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'Vrijheid' Dutch 3-Rate 1782 (With Plans)

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Unfortunately for us Dutch, the main period on which Naval Action seems to focus comes after our 'Golden Age', but there's still plenty of Dutch stuff in the 18th century. 

 

We all know and love the 74 as the ultimate linesoldier of 18th century fleet battles and as such these ships should be well represented in game, several types should be available for all the major factions. The Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam has this large, very detailed model of the 74gun ship "Vrijheid". This ship will fit in the game's timeperiod beautifully and could be an important staple of Dutch fleets. We didn't build any first rates because of the shallow waters around our coasts, generally sticking to third rates and the occasional 2nd as a flagship, but we certainly knew how to slap together a good boat. 

The Vrijheid did not have a particularly magnificent career. Built in 1782, she fought at Kamperduin in '97 and was captured by the English. She served as a prison hulk for a few years before she was scrapped. But still, it's a solid 15 years of active service and one major battle. That's more than you can say about a great many of other warships.

 

 

In any case, I think it'd be a wonderful addition to the game. Not just for some Dutch lovin', but 74s are awesome and you can never have enough of them.

 

 

linieschip-Vrijheid-74-stukken.jpg

 

 

 

Linieschip-Vrijheid-1782.jpg

 

 

vervoer.jpg

 

 

 

 

It's a large, multi-part model. While I don't know if there are any plans of the ship online or even in existence, I can't imagine the friendly people at the Rijksmuseum would be unwilling to cooperate with helping the devs to build a virtual specimen of her. 

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I do like these Dutch SoL, very distinctive and attractive.

 

Best I can do for plans are these, although unfortunately they are not the Vrijheid but another Dutch 74, Washington and also in pretty bad condition.

 

6UcEXkY.jpg

 

Royal Museums Greenwich has the plans for Vrijheid but they don't seem to be viewable online.

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I believe she was in the battle of Kamperduin. We can fill spots in the ship classes easily with Dutch ships, as they had generally smaller and shallower draft vessels than the British in this period. Several 50 and 64 gun ships at the battle of Kamperduin that could be useful as well.

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Well i know that there are a couple of models at the rijksmuseum i worked there during the restoration of the building it is defently worth a look. There are paintings and the back piece of the britisch channel ship as well. Ive been trying to find plans of the dutch ships but they are hard to find this is because the east india company moved from amsterdam to Brittannië after the golden age it got named west inia company

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Wicked Mouse, have you tried looking through a British database?  The Vrijheid was captured, so there is a possibility that her lines could have been copied by the British, that is how we have the lines for the Lynx.

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Does anyone have information about her armament?

She looks damm sexy and if she can hold 32/24/12 pounders she will be a great addition to the lineup. We can have a heavy and a light 74.

However. Checking how much crew she sailed with I doubt that she sailed with 24 pounders on her mid decks. Her compliment was 550 men.

 

-> source

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18-pounders on the upper deck in british service. And they didn´t seem to be too enthusiastic about this vessel, it became a prison ship almost immediately after capture and then a floating powder magazine.

 

By the way, which 74s had 24-pounders on the upper deck? Even the huge Téméraire-class ships had a 36/18/8 setup (french pounds, ~ 40/20/9 in british pounds, 32/18/12 in actual british service).

Edited by Malachi

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I do like these Dutch SoL, very distinctive and attractive.

 

Best I can do for plans are these, although unfortunately they are not the Vrijheid but another Dutch 74, Washington and also in pretty bad condition.

 

6UcEXkY.jpg

 

Royal Museums Greenwich has the plans for Vrijheid but they don't seem to be viewable online.

 

Dutch plan of the Washington:

BPcIQra.png

 

We5IGtD.png

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Hi Can you please help me im  looking for a ship its got the same name (Vrijheid)  but  was build in 1666 and sailed until 1691, it sailed to the Cape of Good Hope on 1686 and had a crew of 240-300 men the flag was Chamber of Zeeland please any pics plans or info on this ship and where i can buy a model thank you      

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On 10/11/2015 at 6:11 AM, Malachi said:

18-pounders on the upper deck in british service. And they didn´t seem to be too enthusiastic about this vessel, it became a prison ship almost immediately after capture and then a floating powder magazine.

