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Kilo60

Le Requin is ruining the game for me!

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Players who buy this DLC are cruising around w/ almost 400 crew and can outrun any ship in the game!

 

All they do is board and attack in packs and are more formidable than a damn Constitution or Victory!

 

How the heck are you supposed to fight them?

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Just now, Wraith said:

Psst. This is a secret!  (RUN DOWN WIND). ;)

 

2 minutes ago, Kilo60 said:

How the heck are you supposed to fight them?

 

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2 hours ago, Kilo60 said:

How the heck are you supposed to fight them?

Fire a broadside of grape at that giant open deck... oh wait 😃

Edited by Capn Rocko
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@Liq If you're a new player with few skills.. simply: you don't. But there have always been ships that in the right hands you don't have a counter to.

If you're a better player, you bring a Navy Brig ala @William Death. ;) 

But they will almost always be able to escape upwind if you can't demast them, so if they don't want to fight, then you'll never sink them. So the answer is to just not engage if you don't have the tools.  The thing that all the handwringers ignore is that this has always been the case with certain ships and ship builds in the past. It just hasn't been combined with a tool that has the offensive capability of the Requin.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not a Requin fan boy and I think it should be reclassed a 5th rate and banned entirely from shallow water PBs. But, saying that it's ruining your game goes a bit far when it's so easy to counter in the OW.

 

Edited by Wraith
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I do not think the Le Requin is killing the game. There are just some very frustrating scenarios with her.

1. Reinforcementzones: If a captain with no PvP experience is attacked by a Requin, he will get rageboarded within minutes. This is very frustrating and will cause/ has caused many new players to quit (refering to the steam reviews). But this is not the problem of the La Requin, it is a problem of RoE. Safezones should be 100 save but less profitable. I recommend to read the excellent thread Percival Merewether made on this topic.

2. RvR: The Le Requin should not be allowed at Portbattles. All DLC ships should be banned from RvR.

3. OW shallowwater: Le Requin has to much crew compared to the other shallowwaterships. Maybe it could be fixed by making her crew more vulnerable for grape. The Pirat Rig Refit should not work for the La Requin (as it was in the beginning) so that she stays great and unique upwind but very poor downwind.

4. OW deepwater: see 3.

5. I think making her a 5th rate will make things even worse. Some mods for boarding will be even better than they are but she should not be able to use Light Ship Hammocks or suffer even more from grape if she uses them.

 

Edited by Sir Loorkon
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48 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

5. I think making her a 5th rate will make things even worse. Some mods for boarding will be even better than they are but she should not be able to use Light Ship Hammocks or suffer even more from grape if she uses them.

Partly uncorrect. Only 1 mod will be better (Marine15). But she'll lose bonuses on others (Muskets, Grenades), another potential book (Marine10) and will lose a big chunk on maximum crew (Hammocks book difference and no Light Hammocks perm).

Not speaking about Reinf.AIs being 5th rates and not 6th.

I would prefer a 6th requin banned from shallow PBs and rebalanced otherwise... but I agree that the fastest solution to rebalance her is moving her to 5th rates.

STILL: we are waiting mods/books system reworked. Granted 90+% of superior Requin performances (as in all other meta-ships) are mod use and abuse, I think simpler to see what's coming out the rework of the system and then rebalance her after that.

Edited by Licinio Chiavari
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12 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Partly uncorrect. Only 1 mod will be better (Marine15). But she'll lose bonuses on all others (Muskets, Grenades), another potential book (Marine10) and will lose a big chunk on maximum crew (Hammocks book difference and no Light Hammocks perm).

You are right, thats what I meant. I think Marines are the relevant upgrades, all others might not be used on a ship with one deck. So making her a 5th rate would make relevant upgrades stronger and irrelevant upgrades weaker exc. LSHammocks.

 

14 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Not speaking about Reinf.AIs being 5th rates and not 6th.

Look at my post. With 100% savezones reinforcements are obsolete.

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37 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

they can't outrun ANY ship. Neither upwind nor downwind nor at beam reach.

