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Naval insurance comes to the Caribbean


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5 minutes ago, SirAlatriste said:

I think this is not historical, but this is a small thing with pros.

well sometimes shipping company's deliberate sink ships especially when it was an old ship (oneedin line series) (just saying) 

just to collect the insurance money

Edited by Thonys
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7 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I doubt very much that many players are going to forgo the PvP marks just to generate salt by denying a player insurance payout on the basic ship. To do this they would need to have a fleet perk and take the risk of getting the captured ship back to port, seems like a lot of effort just to generate some salt.

Don't forget pvp marks are about to leave the game and will converted to an other currency.

Don't forget the new mission that may say: "go out capture ship xy and bring it back to Admiralty"

If new currency is physical and you have to sail it back as well why not take the ship When you lose a crafted ship it's insured and you get the insurance regardless if you get counterganked or not.

You can even do green on green so you get insurance while enemies would try to capture for the reward.

Edited by z4ys
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2 minutes ago, Borch said:

Put this way, it makes sense thing is, you make mistake thinking that casuals loose their time "grinding". Its the main feature of casual player gameplay.

There are multiple player personalities and the group you think you are describing will gain nothing from insurance. Also we have stated quite a while ago that players who do not chose pve server in a full loot pvp game cannot be called casual players. The fact of logging in to a full loot pvp server even to pve makes them hardcore players. No wiggling is possible around this fact. 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Automatic crafted ship insurance is not only about the money but about the reducing the loss and changing the reward system, which is one of the goals for the insurance.

Here is the practical example.

Assume there are only 2 players.
Player 1 loses in 10 from 11 battles. Player 2 wins in 10 from 11 battles
Cost to build the ship is 300k and reward is 300k (150k*2 pvp bonus) + pvp marks and combat marks. 
Rewards were always increased during early access because they were supposed to increase incentives to go out and fight, but this was a mistake. 

Here is what happens now..

  • Player 2 sinks 10 ships, earns 3,000 (3mln) + marks. This 3 mln increase price pressure in the market and is increasing the recovery cost for the Player 1.  
  • Player 1 loses 10 ships, recovery cost is 3,000k (3 mln). He loses more and more every time and can only recover by PVE. Grind also brings money into the game, generating even higher prices. Grind is forced onto the average player until he can acquire skill + inflation goes up and up. Grinding is not giving the player 1 required skills = wastes his time.

So the obvious benefits are

  1. Insurance allows to restructure rewards to the appropriate historical levels which removes the inflationary pressures, and reduces recovery loss, loss is less painful because you are not forced to regrind. 
  2. Gear fear is lowered and cost of loss is minimal (especially if Player 1 crafts the ships). Grind is not forced on those who dont want to pve but cannot yet win consistently.
  3. Crafted ships start to matter more.



 

Although I agree with the insurance system I would just like to point out that the average player will loose no matter what. The Game is not skill based. 5/5 ships aggravates an already existing advantage to the skilled player which the average player will be unable to compensate for. Especially since the 5/5 ships tends to gravitate to the most active PvP'ers and they' unlike the average player, can afford both the ship and the best modules.. There's no skill in a decent PvP'er in a 5/5 ship coming up against a noob in a 3/5 ship.. This certainty of the outcome, more than anything prevents the average player from enjoying PvP..

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There's no mechanic in the world in any game that can "fight" a player knowing how to play the game. ( do not read "gaming the game" )

It could be all Grey 0/5 ships for all. It would make no difference. The player that learned to "master" the ship, wind, gunnery, etc will ALWAYS have a upper hand against a guy that just arrived.

Will be true in checkers and in NA.

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At worst is makes it so the loser doesn't lose everything. At best you never have to get insurance because you didn't sink.

This will certainly help new players as well as players who struggle to get gold or those who don't have a lot of time. 

If i am losing a ship worth 500k in resources but getting 400k in insurance, i am only losing 100k investment and that means i don't have to grind much at all to get that back. This is a good change.

 

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4 hours ago, admin said:

Good news everyone.
In one of the next patches crafted ships will be come with navy insurance. 

Insurance at base price (ship material cost + small %) will be automatically paid out if you ship sinks in a battle (to a player or to an NPC vessel). 
Insurance will only be provided for the ships crafted by the players (not for the admiralty ships or imported vessels, which are not covered by policies). 

