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Kilo60

Le Requin is ruining the game for me!

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3 minutes ago, Crow said:

Not commenting on Requin. But I want to support development on the game so that I have a game to.play.

 They need money. So it's DLC's. 😁

Why should it not be paints or other stuff like this. A lot of players (me included) whould buy it to support development. In the long run this whould bring more money than frustrated players writing negative steam reviews because of OP DLC ships or broken mechanics.

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Just now, Hethwill the Harmless said:

what broken mechanics ?

 

Thanks for asking. E.g. PvP patrolzone (horrible ganking), RoE in reinforcementzones (playerbase is falling).

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1 minute ago, Sir Loorkon said:

Thanks for asking. E.g. PvP patrolzone (horrible ganking), RoE in reinforcementzones (playerbase is falling).

We could agree about Requin characteristics being difficult to counter for a random casual even if she is simply a frail and fast boarder.

Still... are you stating the broken mechanic making Requin so terrible are the reinforcement zones?

Are you proposing to get rid of them?

Note: do you consider boarding a broken feature? And mast sniping? Hull hugging? Stern camping?

 

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They need to make the requiem a 5th rate to change all the bonuses, make the patrol area battles joinable for the side with less br only and double the rewards and loot quality in the areas outside capitals and protected areas so these morons that keep getting killed in front of their capital just go somewhere else. 

Battles used to be more fun, diverse and memorable. Now it’s either Hercules hugging a ships side and sinking ships 3 rates or bigger with no problem (specially if it’s more than 1), the push into the wind and board requiem that will run away every time the other captain is not a moron and everything else with the first two types of battle being over 70% of the battles in NA

Edited by Simon Cadete

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So lets

3 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Note: do you consider boarding a broken feature?

I consider the existing bording mechanics a joke. Feels like a placeholder for something else...

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7 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

agreed. tests are proving sometimes the medecine requested by players is not the most effective.

What?

Several of us have said multiple times that patrol fights should promote even fights instead of ganking and we also warned admin that the removal of first rates as reinforcements was a mistake as the new reinforcements are crap.

 

He heard to the wrong players, thats all.

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7 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

We could agree about Requin characteristics being difficult to counter for a random casual even if she is simply a frail and fast boarder.

Still... are you stating the broken mechanic making Requin so terrible are the reinforcement zones?

 Are you proposing to get rid of them?

Note: do you consider boarding a broken feature? And mast sniping? Hull hugging? Stern camping?

No. I posted the following suggestion in another thread:

I think the Le Requin is only the refractor that concentrates three connected problems: An OP ship, the RoE in reinforcementzones and the broken PvP patrolzones. Those three factors leed to the frustration we have atm.

 I recommend the following solution:

1. Reinforcementzones/RoE: If a captain with no PvP experience is attacked by a Requin, he will get rageboarded within minutes. This is very frustrating and will cause/ has caused many new players to quit (refering to the steam reviews). But this is not the problem of the La Requin, it is a problem of RoE. Safezones should be 100% save but less profitable. I recommend to read the excellent thread Percival Merewether made on this topic. With 100% save „reinforcementzones“ there is no need for reinforcements so the problem of useless 6th rate reinforcements with the Requin is automatically solved, too.

2. Patrolzones: If reinforcementzones get real savezones there has to be a simultanious change for the PvP patrolzones. The ganking there must be stoped. Best way should be to make it impossible to join the highBR side of a patrolzone battle and maybe some other tuning in this direction. Than players who want PvP whould have a place and reason to go there.

3. Le Requin

a) RvR: The Le Requin should not be allowed at portbattles. All DLC ships should be banned from RvR.

b) OW: Le Requin has to much crew (esp. compared to the other shallowwaterships). Maybe it could be fixed by making her crew more vulnerable for grape.

The Pirat Rig Refit should not work with the Le Requin (as it was in the beginning) so that she stays great and unique upwind but very poor downwind.

She should stay a 6th rate. I think making her a 5th rate will make things even worse. She could use „marines 15“ as a 5th rate (see some posts above). I think using better marines makes her more powerfull aside that  she is loosing light ship hammocks as a 5th rate.

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4 minutes ago, do not say dlc said:

So lets

I consider the existing bording mechanics a joke. Feels like a placeholder for something else...

I would agree.

But...

Still the single most realistic (and historical being boarding the most common outcome in a 1800s naval Battle) feature in game: (never said enough) a better led (minimum player experience) better trained (marine+other books) better equipped (books like muskets or ladders) crew wins over an inferior one.

