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Retag griefing


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2 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

Two player game

  • Each players owns an opposite side of a chess board.
  • A coin toss decides who moves first.
  • One checker is placed it the center 4 square of a standard chess board.
  • Each player can move the checker any direction one square.
  • Players alternate turns, of moving the checker one square, for 5 moves each.
  • If the checker is moved to a square adjacent to a players side, the player who owns the side gets a prize.
  • The player that gets a prize moves second on the next match.

 I read this whole thread and can't understand how anyone can be forced to stay in game.  I often don't have time to play for hours.  Seems like the way to succeed is so obvious.

CB05177-2.jpg?1534152438

 

How about you sail a ship that cost a few million in upgrades. Now I'm slower and don't understand sailing profiles and I tag you a bunch a times and fail to catch you over and over again. I keep tagging you every time you break off action. I keep you in battle for hours and your only option I end it is to lose that ship that you spent a lot of time and money building and equipping and lose the pvp marks that one of its mods cost. How is that NOT forcing someone to remain in game against their will? 

Im ok with hardcore, I am not ok with a group of children who think it's great fun to keep someone from logging out for 4 hours. 

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7 hours ago, koiz said:

2 times within 2 hours. Keep lying if you want but its a lie. We won in the second battle.

So hard to attack those traders! /s

You won the 4th gank attempt. Your clan wasn't the only one involved in this. There were 11 players from the Dane nation who were involved. 

 

7 hours ago, Hammy said:

Stop moaning the Dutch did the exact same thing to me, if you dont like it stay over at KPR

So because everyone does it, we shouldn't have it fixed? Sorry this wasn't a problem back when we could teleport to port after battles. It happens far too often now and it needs addressed before this game goes live. 

Edited by Sir Malachy Karrde
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8 minutes ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

You won the 4th gank attempt. Your clan wasn't the only one involved in this. There were 11 players from the Dane nation who were involved. 

So lets get this straight.

You sail around enemy waters for hours and complain when you eventually get caught by said enemy?

ITS CALLED NAVAL ACTION!

Naval Action is a hardcore, realistic, and beautifully detailed naval combat sandbox immersing players into the experience of the most beautiful period of naval history - when sailing ships ruled the seas.

Edited by koiz
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4 minutes ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

So because everyone does it, we shouldn't have it fixed? Sorry this wasn't a problem back when we could teleport to port after battles. It happens far too often now and it needs addressed before this game goes live. 

So are you complaining about us and what we did, or to the Devs about the game?

 

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1 hour ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

My question is this: is it acceptable to chain tag someone and waste their time for almost 4 hours? Especially when you failed over and over again to bring the battle to conclusion? Where is the line between an acceptable tactic and griefing? Why is there no mechanic in game that allows a player to break off action to deal with real life? Why must a player be forced to either remain in game at the whim of a childish foe or lose a ship? 

I think so too @Sir Matthew Latham. I think it would be right to reduce the seasons to a reasonable length. Not only when marking but also in the fighting itself, see my suggestion:

Das denke ich auch @Sir Malachy Karrde . Ich fände es richtig, wenn man die Spielzeiten auf eine vernünftige Länge reduziert. Nicht nur beim Anmarkieren sondern auch in den Kämpfen selbst, siehe meinen Vorschlag: 

After a few fights, I think that a total time of 1.5 hours is completely overdrawn. 60 minutes are sufficient in my opinion, too.

Nach einigen Kämpfen denke ich, dass auch eine Gesamtzeit von 1,5 Stunden Länge völlig überzogen ist. 60 Minuten reichen da meiner Meinung nach auch aus.

 

1 hour ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

As stated in my thread, a tag cooldown timer, a limited number of return to port options (1 or 2 per day to use in an emergency when one has to log and cannot engage in the chain tagging that goes on) or going to a world of warships model where loss is irrelevant could solve this exploit of game mechanics. 

I appreciate your attention to this as if this is acceptable, I intend to keep chain tagging people in the future as eventually a person can get lucky if you tag someone enough and keep them in game for 3, 4 , maybe even 5 or 6 hours, the possibilities are endless.  If it's not acceptable and not fitting in the spirit of the game, I'd like you to weigh in there too and find a solution. 

I hope that your suggestion of the @admin is rated positively.

Ich hoffe, dass Dein Vorschlag vom @admin positiv bewertet wird.

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1 hour ago, Hammy said:

So are you complaining about us and what we did, or to the Devs about the game?

 

Well, your sportsmanship is appalling but no worse than I've come to expect from people who play this game. 

