on this and still need to adjust few things in regards to the font used and text size but it's more or less like this : 

 

NavalSig.jpg

 

All should change on a image or page refresh, the picture on the background, the first line of taunts and the second line of quotes, all should be mixed randomly on each refresh.

 

I'd like to know how acceptable it will be to use this as signature on the forums ? Don't want to be banned for such funny thing so better ask first  :P

 

Thanks.

 

 

Me personally I have no issue with it... it's insults are humourous and shows great creativity. ;)

 

I've never liked however the use of Thou, Thine and Art, too biblical in my mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is,and always has been only one way to answer profanity,with a cannonball.

And what you do with friendlies who call you names? Theres a punishment for teamkilling.

 

theres always been only one correct way:

Keep calm and carry on. And file that report ticket!

 

If you feel verbally abused. Hell report that dude. If hes beeing reported over and over again he gets a brief but destinct warning. (or maybe even more)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×