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just fix the safe zones and all balance will fall into place. #nomorerearadmirals in safe zones. the only reason the trollquin gets used is because of the safezones. 

Edited by King of Crowns
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32 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

(...)

What i meant was: the boarding mechanic in this particular game its a joke. One can build a super golden ship, put on it the most expensive upgrades this hame has to offer and loose that ship in a papper, scissors, stone text based game within 10 min.

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2 hours ago, do not say dlc said:

What i meant was: the boarding mechanic in this particular game its a joke. One can build a super golden ship, put on it the most expensive upgrades this hame has to offer and loose that ship in a papper, scissors, stone text based game within 10 min.

a) letting an enemy, especially a requin, boarding you on a super modded (moreover square rigged) ship is first and foremost your fault.

b) defending in a boarding has been super-buffed from one year ago. If still fearing a full boarder, nothing forbid equipping a couple of "life saving" (anti-)boarding books (like, 1000th time, axes+barricades)... Especially if you have the luxury too of being able to equip 2 more perms than majority of ships + an extra trim (gold ship: 5/5+trim v normal 3/5).

A full boarder is an highly specialized ship, devoting almost all possible books and sometime 1/2 perms too, to do one thing at best: boarding.

He skips plenty super stuff like repair mods stacking, penetration, mast buffs, reload.

I say the game it's even too much balanced in favour of not boarder who can almost deny boarding victory chances with only 1 perk + 2 books against a 1/2 perms+ 3/5 books dedicated to it in a boarding fitted ship.

Edited by Licinio Chiavari
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You guys miss the point entirely on why the Le Requin is bad for the game. Just read all your posts about it. 

1 It is your own fault for being boarded by a Le Requin. 

   That is classic. It is your own fault you got robbed. You should have a gun or take Martial Arts. It is your own fault you got raped. You should carry a gun or mace and take self defense classes. There are ways to avoid these things but you let it happen. How do you think that is received in the community?

2. To beat the Le Requin you just need to bet set up .......

   To sail a a 5th rate ship or smaller it is now all about setting your ship up for Le Requin defense. What about other ships? If a player is constantly set up to run up wind and defend from boarding, then They are not set up to fight other ships. They are now at a huge disadvantage fighting other ships.

3 Just run downwind! That is always the answer right? 

That works sometimes when you are not sailing a slow ship and the Le Requin is alone. You can escape. But tell me, who wants to run all the time. That is no fun.  

The game has turned into the Le Requin. It is all about one ship. It really doesn’t matter if we are right or wrong about that ship. When a game becomes all about one thing, that game will die. I know you will say “just learn to counter it”. Again it still makes the game all about the Le Requin with your Mods and knowledge. Who wants that? When the game gets hundreds of new players and they keep losing their ships and cargo to Le Requins, how long do you think most of them will stay? Long enough to learn that the game has become all about one ship?

The Le Requin has taken the “fun factor” away for a lot of people. Agree or not that the Le Requin is good or bad. If the facts show that there is a lot of negativity surrounding one ship, the obvious thing to do from a business standpoint is to get rid of that ship. Just look at the poll results. About 100 people from the Forums voted. The Majority say it is bad for the game and an overwhelming Majority say it is OP. This poll does not include the several hundred players that do not come on the forums and just complain about it on TS or in Nation chat. The poll does not include the people that have given up on the game.

Instead of defending something that people hate, why not instead suggest ways to fix it instead of just blaming the victims?

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Quote

1 It is your own fault for being boarded by a Le Requin. 

Even many dont want to hear it but truth is that we create our own hell.

Quote

To beat the Le Requin you just need to bet set up .......

Xebec is a very specialized ship if you want to beat her you have to be specialized as well. Otherwise the ship that can fight a specialized and do other stuff is op.

There are many ways to beat a requin.

  • sailing away downwind beats the requin by denying her intentions
  • engaging while setup proper to fight her can beat by sinking or boarding
Quote

Just run downwind! That is always the answer right? 

For many players that dont feel comfortable in engaging a red sail ship (means no mercy /  Give no quarter) running downwind is the easiest way to leave the fight. Furtheremore its the easiest way to extend and gives room to focus the masts. Why would you want to be close to a carro boarding ship?

1 minute ago, Old Crusty said:

...why not instead suggest ways to fix it instead of just blaming the victims?