That said, I posted this thread in order to point out a rather large flaw in engagements in this game. I want a developer to chime in either here or the tribunal thread and either say it's intended, (and then I'll exploit the hell out of it myself), or acknowledge the problem and fix it. That is the only thing I want. The fact it was you guys this time is immaterial. It's not the first time someone has chain tagged me, but If it's not an intended feature, I'd prefer it to be the last.

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Mate.

a) crooked+gazelle = +3.5% speed; copper+Bovenwind+NHR = +7.5% speed. A difference of 4% means approximately 0.5-.6 kts.

How do you think to push a ship from case a) at 13.9 to case b) anything close to 15?

b) did you get lost? Because if I am going from point A to point B I rarely end up like 100k++ out of any point of A-B line.

c) yours was plainly a light raider (really, crooked? I do not dare using it even on my requins; not to speak about speed trim), so not a ship to fight even a 1v1: a t/wo Hercules or other light 5th would dismantle you.

d) even the "correct" Trinco (again plain 3/5) with copper+NHR+Bovenwind is worth what? 2.5 mil+10 marks = 3.5mil.

A breeze granted you farmed 80 marks (=8 mil) out of a week. Right? Nothing to say about the one you in the end lost being worth, well, 800k?

e) hunting down raiders is intended feature. Evaluate better your available time before embarking in a trip next to a (enemy) capitol.

f) why didnt you go AFK after tagging the AI? You know: you'd get 1h45' break. Not bad for a supper.

g) looks like you have plenty time to waste in forum pvp. Type less and sail more if you dont have plenty time.

h) really. What are you discussing about? If do you want to feel the tag griefing, I can show you off: tagging again and again you from a faster ship, from safe distance and keeping you in battle for 1h30' every tag, until you log off. That could be griefing.

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@Sir Malachy Karrde After going through this whole thread I have to ask you this without any malicious intent whatsoever: Have you considered the possibility of this game just not being for you? The situation you and the opposite side described is pretty much NA in a nutshell and it won't be the last time it happened to you, if you keep playing. If you get this worked up about losing a worthless gank paper speedboat, imagine what losing a battle-worthy expensive warship would do to you, if you ever got to sailing one once you'd become more experienced. You'll have to fill a good portion of the tribunal section with your posts.

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should not hunt deep in enemy waters.... its not called griefing. its called. being dumb enough to expect no revenge around.

in a enemy zone

if i go to danish waters and sink one. i pray they are too late grouping up a revange fleet.
but i expect them todo so.

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3 hours ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

First of all, I'm not looking to get anyone punished. But I want the developers to weigh in on this problem and this is the fastest way to get your attention. 

Then you're in the wrong forum, consider "Suggestions" instead. Admin replies there constantly.

This has happened to me more times than I can count.. I've done it myself and I have been a victim of it. It's part of the game, there's nothing wrong here. Not long ago the swedes blockaded Island Harbour and trapped a friend and myself inside. I stripped off my french rig and replaced it with cotton sails, ditched everything in my hold and destroyed my guns. I managed to outrun them.

Edited by Percival Merewether
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Just so I got it right. You want to take your speedboat(Max out on speed). Kill some traders ore small ships for easy PvP marks. Then be able to run to safty go back in and do it over again, with no risk. You use AI too tag and get an advantage. The only way to deal with speedboats is to keep chasing them. They go 15,5 so even if we have a 15,5 to, with defensive tag and the change in chain, it will be a long fight, and most likely take more battles to get them.

Well now you know. Go to danish waters and there is a chance to get involved in a long chase. 

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I'd suggest a two minute invisibility timer + 1 minute tag reset to simulate getting away in open World. That should solve all problems and give people three minutes to get away in total. The reason for the 1 minute tag reset after invisibility ends is to prevent "surprise" attacks where players would have no time to react to people coming out of invisibility.

Weird thing is; I'm kind of against my own suggestion, but I know that being retagged is a problem for a lot of people. I never really seem to run into it though.

Edited by Percival Merewether
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8 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

I'd suggest a two minute invisibility timer + 1 minute tag reset to simulate getting away in open World. That should solve all problems and give people three minutes to get away in total. The reason for the 1 minute tag reset after invisibility ends is to prevent "surprise" attacks where players would have no time to react to people coming out of invisibility.

Weird thing is; I'm kind of against my own suggestion, but I know that being retagged is a problem for a lot of people. I never really seem to run into it though.

So what you ask for is basicly to a sure get away card. 

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1 minute ago, staun said:

So what you ask for is basicly to a sure get away card. 

Is that what I'm asking for Staun? Am I asking for anything at all Staun? Did you read what I wrote Staun?

I'd prefer to keep it as it is - but people are CONSTANTLY complaining about getting retagged over-and-over again. I'm suggesting a potential solution to other people's problem that won't affect myself because I usually manage to catch my enemy in the first go.. + I always surrender if I can't get away (Can replace the ship in the time it takes to run tbh..).

