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Lars Kjaer

Trading

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Suggestion:

Remove all trading goods from any and all ports protected by the reinforcement zones. Remove their consumption of trading goods as well.

Allow clans/nations that own an entire region make the regional capital consume/produce national goods. Make carribean goods craftable (tobacco etc) for labour hours and only consumed by treasure fleets (fixed schedule, spawn at random locations and with a random route).

Reason?:

To allow noobs the safezones to level up and experience the game, yet making RvR (especially port control/region control), raiding, and trading matter again.

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Trading resources systems will change slightly and will sort of remind what you proposed - but not in the next patch. In 1 patch.

 

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Interesting suggestion.  

Have all capital ports consume (I assume they already do) to create a nice steady flow of traders into and out of the zones (make sure tow to capitals is removed though) and have all player owned ports generate some sort of trade good relative to their BR importance. 

Introduce a low level good that spawns in safe zone NPC ports that can be consumed in various player owned ports to create an opportunity for new traders to branch out in to the real world.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

Trading resources systems will change slightly and will sort of remind what you proposed - but not in the next patch. In 1 patch.

 

I can tell the guys that don't trade, cause the ports are already like this.  No one makes money off trade goods inside the zones.  US zones gives mainly US goods which you get little to no profits off at the capitial.  You have to pick up goods out side the zone and bring them in to make any money.   Also forcing traders out side the zone is never going to give them more sheep to hunt.

As @Christendom puts it low risk low profit goods should still be in the zones for those that need to make a little cash, if you want to make the big bucks you have to go out side the zone, which is pretty much how it is at this time in game, but can be tweeked a bit more.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

Trading resources systems will change slightly and will sort of remind what you proposed - but not in the next patch. In 1 patch.

 

trading goods only serve one player. Removing them and only focus on crafting materials/resources would help everyone.

Bring real trade to the caribbean

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1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I can tell the guys that don't trade, cause the ports are already like this.  No one makes money off trade goods inside the zones.  US zones gives mainly US goods which you get little to no profits off at the capitial.  You have to pick up goods out side the zone and bring them in to make any money.   Also forcing traders out side the zone is never going to give them more sheep to hunt.

As @Christendom puts it low risk low profit goods should still be in the zones for those that need to make a little cash, if you want to make the big bucks you have to go out side the zone, which is pretty much how it is at this time in game, but can be tweeked a bit more.

Except atm all trade converge into the reinforcementzones which is the issue - there is no real course de guerre as long as the magic of the reinforcementzones allows the nations to magically protect their traders.. The only ones getting killed in the reinforcementzones is the noobs being ganked by the le requins..

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3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

@ChristendomNo one makes money off trade goods inside the zones.  US zones gives mainly US goods which you get little to no profits off at the capitial.  You have to pick up goods out side the zone and bring them in to make any money. 

The nations are very different in this regard.  In some nations you have to travel to an enemy capital (i.e. suicide) to use any of the high profit trade goods.  In other nations the "foreign" high-value trade goods are spawning at ports literally around the corner from your capital, and far from any enemies.  Obviously the nations that don't have capitals are also completely different. 

I just wish the fake trade goods would disappear entirely.  I want to see an economy based on crafting resources and crafted goods. 

 

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There needs to be some sort of organic traffic in and out of the zones.  Coast lines need to be busy and escorting or raiding should be a thing.  

Low level goods generated inside to be sold outside and high level goods outside to be sold inside is a good start.

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1 hour ago, Christendom said:

There needs to be some sort of organic traffic in and out of the zones.  Coast lines need to be busy and escorting or raiding should be a thing. 

If I could see contract activity without visiting a port I would be hauling to markets all over the map.  Rather than being stuck doing contracts in the small handful of locations where they actually get filled.

You place a contract for repairs, I bring them to fill it.  Of course there needs to be actual player buyers, something which I assume the economy re-balance is going to address.  Which means getting rid of the game mechanics that compete directly against player production.  Like repair drops.  And the Eurotrader.  Which becomes irrelevant if a buyer can see a lower contract price in a nearby port.

There would be some actual organic dispersion of players.  And some of the current green zone arguments might also become irrelevant.

Edited by John Jacob Astor
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Excuse me, but I have the feeling that all your suggestions have the sole purpose of guiding the shipping movements of the dealers in certain channels. A functioning economy also means making the game more challenging and more complex. Instead of always removing all currently pure trading goods from the game, it would be possible to give meaning to every trade good. But this also requires a lot of programming work. I doubt that the devs are ready for it.

I imagine that very nice, we have 1500 players and there is a permanent shipping in or out of the zones. And the PvP players line up left and right, then pick out the dealers.

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Actually there should be no tradegoods and no crafting inside the reinforcementzones.. Both trading and crafting influence RvR and PvP, rather the reinforcementzones should be protection for new players/players that wish to lvl up their ships, this wouldn't affect other aspects of the game as much - especially if the rewards for sinking AI is reduced to roughly the expenses used in the battle(s).