 

@Old Crusty what you suggest looks to me that you want to create a ship that can do everything and thats op. You want a frigate that can chase kill a xebec while it still can fight any other ship. Lets be honest when would you be satisfied? What need to change what has to be different?

 

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9 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

You guys miss the point entirely on why the Le Requin is bad for the game. Just read all your posts about it. 

1 It is your own fault for being boarded by a Le Requin. 

   That is classic. It is your own fault you got robbed. You should have a gun or take Martial Arts. It is your own fault you got raped. You should carry a gun or mace and take self defense classes. There are ways to avoid these things but you let it happen. How do you think that is received in the community?

2. To beat the Le Requin you just need to bet set up .......

   To sail a a 5th rate ship or smaller it is now all about setting your ship up for Le Requin defense. What about other ships? If a player is constantly set up to run up wind and defend from boarding, then They are not set up to fight other ships. They are now at a huge disadvantage fighting other ships.

3 Just run downwind! That is always the answer right? 

That works sometimes when you are not sailing a slow ship and the Le Requin is alone. You can escape. But tell me, who wants to run all the time. That is no fun.  

Instead of defending something that people hate, why not instead suggest ways to fix it instead of just blaming the victims?

1. You think this is a joke and you offer a poor analogy. Determined defender is a luxury. Guys used to have to learn to tack above boarding speed for just this reason. You could be pulled by a Surprise in a Vic. Not putting yourself into a boarding situation is 101 basics.

2. Literally any square rigger setup is enough to evade a Requin. Perhaps a floating battery, Live Oak, White Oak port battle ship is the only thing that cannot escape downwind.

3. Before the Requin - Princes and Pickles used to harass fleets in the same manner. They can engage and retreat when needed. There is nothing new here.

All of these things you've pointed out are basics and not Requin specific. They're heightened by the existence of the DLC ship, but all of these conditions existing before the Requin reared her head.

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1 minute ago, Old Crusty said:

1 It is your own fault for being boarded by a Le Requin. 

   That is classic. It is your own fault you got robbed. You should have a gun or take Martial Arts. It is your own fault you got raped. You should carry a gun or mace and take self defense classes. There are ways to avoid these things but you let it happen. How do you think that is received in the community?

RL example. If you walk in a known very dangerous area of a city with a 50k bucks Rolex and enter in a Bar showing off a wallet with thousands bucks notes... well, is it being "only" victim? Still RL is exactly the best example. Because this a WARGAME.

Still it's true: boarding and not surviving it with a barely similar crew sized ship is as a minimum 50% losing side errors. It's a fact.
Examples ("you" in general - not personally):
- Why in the hell you werent running with the wind if not interested in trying to sink the Requin?
- Why in the hell you tried to run a Requin at beam?
- Why in the hell you didnt stop and reversed during the push at close haul?
- Why in the hell you werent boarding prepared?
- Why in the hell you didnt set a couple of life-saving book like Barricades+Axes?
- Why in the hell you did something stupid (like fire grenades) in place of simply defend-brace-disengage?

The list of possible self-killing errors can be pretty long. And I usually see at least 2+ per victim.

9 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

2. To beat the Le Requin you just need to bet set up .......

   To sail a a 5th rate ship or smaller it is now all about setting your ship up for Le Requin defense. What about other ships? If a player is constantly set up to run up wind and defend from boarding, then They are not set up to fight other ships. They are now at a huge disadvantage fighting other ships.

First defense again: position and running in the right direction (180°).
Aside 2 suggested cheap books (avoidable if you avoid the problem: being boarded), nothing should be purposely set on the ship to counter a Requin. So no disavantage against other ship.

IF you want to fight a requin... well, being an highly specialized ship, you need a specialized ship.
In game more or less any purposely fitted ship cant be catch aside by another purposely fitted ship.

Is it fine? I'm unsure about that. I'm sure that mod stacking is a plague.

13 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

3 Just run downwind! That is always the answer right? 

That works sometimes when you are not sailing a slow ship and the Le Requin is alone. You can escape. But tell me, who wants to run all the time. That is no fun. 

I saw loaded Trader Brigs saying me "byebye" more than 1 time.
<< WTF I GOTTA OP SHIP WITH BUCKS! I HAVE RIGHT TO CATCH THEM! >> is my attitude? no. Part of the hunter-prey relation.

If you're sailing a square rigged so slow that a Requin might catch you downwind... thanks God the hunter is on a Requin and so you stand a chance to run. Being intercepted by any hunting frigate... you'll die even faster.