 

By the way, which 74s had 24-pounders on the upper deck? Even the huge Téméraire-class ships had a 36/18/8 setup (french pounds, ~ 40/20/9 in british pounds, 32/18/12 in actual british service).

As far as British ships, there's not a lot. There's the Triumph class of the 1750s, though the two survivors, Triumph and Valiant, had been rearmed with 18pdrs by the 1790s.

 

New construction between the 1790s and 1812 are, in roughly chronological order: Mars, Centaur, Revenge, Bulwark, Ajax, Kent, Milford, Colossus, Warspite, and Chatham. Several "Middling class" 74s also got uprated from 18pdrs to 24pdrs before 1817, including Achille (French spelling is correct) and Superb. Probably a few more I'm missing, those are the ones I found for sure though.

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22 hours ago, Chaelsmit said:

Hi Can you please help me im  looking for a ship its got the same name (Vrijheid)  but  was build in 1666 and sailed until 1691, it sailed to the Cape of Good Hope on 1686 and had a crew of 240-300 men the flag was Chamber of Zeeland please any pics plans or info on this ship and where i can buy a model thank you      

The 1666 Vrijheid was build in 1666 bij Salomon Janszoon van den Tempel at the dockyard in Rotterdam. Unlike you mention, she would sail under the flag of the Admiralty of the Maze. With the following dimensions; 165 x 43 x 16,5 Amsterdam Foot, 46.7 x 12.17 x 4.45 in Meters, she was one of the largest ships in the Dutch fleet at the time.

Carrying a staggering 70 guns:

18 x 24-pounder = 432

26 x 18-pounder = 468

12 x 12-pounder = 144

14 x 6-pounder = 84

10 x 4-pounder = 40

Grand total: 1168 * 1,089 (conversion dutch pound to british pound) = 1271,952

This would make her one of the strongest ships in broadside weight of the entire Navy, only rivaled by legends such as the Zeven Provincien (1490) and equal to the renowned Eendracht (1172), Hollandia (1137), Westfriesland (1111) and the Walcheren (1054).

A Van der Velde drawing of the Vrijheid:

fX0q7Pw.jpg

A side note would be that there are 38 gun ports cut, which would indicate that she wasn't equipped to the max of her capacity. This is typical for Dutch ships during the 2nd Anglo-Dutch war, since there was a shortage of heavy armament. In the years after the 2nd Anglo-Dutch war, several of the largest ships received a brand new set of guns for their main gundeck, the 36-pounder. The Zeven Provincien again is a perfect example of the new raw firepower. I can't confirm whether the Vrijheid did receive the new 36's, but it's considered likely.

She is recorded to have 266 man onboard, but i deem this number too low. To give some data of other ships in battle load-out during the Four Days Battle (all ships are of the Admiralty of the Maze):

Eendracht - 76 guns - 380 men

Zeven Provincien - 80 guns - 450 men

Gelderland - 64 guns - 355 men

Ridderschap - 66 guns - 345 men

By no means does this disprove the 266 figure, it just strikes me as too bare for a ship of her size to operate.

 

By my knowledge no plans are in existance of this ship. However, the ship was build by Jan Salomonszoon van den Tempel (Salomon Janszoon van den Tempel's dad) within 2 years of eachother and at the same shipyard. Besides nearly the exact same size this does not give any certainty, yet it's likely that her lines are very similar to those of the Zeven Provincien (who's reconstruction plans are available).

ZJtOu1J.png

Wbfup3d.png

 

 

Her career is rather limited, due to her being finished in 1666-1667 she was too late to play a major role in the 2nd Anglo-Dutch war.

The major battles of Lowestoft, Four Day's Battle, St. James day and the Raid on the Medway had already concluded. (Side note for the Medway raid: It's very hard to retrace which Dutch ships were part of the Raid, however a lack of reference to the ship during the raid indicates no major role and likely an absence.)