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50 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Actually there should be no tradegoods and no crafting inside the reinforcementzones.. Both trading and crafting influence RvR and PvP, rather the reinforcementzones should be protection for new players/players that wish to lvl up their ships, this wouldn't affect other aspects of the game as much - especially if the rewards for sinking AI is reduced to roughly the expenses used in the battle(s).

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you but what do new players who want to do crafting do?

I've been playing as a crafter/merchant pretty much since I started.  Without that capability in the green zones I would have never gotten off the ground.

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41 minutes ago, John Jacob Astor said:

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you but what do new players who want to do crafting do?

I've been playing as a crafter/merchant pretty much since I started.  Without that capability in the green zones I would have never gotten off the ground.

New players that want to do crafting play like the rest of us - with risk. Risk vs rewards.

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1 hour ago, Lars Kjaer said:

New players that want to do crafting play like the rest of us - with risk. Risk vs rewards.

 

I'm not advocating for zero risk. 

But zero crafting in protected zones is not a recipe for new player retention.

Outposts with shipyards and other buildings are not trivial acquisitions for a brand new player.  Starting up in capture-able port makes the new player's game hostage to the misfortune of being recruited by an incompetent clan.  With all their stuff stuck in an enemy port.

If you actually want zero crafting in the green zones, new player activity in the open world needs to be less dependent on a clan's ability to hold a port.

Edited by John Jacob Astor

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37 minutes ago, John Jacob Astor said:

If you actually want zero crafting in the green zones, new player activity in the open world needs to be less dependent on clan membership.

New player activity in OW is already not dependant from clan membership. And it would even less dependant if coupled with above trading/crafting and (smaller and not exploitable) true no-pvp safezones.

Even if I keep thinking better to let new players starting with neutral flag in no-pvp starting area with only basic loot/craft/ships. As they leave (and they can level up there to man a 3rd rate) with 1 free forged paper, only one way trip.

And rest of the map full PvP/RvR and therefore far more meaningful economic wars to cripple enemy efforts.

Edited by Licinio Chiavari

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17 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

New player activity in OW is already not dependant from clan membership. And it would even less dependent if coupled with above trading/crafting and (smaller and not exploitable) true no-pvp safezones.

It actually is dependent.  Possibly not if the new player is a mostly PvP guy, but most definitely if the new player is going to craft ships and sell resources/goods at contract. 

Clan collapses or just can't get it together and the port goes away.  And you get to figure out how to retrieve your stuff.  And start over elsewhere.

If the debacle in my first clan had also cost me access to what I had spent a month learning how to put together, somehow I doubt I would be still playing the game.

 

Quote

Even if I keep thinking better to let new players starting with neutral flag in no-pvp starting area with only basic loot/craft/ships. As they leave (and they can level up there to man a 3rd rate) with 1 free forged paper, only one way trip.

Which I could support.  Then a new player could actually learn the game.  But this is not the zero crafting I was responding to.

Quote

And rest of the map full PvP/RvR and therefore far more meaningful economic wars to cripple enemy efforts.

I am all for this.

Edited by John Jacob Astor
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50 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Even if I keep thinking better to let new players starting with neutral flag in no-pvp starting area with only basic loot/craft/ships. As they leave (and they can level up there to man a 3rd rate) with 1 free forged paper, only one way trip..

What about starting everyone on the PvE server and allowing a character transfer (below a certain rank).

Possibly simpler to code?  I don't have an opinion on that but it might be an alternative.  Then the Caribbean server could be wide open.

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2 hours ago, John Jacob Astor said:

What about starting everyone on the PvE server and allowing a character transfer (below a certain rank).

Possibly simpler to code?  I don't have an opinion on that but it might be an alternative.  Then the Caribbean server could be wide open.

The most probable critic is pve server should allow full farming activities, being people playing and staying there.

Then transferring would be quite an head start (far easier getting rich and farm stuff without having to deal pvp?).

IMO it's a no issue... People even rich and geared with zero pvp experience will be massacred. Formally you'll make pve server the "noob server".

Coding wise, no idea which is the simplest way: we had a Bahamas starting area, so I do not think difficult making a new one may be as proposed in the Gulf to leave Bahamas for shallow game.

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I get most of my traders out at sea not in the reinforcement zones.

Edited by Crow

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Zero crafting in green zone would make all nations like Russia, Poland and Prussia. If all capturable ports are lost, goto free towns.

Hoping that ships for PB can be crafted using only these areas.

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21 hours ago, John Jacob Astor said:

With all their stuff stuck in an enemy port.

Not sure what you mean by "all their stuff".  Ships and goods can be accessed.  Outposts and buildings cost less to move than to establish.  I have stuff in enemy ports.

I like the idea of more player interaction.  I used to be able to sell my labor to players, by crafting items in return for gold or other stuff. No-one wants my labor anymore.  I offer to sell stuff but there are seldom players who wish to buy.  The response that I hear, repeatedly, is that they have everything that they need and are self sufficient.