If you dont want to run. Fight. You're on a Connie, I'm on Requin. Try. You'll sink 100 times... but probably if honestly thinking to your and your enemy performances you'll slowly get better and better. As previously said: if you want a training (so with explanations) duel (with ship loss or not), let me know.

18 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

The game has turned into the Le Requin. It is all about one ship. It really doesn’t matter if we are right or wrong about that ship. When a game becomes all about one thing, that game will die. I know you will say “just learn to counter it”. Again it still makes the game all about the Le Requin with your Mods and knowledge. Who wants that? When the game gets hundreds of new players and they keep losing their ships and cargo to Le Requins, how long do you think most of them will stay? Long enough to learn that the game has become all about one ship?

For you it's "one thing". She's simply less obvious to counter than some (not at all, all) hunter metas of the past.
Others have a bit more wider vision of game balance and dont see such a big issue. If properly handled.

Others like me, moreover, get a bit upset or passionate asking: why in the hell suddenly today we discover there're imbalances? and majority of old vets stay silent for years and ages?

Rebalance Requin? Fine.
What about Sterncamping/Hugging/Mast Sniping/...? Not to speak about mod stacking?
I'm pretty sure 90% of some vets' whining (old in game but not great skill-wise) about requin is... simply feeling unsafe to hunt untouchable as in the past around on their super modded Trincos, killing you too... when a young but smart requin PvPer can kill them with a DLC ship + 500k worth mods.

Final note: this game had and has plenty of meta ship/mod in all it's life. Today boarding Requin hunters is only another one. 

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6 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

It is not just me guys, I am just the person that will speak up.

FE353A59-C735-4087-95E4-BA7009D563A4.png

its almost 50:50 therefore one half are xebec captains that sunk a player and the other half are the sunken ones. the small difference you can explain by that negative experience get more attention than positive ones

 

op'ness is subjective. Data will show and devs will act accordingly.

Edited by z4ys
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Just now, Old Crusty said:

It is not just me guys, I am just the person that will speak up.

FE353A59-C735-4087-95E4-BA7009D563A4.png

I'm not a pro-PVPer. Not at all. I learned some tricks in the past.
I sincerely consider me a mediocre gunner, a good boarder and a better sailor (referring to manual sailing + manouver + hunt/evade techniques).
Why this "skillset"? probably due to a mix of RL experience at sea (the sailor) and cheap hunting meta I get used to in the past (the boarding). Why being a boarder? because to hunt alone you need to be fast. Missing shiny stuff to be fast you need a fir-ish ship... and with a fir-ish ship, you cant go in a gunnery duel with a similar sized enemy. So a fir-ish boarder was my solution.
Requin arrived with this my skillset already there; being her a great sailing ship and a perfect boarder. This ship made my previous medium "skillset" shining. There's plenty people around being medium/good playing NA... but very good/OP with some ships. Matter of feeling and chance.

I'm so nothing close to super-pro-PvPer there're in game.
BUT I can assure you that well more than half of the server has simply NO CLUES of this game. Really. NO CLUES. Even among old top rank veterans.

This leads to above noted poll results... coupled with "witch-hunt" felt around.

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Just now, Old Crusty said:

It is not just me guys, I am just the person that will speak up.

FE353A59-C735-4087-95E4-BA7009D563A4.png

I played this game for about 10 months in 2016. I was Spanish on the US server. I loved crafting and selling gold ships. There were many ships sailing that had the “made by El Torro Crappo” tag. I would sail my trader brig around the west end of Cuba hitting all the ports that sold gold and silver on the South side of Cuba. Then go to the Island and buy coal. When I was full I would simply to back to La Habana.

then that was changed and I had to sail back again. It took a few hours to get this done and sometimes I would lose my ship and cargo to US Frigates on the North coast of Cuba. That is also when you couldn’t just ran someone and come away undamaged. 

   My wife and I owned our own business back then. My wife wife got brain cancer and I quit playing all games for a long time since taking care of my business and my wife took all of my time. Lost the business but still have my wife. Great deal. I picked the game up the day after I could redeem all my stuff after the server merge. I am not the rookie you think I am.

simple business sense says if a product produces so much negative feelings about your business, then do something about it.

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Please test and specify the something. Else is just " empty hold space".

What many testers did was - test the ship - damages, speeds, combos, etc - thickness, hp, masts, rigging, crew. Others tested the speeds and the refits effects.

All properly reported.

Get what I mean ? Test and report properly what is not correct.

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