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Naval insurance comes to the Caribbean

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14 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

so to in order to void insurance and generate as much salt as possible we simple need to board and keep the ship then destroy it when we get back to port. sounds legit. 

Well, you want salt or admiralty payment ?... If you destroy it you cannot submit it to the admiralty, right ?

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Good news everyone.
In one of the next patches crafted ships will be come with navy insurance. 

Insurance at base price (ship material cost + small %) will be automatically paid out if you ship sinks in a battle (to a player or to an NPC vessel). 
Insurance will only be provided for the ships crafted by the players (not for the admiralty ships or imported vessels, which are not covered by policies). 

 

Idea for a new Mechanic !! Insurance companies run by clans for clans!!

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16 minutes ago, qw569 said:

sorry @admin but insurance is like fake feature.

Insurance will operate with base price of resources.

For example white oak log will cost 112 but average price in the shop is 2875.

No  need Insurance just decrease amount of resources for building ship.

Economy rebalance will reduce the price pressure on resources. 

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10 minutes ago, admin said:

Insurance should have appeared long time ago, but its better now then never. We have only seen the benefits when reworking economy and rewards systems. 
2 main reasons are - help the new player recover faster and not get stuck in the permanent vicious cycle of losses, and control inflation (counter intuitive, but insurance will actually reduces inflation, because it allows to change the rewards to more historical and less inflationary ones).

You need to understand that the thing keeping casual players out of PvP is not money. Casual players mostly dont have problems with money as they dont have a problem with running missions killing AI. Its fun for them to sail different ships and shoot. If you're going to provide "SAFE" safe zone then there wont be a need for insurance. It is going to help mostly more hardcore players. What if you wont make SAFE zone in the game? It is still going to help mostly more hardcore players. People who are afraid of PvP still wont do it. Its not about money but about being ridiculed and most of all loosing. Failing is only an option in your life optional activity (playing NA) thats why most people choose the safe route.

Last argument against insurance. People in the past had 5 dura ships and could craft them almost any time they wanted. Did it help with PvP? I dont think so. We had more PvP because playerbase was bigger and players could more easily find groups (playing in groups give players more courage) but 5 dura itself wasnt much of a help.

Overall in my opinion insurance is only a fake feature not fulfilling its original purpose and making the game only more complicated ( same way as various taxes like ideas with lineships etc). The game need to be as simple as it can be in that department.

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54 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

so to in order to void insurance and generate as much salt as possible we simple need to board and keep the ship then destroy it when we get back to port. sounds legit. 

How about each ship having a one-time insurance certificate.

If the ship is sunk or captured insurance is paid but the ship no longer has a certificate and a second claim by a second owner cannot be made.

This would mean that:

- Each player built ship issued with an insurance certificate which stays with the ship until it is captured or sunk.

- Player built ships, 'legally' purchased or swapped in port, maintain their insurance certificate with insurance money paid out to the captain that is sailing the ship and looses it in battle, by any cause, including surrender (there needs to be a way for the purchaser to see/know that the ship has an insurance certificate before agreeing to a purchase or not).

- Captured ships loose their insurance certificate once captured.

 

@admin I think the above should stop the multi-claim exploit you are concerned about and the salted KOC.

 

INSURANCE OPTIONS (some could be DLC), perhaps create insurance cover options for:

- enhanced insurance cover purchase for fixed upgrades and cannon on a ship.

- enhanced insurance cover purchase for hold contents, perhaps purchased and fitted to the ship as a permanent mod.

- enhanced cover for ships 'lost' and electively destroyed following port capture. Includes trapped-in-port ships and warehouse items (purchasable perk?).

- insurance tax at port of certificate purchase set by port owner.

- Underwriter perk, someone who can make insurance certificates (prolific forger addition) (i.e. they cost less or enhance cover)

- etc. etc.

 

Buster (Lloyds of London init)

Edited by Busterbloodvessel
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23 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Well, you want salt or admiralty payment ?... If you destroy it you cannot submit it to the admiralty, right ?

salt is way more valuable than pvp mark/combat mark/gold 

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27 minutes ago, Borch said:

You need to understand that the thing keeping casual players out of PvP is not money…  most of all loosing.

Automatic crafted ship insurance is not only about the money but about the reducing the loss and changing the reward system, which is one of the goals for the insurance.

Here is the practical example.