Hi Hethwill... Id like to ask you to please elaborate on the mindset or possibilities you expressed. I have a good idea about most ships, but Id like to know what ships you might have had in mind when you made this statement (the one I quoted). I think that short, but important list, if posted and shared, would do a great deal toward easing the "Le Requin Issue". For example, I know that, handled correctly, a Pirate Frigate can take down a Le Requin and sails downwind better - especially with the help of a mod or skill book. But, Id like to know what ships you consider to be the match of the Le Requin in each of those sailing profiles you mentioned. Id really appreciate you doing this and I imagine there will be quite a few other people interested too. With respect and in gratitude...Headless.

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22 minutes ago, Headless Parrot said:

Hi Hethwill... Id like to ask you to please elaborate on the mindset or possibilities you expressed. I have a good idea about most ships, but Id like to know what ships you might have had in mind when you made this statement (the one I quoted). I think that short, but important list, if posted and shared, would do a great deal toward easing the "Le Requin Issue". For example, I know that, handled correctly, a Pirate Frigate can take down a Le Requin and sails downwind better - especially with the help of a mod or skill book. But, Id like to know what ships you consider to be the match of the Le Requin in each of those sailing profiles you mentioned. Id really appreciate you doing this and I imagine there will be quite a few other people interested too. With respect and in gratitude...Headless.

The short answer is that all builds being equal, the Requin will always have a point of sail where it can escape (60 degrees off the wind):

969692d0e7bffd53a76542df9c5d497a.png

But, the Privateer and Lynx are good matches for its profile in general, but they suffer because chaining their sails actually slows them down upwind where it has much less of an effect on the 'Quin. And demasting the 'Quin with the 6 lb. guns on a privateer or lynx is well.. challenging. Therefore, if the Quin doesn't just out and out turn, board, make-dead those smaller ships, it will still easily escape.  The real problem is that for all other ships that actually could give it a fight in terms of broadside weight and crew (the 5th rates), well.. you'll never catch them regardless of build, and you can string out anything other than a requin that has a similar sailing profile, snap a mast and board them before anything larger will ever catch you:

e2d8f4f2a48bb8105dc9367f96785fd8.png

 

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14 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The short answer is that all builds being equal, the Requin will always have a point of sail where it can escape (60 degrees off the wind):

969692d0e7bffd53a76542df9c5d497a.png

Looks like we are keeping speaking about "basic" profile on a (speed-wise) neutral wood build.
Pretty obvious that eventual taggers very often can be fir fir... while rarely a lone raider is. He'll be pretty light (usually) but not SO light.

More importantly we are talking about ships without force mods.
Yes: we discovered the utter and breaking power of Elite refit (finally... 15.5 kts bellonas werent an issue... right?).
And at the moment we discuss Requin performances thinking her Pirate refitted as a bare minimum. Not to speak about Elite.
Her ability to keep top speed even with 80ish % sail damage came out being badly overcapped with Elite PIrate Refit. So you required minimum 15% sail damage to start decreasing her speed at her best angle.
After some corrections... and Rig Refit nerf, it's not anymore true.
Or far less: a requin keeps her top capped speed with few % of sail damage (again being overcapped at best angle + 20% sail force bonus and a mid-light build + some speed mod/book) then slow down as any other ship (some people kept asking me why sailing light requins + speed mods in the past: for this. Being able to be speed capped even badly damaged at structure and damaged at sails).

Indeed she can escape in any direction she can hit speed cap... because no pursuer can be faster and so catch her. Even other requins (as well known).
The old problem of speed cap.

22 minutes ago, Wraith said:

But, the Privateer and Lynx are good matches for its profile in general, but they suffer because chaining their sails actually slows them down upwind where it has much less of an effect on the 'Quin. And demasting the 'Quin with the 6 lb. guns on a privateer or lynx is well.. challenging. Therefore, if the Quin doesn't just out and out turn, board, make-dead those smaller ships, it will still easily escape.  The real problem is that for all other ships that actually could give it a fight in terms of broadside weight and crew (the 5th rates), well.. you'll never catch them regardless of build, and you can string out anything other than a requin that has a similar sailing profile, snap a mast and board them before anything larger will ever catch you

What's someone missed (speed wise) is that

1. Privateer speed and profile got nicely buffed
2. Pirate Rig change (bonus to jibs AND spankers) to make it working (fully indeed) on a Requin (a week after xebec introduction), strongly buffed Rig perfomances on Privateer and Lynx too: they are made mainly of jibs and spankers... with only 2 and 1 (respectively) squares.

