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Patch 26. Spanish Frigate Diana, BR rebalance - Diana is a timed reward.

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38 minutes ago, admin said:

Barricades will turn into a great defensive upgrade. They will be able to counter most 4/5 boarding setups. 

What we need is musket fire from decks so a small ship cant do so much damage to line ships from stern rakes or sailing in close paralel, in front or behind. 

Many captains dont want to engage in a boarding because other ships will come closer and sink him.

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7 hours ago, Percival Merewether said:

Actually @Grundgemunkey made a mistake in his post, the description he posted is from the August 2012 cruise. She was in a dry dock  from 2015 to 2017. She has only sailed twice in the past century under her own power; once in 1997 and once in 2012.

She is towed out to sea every year and turned around so that the weathering happens evenly on both sides of the ship. But this does not happen under her own power.

@Sir Malachy Karrde You have NEVER served on the Constitution, drop the conversation now and end whatever it is you're trying to achieve. You will not convince any of us...

EDIT: USS Constitution's state during her alleged 2016 cruise:

USS_Constitution_in_drydock_in_Boston,_2

 

7 hours ago, Percival Merewether said:

Actually @Grundgemunkey made a mistake in his post, the description he posted is from the August 2012 cruise. She was in a dry dock  from 2015 to 2017. She has only sailed twice in the past century under her own power; once in 1997 and once in 2012.

She is towed out to sea every year and turned around so that the weathering happens evenly on both sides of the ship. But this does not happen under her own power.

@Sir Malachy Karrde You have NEVER served on the Constitution, drop the conversation now and end whatever it is you're trying to achieve. You will not convince any of us...

EDIT: USS Constitution's state during her alleged 2016 cruise:

USS_Constitution_in_drydock_in_Boston,_2

You sir are mistaken. Additionally, the US navy doesn't always publicize when they take a ship out to sea, even the famous ones. You can believe what you wish, I've nothing to prove to a bunch of forum idiots who haven't served. There are videos of half a dozen of her cruises on YouTube. One of them even has me in it :) I'm still in the Navy reserves and hold the rank of Commander to this day. I'll have my 25 years in (8 active duty, 17 reserves) next fall and intend to retire then. 

For the guy who said something about me being disrespectful toward the British navy, I did not mean to come off that way. I was merely pointing out that during the 1800s, the admiralty resisted change and were slow on the uptake when it came to new innovations. I personally have quite a lot of respect for the Royal Navy, both when it was the most powerful navy afloat to modern times. One of my uncles served as a heleicopter pilot for the RN actually. 

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29 minutes ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

You sir are mistaken. Additionally, the US navy doesn't always publicize when they take a ship out to sea, even the famous ones. You can believe what you wish, I've nothing to prove to a bunch of forum idiots who haven't served. There are videos of half a dozen of her cruises on YouTube. One of them even has me in it :) I'm still in the Navy reserves and hold the rank of Commander to this day. I'll have my 25 years in (8 active duty, 17 reserves) next fall and intend to retire then. 

For the guy who said something about me being disrespectful toward the British navy, I did not mean to come off that way. I was merely pointing out that during the 1800s, the admiralty resisted change and were slow on the uptake when it came to new innovations. I personally have quite a lot of respect for the Royal Navy, both when it was the most powerful navy afloat to modern times. One of my uncles served as a heleicopter pilot for the RN actually. 

I think there would be a fair amount of publicity if she went to sea during the middle of her most recent restoration work as she would have been at the bottom of Boston harbour. They stripped away the planking and caulking to the point she was no longer watertight to conduct major structural work to stop her collapsing in on herself under her own weight. It was a complex and intricate repair job that required her to be in dry dock for a long period of time so as to be done properly, famously making HMS Trincomalee the oldest floating warship in the world for the entirety of the 2 year period the repairs took place over before her recent refloating last year. By all means share these youtube videos though.

Here is an article from the navy times that briefly discusses her refloat announcement
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2017/04/05/uss-constitution-to-return-to-water-after-latest-restoration/
Here is the museum blog which contains some detailed step by step information of her restoration (you do have to click "+ load more" a few of times though to get the whole 2015-17 period)
https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/blog/

You mean the British admiralty? The same period where they appointed people like Robert Seppings to important positions and adopted some of the most significant changes and adaptions to ship design of the entire age of sail era, The Napoleonic era spurring forward one of the most innovative periods of naval development and pathed the way to the end of the age of sail in its entirety as Britain invested in its wooden walls.

 

Edited by Fluffy Fishy
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29 minutes ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

 

You sir are mistaken. Additionally, the US navy doesn't always publicize when they take a ship out to sea, even the famous ones. You can believe what you wish, I've nothing to prove to a bunch of forum idiots who haven't served. There are videos of half a dozen of her cruises on YouTube. One of them even has me in it :) I'm still in the Navy reserves and hold the rank of Commander to this day. I'll have my 25 years in (8 active duty, 17 reserves) next fall and intend to retire then. 