Assume there are only 2 players.
Player 1 loses in 10 from 11 battles. Player 2 wins in 10 from 11 battles
Cost to build the ship is 300k and reward is 300k (150k*2 pvp bonus) + pvp marks and combat marks. 
Rewards were always increased during early access because they were supposed to increase incentives to go out and fight, but this was a mistake. 

Here is what happens now..

  • Player 2 sinks 10 ships, earns 3,000 (3mln) + marks. This 3 mln increase price pressure in the market and is increasing the recovery cost for the Player 1.  
  • Player 1 loses 10 ships, recovery cost is 3,000k (3 mln). He loses more and more every time and can only recover by PVE. Grind also brings money into the game, generating even higher prices. Grind is forced onto the average player until he can acquire skill + inflation goes up and up. Grinding is not giving the player 1 required skills = wastes his time.

So the obvious benefits are

  1. Insurance allows to restructure rewards to the appropriate historical levels which removes the inflationary pressures, and reduces recovery loss, loss is less painful because you are not forced to regrind. 
  2. Gear fear is lowered and cost of loss is minimal (especially if Player 1 crafts the ships). Grind is not forced on those who dont want to pve but cannot yet win consistently.
  3. Crafted ships start to matter more.



 

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17 minutes ago, Borch said:

making the game only more complicated

How does it make it more complicated? It seems automatic and simple to me.

How can insurance cash when people fight it out and sink do any harm?

21 minutes ago, Borch said:

insurance is only a fake feature

If you're right... Still no harm done...or?

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1 hour ago, Borch said:

Can you please expand on this and tell us how you expect this feature going to help the game in your opinion?

every + development feature will help the game, it is not that difficult to understand

the more the better

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Just now, Nelsons Barrel said:

If we gonna get rid of money sinks, I would suggest we gonna get rid of port maintenance, too!

That's a port Conquest TIMER rule. :) 

So the clan/friendly clans decide if they don't ming to play all the time in - multiple round earth timezones -  game or just a 2 hours per day conquest game.

Nothing to do with money sink directly. It is a indirect mechanic for "making the clan accountable for their choice".

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Just now, Hethwill the Harmless said:

That's a port Conquest TIMER rule. :) 

So the clan/friendly clans decide if they don't ming to play all the time in - multiple round earth timezones -  game or just a 2 hours per day conquest game.

Nothing to do with money sink directly. It is a indirect mechanic for "making the clan accountable for their choice".

Even a port with no timer cost you 100k each and single day. I guess you didn't know.

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48 minutes ago, qw569 said:

sorry @admin but insurance is like fake feature.

Insurance will operate with base price of resources.

For example white oak log will cost 112 but average price in the shop is 2875.

No  need Insurance just decrease amount of resources for building ship.

This is the base price.  You never get what you paid for.  When you claim insurance they rarely add in rims stereo and other stuff to your car when it gets total.  You get the base cost of the car insured and than take away for wear and tear.  Your brand new 100k car is no longer worth 100k the moment it drives off the lot

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I support this 100%!

Only the basic cost of the ship and cannons (they can be quite expensive for new players!) should be paid out, no mods or reps though. High value ships and mods are money sinks for veteran players who want to increase their combat effectiveness by risking more value and therefore should not be insured. This change will help newbies recover from capital sealclubbing and let them have an easy time in patrol zones (basic strong sail, basic hull, elephant bow figure is the best combo anyways).

Regarding the payout: I guess youll determine it as if the player was harvesting the ressources himself? Will you also give out compensation for labour hours, maybe in contracts? Because if a rookie sinks and wants to get right back into action he might not want to wait 2 days for his labour hours to regenerate. Of course, this is still a community game, so he could ask in nation chat to buy a cheap ship. Another problem is how do you value the frames and planks? Woods are not harvested and therefore dont have fixed prices.

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What Admin says:

2 hours ago, admin said:

Good news everyone.
In one of the next patches crafted ships will be come with navy insurance. 

Insurance at base price (ship material cost + small %) will be automatically paid out if you ship sinks in a battle (to a player or to an NPC vessel). 
Insurance will only be provided for the ships crafted by the players (not for the admiralty ships or imported vessels, which are not covered by policies).  

 

 

What i see:

FIRESHIPS!!!