Seems better to allow players to figure out how to trade, rather than creating forced mechanics that restrict players, but currently there seems to nothing I can transport or craft than anyone wants.  Perhaps I just have not discovered what it is.  I might be able to sell White Oak but can't find a source to buy it at a decent price.  It may be that resources are limited only to players who do not have an alt.  I should get an alt, and then I can trade with myself.

Re-enforcement zones are not secure for new players, because they have such a high level of PvP.  Veteran players advise new starts to avoid the re-enforcement zones and trade, or engage NPCs, in safer areas.  This advice often goes unheeded.  It would be interesting to see if the PvP opportunities decrease if trading and crafting is not available in the reinforcement zones.  Dispersing the newbies away from these zones could result in less contact between traders and raiders.

The economy is important.  Not everyone wants to progress through combat.  Some of us enjoy being merchants.  Hopefully there is a place for traders in NA.

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Trading should be a bigger part of the game and there should be a bigger variety of trade ships imo. A good trading system appeals to a wider audience. I have friends that wont play this game because the trading system lacks depth and there is nothing to spend money on (besides expensive combat ships and upgrades). There needs to be more money sinks that benefit non-combat focused players, such as base building or an influence system for this game to attract more players.

Edited by Capn Rocko
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10 hours ago, Macjimm said:

Not sure what you mean by "all their stuff".  Ships and goods can be accessed.  Outposts and buildings cost less to move than to establish.  I have stuff in enemy ports.

Stuck might be too strong a word.  But I think it rather a lot to expect someone a few weeks into the game and still sorting out how the economy works (such as it is) to have to sort dodging enemy vessels so they can get at their shipyard or associated resource production.  As the loss of a port might very well be accompanied by the collapse or dysfunction in whatever clan they are in, a fairly new player might be suddenly without much in the way of resources or support.

Six months later I would not see this as an insurmountable problem.  But it's easy to forget how confusing this game was when I first started playing.

Quote

I like the idea of more player interaction.  I used to be able to sell my labor to players, by crafting items in return for gold or other stuff. No-one wants my labor anymore.  I offer to sell stuff but there are seldom players who wish to buy.  The response that I hear, repeatedly, is that they have everything that they need and are self sufficient.

Seems better to allow players to figure out how to trade, rather than creating forced mechanics that restrict players, but currently there seems to nothing I can transport or craft than anyone wants.  Perhaps I just have not discovered what it is.  I might be able to sell White Oak but can't find a source to buy it at a decent price.  It may be that resources are limited only to players who do not have an alt.  I should get an alt, and then I can trade with myself.

This is what is fundamentally wrong with the player economy at the moment.  Something I am hoping is addressed by the upcoming patch.  Players with alts do not really need to buy much, if anything from other players.  Nor do single-account players with the new Admiralty DLC.  Both alts and the DLC allow players to have a completely asymmetric relationship with the player-to-player economy. 

They might be sellers.  But they do not need to be buyers.

Quote

Re-enforcement zones are not secure for new players, because they have such a high level of PvP.  Veteran players advise new starts to avoid the re-enforcement zones and trade, or engage NPCs, in safer areas.  This advice often goes unheeded.  It would be interesting to see if the PvP opportunities decrease if trading and crafting is not available in the reinforcement zones.  Dispersing the newbies away from these zones could result in less contact between traders and raiders.

The economy is important.  Not everyone wants to progress through combat.  Some of us enjoy being merchants.  Hopefully there is a place for traders in NA.

I completely agree.  The player economy is what attracted me to the game.  But all sellers and few buyers results in not much economy at all.

Regarding dispersion, put player contracts on the same footing in the trader tool as the port stock and the dispersion might happen all by itself, without much fiddling with the economics of the reinforcement zones.

And as I said above a good bit of the green zone arguments might just become irrelevant.

 

 

Edited by John Jacob Astor
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On 9/14/2018 at 5:14 PM, Lars Kjaer said:

Suggestion:

Remove all trading goods from any and all ports protected by the reinforcement zones. Remove their consumption of trading goods as well.

Allow clans/nations that own an entire region make the regional capital consume/produce national goods. Make carribean goods craftable (tobacco etc) for labour hours and only consumed by treasure fleets (fixed schedule, spawn at random locations and with a random route).

Reason?:

To allow noobs the safezones to level up and experience the game, yet making RvR (especially port control/region control), raiding, and trading matter again.

I would pretty much appreciate something like this or any kind of content that gives purpose RvR and trading/raiding for that matter. No matter how much fun fighting is, it gets stale at some point when you fight for nothing. +1

Edited by Sovereign
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8 hours ago, Sovereign said:

No matter how much fun fighting is, it gets stale at some point when you fight for nothing.

While I wholeheartedly agree with you, but the number of players who play Call of Duty, Rainbow 6 and Battlefield obviously like fighting for no other reason than ... to fight.

There are tens, to hundreds, of thousands of people playing those games at any given moment, and they are not likely interested in any content ... except to fight.

Perhaps some of those millions who enjoyed those games are here in the NA community.

I think we may be outnumbered.

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