 

I think this is a move in the right direction. Personally, I believe moving away from a durability based model was the wrong move to begin with and this is merely a bandaid to the current system. I submit that the main problem is lack of module availability. I think making modules bind to the account could solve most problems, or make them all easily craftable. 

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1 hour ago, Borch said:

Put this way, it makes sense thing is, you make mistake thinking that casuals loose their time "grinding". Its the main feature of casual player gameplay. He jumps to PvP whenever he feels confident (or bored of PvE) enough and no fear of loosing assets is only secondary on his list (if not even further down the list). 

1. Restructure rewards argument works for me but like I pointed out, "regrind" is not a probem in many casuals cases as its their usual way to play the game.

2. Agreed but fear of gear loss is not the main reason for casuals not to participate in PvP.

3. Thats a good and vaild point.

 

It means that you need to explain people why for example sinking pays you insurance while being boarded not. The instruction to the game is taking more and more pages with features that are not completely understandable ( for example not many people know why you cant use deck guns boarding in your Hercules against quite often bigger ship). You may think that its not important the more features like that and the harder to comprehend game becomes and its not about mastering your in game skill.

I'm afraid that the insurance money will be mostly used by hardcore players and casuals for which this feature is supposedly planned wont use it as often. But maybe I'm wrong seeing Admin's point 2 and 3.

Developement of bad features takes time and money. Better to find and discuss possibly broken feature before it is implemented to the game. Also check my answer to Jodgi.

Grinding is always a waste of time. It's boring and merely filler that is a poor substitute for actual gameplay. The grind is what Poor game developers use to fill a persons time in their game for lack of imagination to create interesting content. Honestly, as long as loss is so devastating to the player, they won't attract a large player base. There is multiple reasons why world of warships is immensely popular and this game is not. In world of warships the grind is best done in pvp. Loss merely means reduced income, not starting from scratch every time.  This insurance plan is a good start but probably not enough. 

Edited by Sir Malachy Karrde
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Casual vs Hardcore... weeee.... casual time spending... or hardcore time spending... ? Casual approach to PvP or hardcore PvP'er ? Casual interest for the age of sail or hardcore age of sail grognard ? casual arcader ? or hardcore arcader ? hardcore sim and casual sim ? I never know what casual and hardcore means for you guys :) 

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2 hours ago, SirAlatriste said:

I think this is not historical, but this is a small thing with pros.

your joking right .... the whole idea of insurance was built upon people betting on whether a ship would complete its journey .. in lloyds coffee house

this became known as insurance where a ship owner would bet against his ship making it home ,, therefore if he lost his ship and cargo he would still get cash ... hence lloyds of london was born

its no different tp car insurance where the premium is in effect you betting through your monthly premium that your car will be damaged or stolen ... the insurers bet is that it wont they win they get to keep your premium

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5 hours ago, z4ys said:

What about modules? In most cases they exceed the buy price of the ship by millions.

Tbh personally I never felt sorry for the ship only for the lost modules.

The other thing is that players always sell ships overpriced. Ships that are worth 100k of materials are sold for 500k. Sure it's kind of our mistake but I fail to see how this small pocket money will change the situation that captains rather fight than run.

 

Pls tell me what are the benefits of the insurance? Will I have to pay the insurance price on top of the buy price because merchants think they can make even more profit because it's actual free money for me?

 

I haven't fully digested the math yet but this might actually improve the bottom of the crafting markets.  Which is where the newer players live.

I've never gotten anywhere near that 5 to 1 return.  It's more like 1-1/2 to 1 when I factor in hitting the wall on labor hours as a single-account player.  In the larger ships that doesn't take very long.

5 to 1 (or better) is reserved for players with alts.  Free labor and easier access to specialty resources.

Edited by John Jacob Astor
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33 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

your joking right .... the whole idea of insurance was built upon people betting on whether a ship would complete its journey .. in lloyds coffee house

this became known as insurance where a ship owner would bet against his ship making it home ,, therefore if he lost his ship and cargo he would still get cash ... hence lloyds of london was born

its no different tp car insurance where the premium is in effect you betting through your monthly premium that your car will be damaged or stolen ... the insurers bet is that it wont they win they get to keep your premium

Side point.  I’m not familiar with Lloyd’s ever insuring a Royal Navy vessel, however...  I may be wrong, but I don’t think so.  