Try to be constructive Staun, it suits you better.

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4 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

Is that what I'm asking for Staun? Am I asking for anything at all Staun? Did you read what I wrote Staun?

I'd prefer to keep it as it is - but people are CONSTANTLY complaining about getting retagged over-and-over again. I'm suggesting a potential solution to other people's problem that won't affect myself because I usually manage to catch my enemy in the first go.. + I always surrender if I can't get away (Can replace the ship in the time it takes to run tbh..).

Try to be constructive Staun, it suits you better.

Two minute invisibility. Doo you know how far away you get. I gladly lay still, give you a headstart. For a test. I will never catch up to you. 

We can agree on thats what you surgested. Surgestion isent that like asking for something, ore do I misunderstand the word. You ask me. Two min would be the same as tell guys in Fir fir ships, that they have almost non risk of being caught.

Edited by staun
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1 hour ago, staun said:

Two minute invisibility. Doo you know how far away you get. I gladly lay still, give you a headstart. For a test. I will never catch up to you. 

I know, but it will stop their endless complaining.

Problem is: Then we will have a bunch of people from to opposite camp complaining and insisting on no invisibility and 30 sec retag timer.. You'll never satisfy everyone, so satisfy the majority.

Again: I don't understand the problem, I very rarely have to tag twice - and I very rarely get tagged more than once. If I am up against a superior force that I cannot beat I simply surrender. Move on..

Perhaps the problem lies somewhere else: Control radius, Navy Loodsman, Sail Force mods? Consider that too.

 

1 hour ago, staun said:

We can agree on thats what you surgested. Surgestion isent that like asking for something, ore do I misunderstand the word.

No it’s not, and yes you are misunderstanding the word. Don’t worry though - google is very helpful with that 😊

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11 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

I know, but it will stop their endless complaining.

Problem is: Then we will have a bunch of people from to opposite camp complaining and insisting on no invisibility and 30 sec retag timer.. You'll never satisfy everyone, so satisfy the majority.

Again: I don't understand the problem, I very rarely have to tag twice - and I very rarely get tagged more than once. If I am up against a superior force that I cannot beat I simply surrender. Move on..

Perhaps the problem lies somewhere else: Control radius, Navy Loodsman, Sail Force mods? Consider that too.

I for sure don’t hope we are going to please the majority. Then we will have no PVP left in the game.

 What I advocate for is fair and balanced solutions. But when ppl ask for a better chance to get away and in the same post tell me, the “Revenge fleet” had to chase them for several  hours and multi battles, well then I have a hard time see the problem. The story would be different if they got killed everytime. Thats not my personal experience, neither as the hunter ore the hunted.

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There are occasions when you are kept in the game far longer than you want to be.  RL is very mad when she requires your attention and you cant give it.  Yes there is the Surrender option, but that is not great for game retention.  I asked a guy the other night if we could stop.  He couldn't catch me, but he could keep me in the battle.  He suggested I surrender.  Obviously had time to spare.  The re-tagging can be very bad.  If it looks like im going to be stuck in that kind of chase, yes, I will just fight or even surrender.  Very unsatisfying.  Some of you say don't hunt in enemy waters then!.. That's where the enemy is. 

Historically, small battles (1 ship against 1 or two) happened in solitude.  There was no chat box or comms to call for help.  The hunter and the victim(s) did their thing and then had the time to sort out damage, prize crews, etc.  It could be days or even weeks before another ship was sighted and it often took months before people at home knew a ship was lost.  So maybe a "get away free" card should be used.  2 minute invisibility?  Or else move you in OW to where you've ended up in the battle instance.  It's just silly, that you can be in a battle for 90 minutes and when you come out, there are half a dozen ships strategically placed to jump on you exactly where they know you will appear. 

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1 hour ago, Percival Merewether said:

I know, but it will stop their endless complaining.

Problem is: Then we will have a bunch of people from to opposite camp complaining and insisting on no invisibility and 30 sec retag timer.. You'll never satisfy everyone, so satisfy the majority.

Again: I don't understand the problem, I very rarely have to tag twice - and I very rarely get tagged more than once. If I am up against a superior force that I cannot beat I simply surrender. Move on..

Perhaps the problem lies somewhere else: Control radius, Navy Loodsman, Sail Force mods? Consider that too.

Actually it would only start a new sequence of complaining - this time from the coastguards bitchin' that there is no real chance to kill a raider in their own waters. The discussions has been had a multitude of times before.. I like the invisibility timer, and if OP had just picked the least obvious route to run away in he wouldn't have been cought..

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