At the moment my teak/teak Privateer with some speed perms + Elite Pirate Rig... runs speed capped... AT BROAD REACH. Because the +20% (now, think before nerf) sail force bonus is applied to a such majority of sails that the performance loss on the couple of small squares let the ship being far faster also downwind.

Moreover: at close haul an elite rigged Privateer is well over speed cap... and like Requin in the past... doenst suffer immediately from sail damage.
Just as a note, my PRivateer runs speed capped with 82% sails damage.

So, at the moment, Elite rigged Privateer is far faster than an Elite rigged Requin, both in open world and in combat and suffer less than her sail damage.
Coupled with a turning rate of 7+ vs almost 5: a Requin will never be able to board a Privateer with only a minimum clue (aside rigging shock him and in that minute boarding him).

Speaking about the possibility for a single Privateer to beat a Requin: we all agree. Close to zero.
1-2 Privateers (so in theory vastly inferior ships) + let's say a nice Prince: they can and well hunt and kill a Requin being still able to disengage from being faster in almost all point of sail (the privateers) or surely in some (the Prince).

 

 

 

 

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Xebec behaves great all around, but is not master of any specific.

Slopps and schooners will be better close haul, Essex and other similar frigates, including Surprise, will give them a hard time from broad to beam, and then down wind, yeah, Xebec lose to everything except the floating batteries.

Question is, why engage the Xebecs in their own fight ?

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#norearadmiralsinsafezones!

all such cowards found hiding in safe zones will be sunk by the WO trollquin fleet. if the devs cant get people to leave the safe zones perhaps the trollquin fleet can. 

p.s. we are the baddies. 

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54 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

#norearadmiralsinsafezones!

all such cowards found hiding in safe zones will be sunk by the WO trollquin fleet. if the devs cant get people to leave the safe zones perhaps the trollquin fleet can. 

p.s. we are the baddies. 

It's that reasoning over the last couple of years as to why there isn't a player base to leave the safe zone in the first place. 

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15 minutes ago, William Wade said:

It's that reasoning over the last couple of years as to why there isn't a player base to leave the safe zone in the first place. 

AFAIK two years ago there were no safe zone at all. And an higher pop.

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38 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

AFAIK two years ago there were no safe zone at all. And an higher pop.

Hahaha... YES!  And the result was ganking and seal clubbing around capital areas and players left in droves most never to return, I know I was one of them back then. 

You guys over fish capital areas of new and casual players in super ships and then wonder why the player base is so low to make the game a waste of time to log onto today. So you resort to using a ship as broken as Requin to seal club and gank what's left of the player base in the safe zones except for the few vets and their alts you might come across OW and in RVR.  

Edited by William Wade

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Few more months of this and  you'll have the player base you've always wanted, the handful of players and their egos  that dominate this forum for in game cartoon world supremacy and their multiple alts. 

Some of you have too much free time. 

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I would be okay with no safe zones.
Would also be okay with having some safe zones.
Having overpowered raiders in the game is alright too.

But it's a rock vs paper vs sizzors thing.   There has to be some way to evade the Requin if we want to do a little trade transport. 

Is it possible to use small traders like a T Lynx or T Brig with swarms of Requins ravaging capitals and free ports?

Any ideas on how to keep a small business running?

I've hear the following tips, but had less that great success implementing them:

  1. Stay aware.  Keep scanning 360 when sailing.
  2. Meta game by using:
  • Nation chat to check if the coast is clear.
  • Free Look to scan for raiders before leaving port.
  • Tow to Port when nearing destination.
  1. If you do get chased by a Requin, attack her first to gain the weather gauge in the  instance.  Position your ship downwind and then run or broad reach.
  2. Seek help with friends who will escort you  with their warships. (This is most often not successful.)

If anyone else has any helpful tips please share them.  There has to some way to carry on trading without having to fight.

 

 

Edited by Macjimm
format

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