 

During the Franco-Dutch war/3rd Anglo-Dutch war she would see action, albeit that she didn't partake in the Battle of Solebay. A reason for this could be the persistent lack of sailors, something that plagued most major naval powers. To give an indication of the odds i pulled some wiki data, so take it with a pinch of salt (although they Dutch were heavily, heavily outgunned) <- i do have the dutch fleet lists, but i can't be arsed to do an actual recount.

75 Dutch ships, 20738 men, 4484 cannons

Vs.

93 Anglo-French ships, 34496 men, 6018 cannons

The battle ended in a stalemate, which the Dutch successfully defending their coastline.

 

At the First battle of Schooneveld the Vrijheid did partake. As the flagship of Vice Admiral Jan de Liefde, she was part of the Centre division. Again at heavy odds (against wiki data, huge salt pinch). <- i do have the dutch fleet lists, but i can't be arsed to do an actual recount.

64 Dutch ships, 14762 men, 3157 cannons

Vs.

86 Anglo-French ships, 24925 men, 4826 cannons

The battle ended with Dutch domination on the field.

Van_de_Velde,_Battle_of_Schooneveld.jpg

 

Later she would serve Jan de Liefde for a second and last time at the battle of Texel/Slag bij kijkduin. Whilst the ship endured the heavy fighting, the renowned admiral did not. This, atleast to my knowledge, is the last battle she would partake in. She wasn't part of the Dutch Mediterranean fleet who operated there during the 1676's nor the 1689's and 1690's. Somewhere around 1690 she would vanish from the records, i can't tell you what ended her.

One answer could be excessive damage taken at Texel, which resulted in her being a guard ship or floating battery. This would explain why a ship of her size wasn't deployed, albeit no indications are that she was actually used as such.

 

I hope that answers your question to an extent.

 

If you like reading more, here is a link to an elaborate writing about the Four Days Battle:

 

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On 1/1/2017 at 2:57 PM, SteelSandwich said:

The 1666 Vrijheid was build in 1666 bij Salomon Janszoon van den Tempel at the dockyard in Rotterdam. Unlike you mention, she would sail under the flag of the Admiralty of the Maze. With the following dimensions; 165 x 43 x 16,5 Amsterdam Foot, 46.7 x 12.17 x 4.45 in Meters, she was one of the largest ships in the Dutch fleet at the time.

Carrying a staggering 70 guns:

18 x 24-pounder = 432

26 x 18-pounder = 468

12 x 12-pounder = 144

14 x 6-pounder = 84

10 x 4-pounder = 40

Grand total: 1168 * 1,089 (conversion dutch pound to british pound) = 1271,952

This would make her one of the strongest ships in broadside weight of the entire Navy, only rivaled by legends such as the Zeven Provincien (1490) and equal to the renowned Eendracht (1172), Hollandia (1137), Westfriesland (1111) and the Walcheren (1054).

A Van der Velde drawing of the Vrijheid:

fX0q7Pw.jpg

A side note would be that there are 38 gun ports cut, which would indicate that she wasn't equipped to the max of her capacity. This is typical for Dutch ships during the 2nd Anglo-Dutch war, since there was a shortage of heavy armament. In the years after the 2nd Anglo-Dutch war, several of the largest ships received a brand new set of guns for their main gundeck, the 36-pounder. The Zeven Provincien again is a perfect example of the new raw firepower. I can't confirm whether the Vrijheid did receive the new 36's, but it's considered likely.

She is recorded to have 266 man onboard, but i deem this number too low. To give some data of other ships in battle load-out during the Four Days Battle (all ships are of the Admiralty of the Maze):

Eendracht - 76 guns - 380 men

Zeven Provincien - 80 guns - 450 men

Gelderland - 64 guns - 355 men

Ridderschap - 66 guns - 345 men

By no means does this disprove the 266 figure, it just strikes me as too bare for a ship of her size to operate.

 

By my knowledge no plans are in existance of this ship. However, the ship was build by Jan Salomonszoon van den Tempel (Salomon Janszoon van den Tempel's dad) within 2 years of eachother and at the same shipyard. Besides nearly the exact same size this does not give any certainty, yet it's likely that her lines are very similar to those of the Zeven Provincien (who's reconstruction plans are available).