 

 

but yeah, i like the idea :D

Edited by Roronoa Sensei
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Don’t add cannons, keep it simple just base price of ship.  Every time you sink you will still loose money just not every thing.  Keep it simple.

i fought very hard to get xp for damage back in game to help out the casuals, low levels and new players and I like this concept very much.  It won’t replace the ship and goods but it will make lost batted not hurt as bad as they get Co and some gold back in return for there lost ships.  Maybe some marks if they got any assist or kills in the fight.

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In the end it just means cheaper ships which is nice for people who want to fight.

23 minutes ago, admin said:

Automatic crafted ship insurance is not only about the money but about the reducing the loss and changing the reward system, which is one of the goals for the insurance.
Rewards were always increased during early access because they were supposed to increase incentives to go out and fight, but this was a mistake. 

You could increase the XP rewards to increase incentives to go out and fight and offer a real alternative to the much hated PvE slot grinding.

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24 minutes ago, admin said:

Automatic crafted ship insurance is not only about the money but about the reducing the loss and changing the reward system, which is one of the goals for the insurance.

Here is the practical example.

Assume there are only 2 players.
Player 1 loses in 10 from 11 battles. Player 2 wins in 10 from 11 battles
Cost to build the ship is 300k and reward is 300k (150k*2 pvp bonus) + pvp marks and combat marks. 
Rewards were always increased during early access because they were supposed to increase incentives to go out and fight, but this was a mistake. 

Here is what happens now..

  • Player 2 sinks 10 ships, earns 3,000 (3mln) + marks. This 3 mln increase price pressure in the market and is increasing the recovery cost for the Player 1.  
  • Player 1 loses 10 ships, recovery cost is 3,000k (3 mln). He loses more and more every time and can only recover by PVE. Grind also brings money into the game, generating even higher prices. Grind is forced onto the average player until he can acquire skill + inflation goes up and up. Grinding is not giving the player 1 required skills = wastes his time.

So the obvious benefits are

  1. Insurance allows to restructure rewards to the appropriate historical levels which removes the inflationary pressures, and reduces recovery loss, loss is less painful because you are not forced to regrind. 
  2. Gear fear is lowered and cost of loss is minimal (especially if Player 1 crafts the ships). Grind is not forced on those who dont want to pve but cannot yet win consistently.
  3. Crafted ships start to matter more.



 

Thank you for the clarification. But as king of crown wrote. Some players prefer the salt over rewards. I see great potential in this change to grief other players because it's the enemy who decided about your reward.

Are there any other changes to minimize this dependency upon the mercy the enemy will grant?

What about the pvp marks/coins will they become physical? Will breaking up ships give the moduls? Will we be able to send ships to the Admiralty to claim rewards?

I have the feeling we are missing parts of the puzzle here.

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4 minutes ago, Roronoa Sensei said:

What Admin says:

 

What i see:

FIRESHIPS!!!

 

 

but yeah, i like the idea :D

That why it shouldn’t pay for the full price that a ship sold for and remember this is crafted ships only.

@admin what about bringing back Co of crafted ships in battles used by other for crafters?  Give them a little something if they aren’t into the combat of the game and just the crafting and trading.  I also think do for sailing needs to go to ship knowledge so trade ships can gain Co for long hauls to unlock slots on them.

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Just now, Sir Texas Sir said:

That why it shouldn’t pay for the full price that a ship sold for and remember this is crafted ships only.

@admin what about bringing back Co of crafted ships in battles used by other for crafters?  Give them a little something if they aren’t into the combat of the game and just the crafting and trading.  I also think do for sailing needs to go to ship knowledge so trade ships can gain Co for long hauls to unlock slots on them.

To craft good first rates the usual clan crafts between 10 and 20 ships. All those ships that are only 3-5 will end up on the market or as roronoa mentioned as fireships. This insurance will pretty much reward you for loosing ships that way. No risks, high impact. I forsee a future of basic cutter abuse, but now with more than just basic cutters. Everything players might abuse they will abuse.

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@admin What's the price for the insurance? As I understand you now, every crafted vessel is automatically covered = no costs. 

Principally I like the idea a lot - newbies, regrind, you explained it.. I would suggest to repay the special woody at the lowest market price. The more is paid back the more abusive behaviour gets. If I learned one thing in this game it's that ppl will find a way to abuse it. Via alt pvp marks farming + extra gold now e.g. Via full fireship 1st rate fleets for screening. I suggest a rate (or BR even)-coupled insurance. The higher the BR, the smaller the insurance premium. Make it a feature for new players mainly, as most of the features being invented to help newish players get abused by ppl who actually fully understand the game. 

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