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Mr. Doran

A treatise on Naval Action: a complete guide - Mr. Doran

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At one point you talk about full stop, not sure where, and the other you talk about mashing s, which I assumed to be the same but I could have been mistaken on what you mean.  Two tiny points I disagree with, but the only two.

 

P.s.  I dread to see an entire organization taught by you with these mechanics.  But I welcome the challenge (depending on whether you are pirates or privateers and what nation you decide to be) :D

We're starting small, likely to remain that way.  Especially since everyone who would like to be a member must duel Doran and/or his graduates.  Let me tell you, from personal experience, it bears a striking resemblance to this:

 

 

:blink:

 

In all likelihood we'd be privateers for hire for the nation(s) with the lowest population numbers.  We prefer target rich environments  :D

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Hats off to you sir.

 

I have read it once.

 

I will now try and pick each piece, digest and learn...and practice.

 

I love forums and passionate players.....gaming..the gift that keeps on giving.

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Lord knows I dislike you for your antics in that very early alpha game when I didn't adhere to what you thought was "manly behavior" (I.E. Keeping my range in a constitution vs two trincomalees). But this guide is pure gold, and you surely have gained my respect by sharing this with the community.

Very well done.

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I'm confused, though. According to the Leaderboard, Doran has won under half of those 750 matches.

 

Everyone was thinking it...

 

 

Who cares about leaderboards. I see people there with higher than 0.80 winrates, and I've never ever seen them in PVP. Lots of people have very high win ratios because of all the battles they fought in PVE. You see them in PVP, they're hopeless. I know who's a demon behind his ship's wheel and who's useless, and that has nothing to do with leaderboard stats ;).

summing up: leave statwhoring for CoD crowd ;).

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Guest raat

This guide is excellent.  I'll have to duel more to work on the included tactics.  However, what's the tactic when you're pursuing to close the distance, and the pursuee is just trying to mast or chain you the whole time,  once you get there, your sails could be so wrecked you will be unable to remain on his stern even with the wind, and then be unable to keep that initiative?

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The maneuvering illustrations are sound, very sound. I've been caught out a few times by treating NA frigates like PotBS frigates, they are heavier and and don't recover so easily from a mistake, have to treat them more like PotBS lineships where one mistake can cost you the battle. Plus some things like crew loss and rudder damage that were recoverable in PotBS aren't here, changes the way you need to treat them.

 

Hoping most of the meta-gaming BS will go away when we move to a better damage model though. For example, getting raked through the bow is second only in pain to getting raked through the stern and also an excellent way to get yourself dismasted, properly to minimize damage you would take the enemies broadside (if you have to take it) on your own broadside, and approaches would be made diagonally so that the enemy can't fire through your bow and down the length on your gundeck.

 

Also, you should never need to go into F1 for anything. Simply making spacebar fire guns from bow to stern (all decks) would allow proper rolling broadsides and fire as you bear without screwing around with disabling gundecks in the console

 

Could do with taking the extra bowchasers off ships that didn't have them too. Trincomalee for example didn't (and couldn't) mount guns in both the leading broadside gunports and the chase gunports. So you'd have to choose between 14+11 on the broadside and 0 chasers, or 13+10 and 4 chasers, or some combination thereof, because having an extra 4 guns up in the bow would make the ship bow heavy and slow, plus require an extra 40men for guncrew. Not to mention the guns would physically collide if you fired both at the same time or fired one while the other was being reloaded.

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This guide is excellent.  I'll have to duel more to work on the included tactics.  However, what's the tactic when you're pursuing to close the distance, and the pursuee is just trying to mast or chain you the whole time,  once you get there, your sails could be so wrecked you will be unable to remain on his stern even with the wind, and then be unable to keep that initiative?

Chain/mast them back. 

 

If they are good they will cripple you before you ever get close, so the only option is to trade damage and try to outshoot them.

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Also, you should never need to go into F1 for anything. Simply making spacebar fire guns from bow to stern (all decks) would allow proper rolling broadsides and fire as you bear without screwing around with disabling gundecks in the console

 

Couldn't agree more, it's very awkward. The forced delay between shots could be reduced too.

 

As for pursuing to close the distance, as Mr Doran wrote in the very last paragraph, kiting has to be nerfed somehow. Turning to shoot back can't be a solution because you will never catch up and they have a range advantage.

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Thank you Mr. Doran. Great work. The breaking down the meta into four basic position was very scientific I feel.

 

With regards to open world especially, I disagree with the last paragraph. In battle arena it could be a good start for battle but should not go indefinitly. In open world I view it as a completely valid tactic. If you are forced to duel in a leeward position, you should try to damage your pursuer at a distance and run to try to gain better position at some other time.

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This guide is excellent.  I'll have to duel more to work on the included tactics.  However, what's the tactic when you're pursuing to close the distance, and the pursuee is just trying to mast or chain you the whole time,  once you get there, your sails could be so wrecked you will be unable to remain on his stern even with the wind, and then be unable to keep that initiative?