ZJtOu1J.png

Wbfup3d.png

 

 

Her career is rather limited, due to her being finished in 1666-1667 she was too late to play a major role in the 2nd Anglo-Dutch war.

The major battles of Lowestoft, Four Day's Battle, St. James day and the Raid on the Medway had already concluded. (Side note for the Medway raid: It's very hard to retrace which Dutch ships were part of the Raid, however a lack of reference to the ship during the raid indicates no major role and likely an absence.)

 

During the Franco-Dutch war/3rd Anglo-Dutch war she would see action, albeit that she didn't partake in the Battle of Solebay. A reason for this could be the persistent lack of sailors, something that plagued most major naval powers. To give an indication of the odds i pulled some wiki data, so take it with a pinch of salt (although they Dutch were heavily, heavily outgunned) <- i do have the dutch fleet lists, but i can't be arsed to do an actual recount.

75 Dutch ships, 20738 men, 4484 cannons

Vs.

93 Anglo-French ships, 34496 men, 6018 cannons

The battle ended in a stalemate, which the Dutch successfully defending their coastline.

 

At the First battle of Schooneveld the Vrijheid did partake. As the flagship of Vice Admiral Jan de Liefde, she was part of the Centre division. Again at heavy odds (against wiki data, huge salt pinch). <- i do have the dutch fleet lists, but i can't be arsed to do an actual recount.

64 Dutch ships, 14762 men, 3157 cannons

Vs.

86 Anglo-French ships, 24925 men, 4826 cannons

The battle ended with Dutch domination on the field.

Van_de_Velde,_Battle_of_Schooneveld.jpg

 

Later she would serve Jan de Liefde for a second and last time at the battle of Texel/Slag bij kijkduin. Whilst the ship endured the heavy fighting, the renowned admiral did not. This, atleast to my knowledge, is the last battle she would partake in. She wasn't part of the Dutch Mediterranean fleet who operated there during the 1676's nor the 1689's and 1690's. Somewhere around 1690 she would vanish from the records, i can't tell you what ended her.

One answer could be excessive damage taken at Texel, which resulted in her being a guard ship or floating battery. This would explain why a ship of her size wasn't deployed, albeit no indications are that she was actually used as such.

 

I hope that answers your question to an extent.

 

If you like reading more, here is a link to an elaborate writing about the Four Days Battle:

 

Seems a recurring theme...The Dutch fighting outnumbered and outgunned battles at sea, yet winning....

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sometimes i end up thinking whole perception of British invincibility is just a propaganda..  even on land, last time i saw a table with 18-19.century land battles fought by British and French, where both sides had 50:50 wins and losses... Yet French are usually mocked for always losing.. (i guess this comes mostly because of WW2, yet even here majority of people forgets that French fought to the bitter end to save  fleeing British expeditionary corps evacuating through Dunkirk..)   sorry for offtopic

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1 hour ago, JaM said:

sometimes i end up thinking whole perception of British invincibility is just a propaganda..  even on land, last time i saw a table with 18-19.century land battles fought by British and French, where both sides had 50:50 wins and losses... Yet French are usually mocked for always losing.. (i guess this comes mostly because of WW2, yet even here majority of people forgets that French fought to the bitter end to save  fleeing British expeditionary corps evacuating through Dunkirk..)   sorry for offtopic

I dont know if this is the right place to react to your statement. But i do agree with you. It all comes down to them being the worlds super power from ~1800 to ~1945. You see the same thing happening with the United states Army and Navy, they are seen as military gods and the Russians are still regarded as mostly outdated in equipment, skill and docterine. The equivelant of the British vs French in the napoleonic era. Statements made back then, influenced by nationalism and the war effort, are still influencing us today. That is why it is very important to set aside nationalism when judging history and do some decent research on both side of the argument. And that is coming from a Dutchman :P.

btw i am not saying that the british or american army and navy were/are bad.

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Every nation had its golden era of technology, some came before, some came after.  Though to an extent, history is written by the victors.

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