Kind of immaterial to game play, but just kinda making discussion. 🙂

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30 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Side point.  I’m not familiar with Lloyd’s ever insuring a Royal Navy vessel, however...  I may be wrong, but I don’t think so.  

Kind of immaterial to game play, but just kinda making discussion. 🙂

I think most insurance policies would have an "act of war" clause and as in this game the whole area is a war zone all insurance would be null and void. 🙂

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4 hours ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

There's no mechanic in the world in any game that can "fight" a player knowing how to play the game. ( do not read "gaming the game" )

It could be all Grey 0/5 ships for all. It would make no difference. The player that learned to "master" the ship, wind, gunnery, etc will ALWAYS have a upper hand against a guy that just arrived.

Will be true in checkers and in NA.

True there is no substitute for experience, but you can't deny that 5/5 ships allow a player to game the metas far more than a grey 0/5 ship does. Atm it has nothing to do with skill - atleast that's my hypothesis.. If you ask the casual player they refer to experiences where they hit masts as much as the opponent but it's their mast that falls and not the opponents. The reason is simple enough - Elite french rig refit, coupled with french gunnery sergent.. Add to that northern master carpenters, bow figure rattlesnake and just a carta refit for the fun of it and one player - the socalled "hardcore" player, has a distinct and tangible experience and hardware advantage over the opponent effectually negating any skill difference real or perceived between the players.. The problem is that the experienced PvP'er is the one with the best ship, the best upgrades, the best books and will win any fight without breaking a real sweat.

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2 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Side point.  I’m not familiar with Lloyd’s ever insuring a Royal Navy vessel, however...  I may be wrong, but I don’t think so.  

Kind of immaterial to game play, but just kinda making discussion. 🙂

True but they have insured privateers, as I recall (and pls correct me if my recollection is flawed)..

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lol, you killed the game again

 

introducing again ''durabilities'' will stop crafting ships cause we can use always the same, and get bored cause if i win my enemy doesn't lose nothing...if i lose, i don't lose nothing...so, why play anymore?

comfort never help people to learn and develop...never

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1 minute ago, huliotkd said:

lol, you killed the game again

 

introducing again ''durabilities'' will stop crafting ships cause we can use always the same, and get bored cause if i win my enemy doesn't lose nothing...if i lose, i don't lose nothing...so, why play anymore?

comfort never help people to learn and develop...never

To be fair that's the situation we have atm.. We might lose the ship but everything can be replaced with no difficulty..

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some people just want to shoot guns and see the smoke

but if ship gets captured and delivered to admiralty the insurance doesn't cover.

7 hours ago, admin said:

 Crafted ship must end up on the bottom of the ocean in your battle to claim the insurance.

 

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These questions may have already been answered in which case I apologize.

Is the insurance free and automatically included on all crafted ships or is it purchased by the crafter or customer?

Does insurance include the cost of the permit?

Does a blue 3/5 ship have the same insured value as a gold 5/5 of the same wood type?

Does a fir/fir ship have the same insured value as the same ship in teak/white oak?

If a teak/white oak has a higher insured value than a fir/fir, then how is the value of teak or white oak determined?  If the developers wish to have a market based economy, it seems that the value of rare woods will be hard to peg.

If I give away a ship, is it still insured for the same value?  If so, then the price of a "free" ship would be have to be set at the insured value.  Similarly, I often place ships on the market below cost to clear my docks and help my nation.  If the ship is insured at the same value regardless of purchase price, then the lowest price one would expect to see on the market is the (after tax) insured value.

I don't understand why insurance will not be inflationary.  It will increase the money supply and establish a base value for all crafted ships, which will in turn raise the cost of all ships

If the purpose of insurance is to help new players, then perhaps insurance should be tested first on small ships like 5th rates and below.

I think we have a very good market driven economy at the moment.  The developers have done a good job of creating the framework for this economy to grow naturally and organically. It is not always fair, and It is not perfect, as no economy is.  It is based on supply and demand.  But managed economies always fail.  I urge the developers to not try to make the economy perfect or "fair," and to not try to fix what ain't broke.

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