 

    That is high lee kyting. I decided I would not talk about that much but it is mentioned in the "What Could Change The Meta". It is essentially unbeatable if they start on the high lee gauge (Very downwind) and you start on the high wind gauge (very upwind) in a duel if they use chain and are at least 80% accurate with it. As soon as two volleys land and bring you down to 70% you're good as a dead man unless you play perfectly. The only way to beat a kyter and mantain the intitiative is to catch them.  

    I've been in the scenario many times before and if they aren't accurate with their shot you will catch them and be able to do whatever you want with them. If they are accurate and can keep pulling distance once you get in range you have to wack off their sails to even the Pre Post/Post DPS defeciet in repairs and then use the gauge advantage to murder them. This kind of behavior might be nerfed with gun dispersion increased but untill then if you wany to be a complete scumbag you can pretty much high lee kyte indefinitely if you are accurate enough even with the chain nerf. As for doing it in group fights I talk about that in the according section. Its most potent in duels and small/medium scale fights.

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Thank you Mr. Doran. Great work. The breaking down the meta into four basic position was very scientific I feel.

 

With regards to open world especially, I disagree with the last paragraph. In battle arena it could be a good start for battle but should not go indefinitly. In open world I view it as a completely valid tactic. If you are forced to duel in a leeward position, you should try to damage your pursuer at a distance and run to try to gain better position at some other time.

 

If you are forced lee gauge you can kyte and then try to fight for wind during or leave the fight but the primary reason that kyting as a standalone tactic was not discussed was the primary fact that if gun dispersion are increased it will become a lot less potent. Either way if you want to a fight in a 1:1 strength ratio or lower strength ratio environment you must retake the gauge if you are forced lee. More fight and more fights will become predetermined on the OS as split wind will likely not be a much of a luxury as it is now and people will be forced high lee and high gauge. 

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The Frigate duel "meta" guide is excellent. That's all I really have to say.

 

 

The forced delay between shots could be reduced too.

 

 

 

Or make the delay by section, to account for the delay in orders from individual midshipmen and lieutenants, not sailors just firing in a disorganized sequence, for no real reason. Unless that's working as designed, and waiting for the implementation of crew experience.

 

Really, firing patterns could use a lot of work, I think. You should be able to pick which end you start ranging from, for example. A captain had full control over his guns.

 

 

As for pursuing to close the distance, as Mr Doran wrote in the very last paragraph, kiting has to be nerfed somehow. Turning to shoot back can't be a solution because you will never catch up and they have a range advantage.

 

 

And in my limited experience (~100 matches, so nothing to brag about), trouble with chain comes in the form of storm maps, and a stubborn refusal to give up double shot, so as frustrating as it can be, it's hard to see it as anything but being outplayed by the other team, with them using a plausible tactic. If there's any failing, it's in the damage model of sails, rigging, and masts, and our ability to repair them. Losing a mast should be catastrophic, probably more so than it is now. Damage to rigging is a matter of ropes and time (which can still be catastrophic!), which any ship would have more than three of.

 

Fouling the rigging of a windward pursuer should only buy you time, not cripple his armor repair potential. Fouling the rigging of a ship downwind should give you a chance to decide the battle, unless you're hopelessly outclassed.

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Brilliant work that made my naval-tactics side geek out for half an hour.

 

I really like your explanation of raking one's stern- I had no idea such precise fire could do that much damage. I'm definitely using that. Also, you can fire separate gun decks apparently which I didn't know- should come in handy aboard my Snow.

 

Danke!

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Excellent work!

 

I have to admit its really opened my eyes to the possibilities that open up when maintaining the weather-gauge in a fight. Going to have to work on my strategic tacking now!

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I have not yet had the op to read, but have downloaded.  I have a question, that I am sure you've tested:

 

  • 2 ships.  For sake of discussion, same ship, equal captains, both close to fight (I'll let you decided if in range for double shot).  Assumes equal wind.
  • If one captain goes hull, and the other captain goes sail (w/chain), whose reps hold out?  Is demast > sink?

 

GRIM

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10% sail damage from chain and the roundshot player can be kited forever and whittled down. But chain will almost never dismast. Trying to dismast with roundshot in a duel is suicide.

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I have not yet had the op to read, but have downloaded.  I have a question, that I am sure you've tested:

 

  • 2 ships.  For sake of discussion, same ship, equal captains, both close to fight (I'll let you decided if in range for double shot).  Assumes equal wind.
  • If one captain goes hull, and the other captain goes sail (w/chain), whose reps hold out?  Is demast > sink?

 

GRIM

 

If its yard arm to yard arm the lolmaster will always loose. With the current gun dispersion or lack thereof if you start with the high lee gauge you can pretty much kyte forever without being stopped with ball or chain (even with the nerf) as long as you can hit the target consistently; even if done properly its not completely unbeatable by any stretch of the imagination but you have to tackle it very well or the repair deficit will kill you. It essentially becomes a game of cutting off as much of his sails once you get in range so he is forced to burn a rep too on sails and then it just goes down to whats written about yard arm to yard arm fighting. 

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Which is pretty bogus. Was I going to repair my hull with that sailcloth?

 

Separate repair pools and cooldowns for everyone please.

 

No one in the history of the universe has never repaired a rudder or pump, so it's a fake feature anyhow.

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