For the guy who said something about me being disrespectful toward the British navy, I did not mean to come off that way. I was merely pointing out that during the 1800s, the admiralty resisted change and were slow on the uptake when it came to new innovations. I personally have quite a lot of respect for the Royal Navy, both when it was the most powerful navy afloat to modern times. One of my uncles served as a heleicopter pilot for the RN actually. 

Alright, let's see those videos then.

You're blowing smoke up people's asses. Connie only leaves the docks for the turnaround cruises, once a year. She's towed out and back. When she actually sails under her own power it's a HUGE DEAL and they only put up very limited canvas for a very short time.

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1 hour ago, z4ys said:

32-gun British frigate HMS Ambuscade and the French 24-gun corvette Bayonnaise

...

As the frigate sailed on the port side of the corvette on a parallel course, overtaking her, Bayonnaise backed sail and turned hard to port, ramming Ambuscade. The bowsprit of Bayonnaise cut down Ambuscade 's mizzen, wounding part of the crew standing on the poop deck, and entangling the two ships.

...

1280px-Bayonnaise_vs_Embuscade_mg_9452.j

Ambuscade_vs_Bayonnaise-Ozanne-1.jpg

Makes my point.  Bayonnoise backed sails, turned and rammed...coming to a complete stop.  THEN boarded.  Both ships were severely damaged aloft.  Had anybody else come along, they would have been easy meat.

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40 minutes ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

You sir are mistaken. Additionally, the US navy doesn't always publicize when they take a ship out to sea, even the famous ones. You can believe what you wish, I've nothing to prove to a bunch of forum idiots who haven't served. There are videos of half a dozen of her cruises on YouTube. One of them even has me in it :) I'm still in the Navy reserves and hold the rank of Commander to this day. I'll have my 25 years in (8 active duty, 17 reserves) next fall and intend to retire then. 

You've made a mistake... Move on and never speak of it again.

And don't' call me or anyone else an idiot again.

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7 hours ago, admin said:

Hotfix will be applied on wednesday and will include

  • Mark rewards, XP, gold rewards changes to prepare for the new economy patch
  • Hammocks and extra crew bonuses will be nerfed (especially for 6th 7th rates)
    • Current max potential bonus of 55% is too huge to wait for port UI
  • Boarding changes (Experimental+we never tested it)
    • Boarding speed limit will increase
      • This means that if you are on a parallel course and your speed difference is low you can start pulling the target and board.
      • This will have significant impact on the flow of close range battles and will reduce incentive to 
        • stern camp using bow guns (you will get boarded)
        • hug the bigger target on a parallel course (you will get boarded)
        • it will increase importance of DD thus we need to update DD for this experiment.
  • Determined defender nerf (Experimental)
    • We don't want players to calculate percentages in their head - thus DD crew bonus will be lowered to 0%. You should be able to clearly see if you can board the target (in case it has DD) immediately by just looking at enemy crew.

You remember when russian part of the forum called NA "Mast Action". This will change the name to "boarding Action". Whats more you indeed wont need to worry about Le Requin anymore. In fact you wont have to worry about anything smaller than line ships. Everybody will be sailing them safely. Do you really want that? This change comming along with your mods balancing update will push peaple again only in one true mods build. Boarding. Boring and combat will become boring too. More problems than it solves.

How about really stop tweaking combat mechanic ( which is the best part of NA already) and focus tottaly on different neglected aspects of the game? Its like you guys never learn on your own mistakes.

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A question, why boarding does automatically make your ships go to 0 knots?

The problem of boarding is that the ship go full stop, what if the ships keep sailing at a certain low speed?

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4 hours ago, admin said:

it is somewhat realistic. Both victory and redoutable and all other ships who were on boarding during Trafalgar did not lay any substantial fire at other passing targets

Not from my reading:

Victory after firing on Bucentaure fell in with Redoubtable, which exchanged broadsides on their mutually engaged sides (with buckets of water thrown through the British gun ports to prevent/reduce the risk of fires from the close proximity shooting...

Reboubtable cleared the Victory's weather deck with musketry and over 200 grenades (during which part of the action Nelson was shot and mortally injured. Numerous small fires were started but rapidly extinguished.

Meanwhile although her weather deck was almost deserted her lower decks kept up a fire on both Bucentaure and Santissima Trinidad from the port battery.

The actual boarding of Victory required the cutting down of one of Redoubtable's yards to form a bridge, and the Victory's marines were rallied to the weather decks to counter the boarders.

"At 1:30 the Redoubtable having struck her colours, we ceased firing our Starboard guns but continued engaged with the Santissima Trinidad and some of the Enemy's Ships on the Larboard side"

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45 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Makes my point.  Bayonnoise backed sails, turned and rammed...coming to a complete stop.  THEN boarded.  Both ships were severely damaged aloft.  Had anybody else come along, they would have been easy meat.

On top other than in-game I doubt that naval engagements were fought at full ship speed.

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8 minutes ago, z4ys said:

On top other than in-game I doubt that naval engagements were fought at full ship speed.

Very true.  

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I'm excited to test out the new changes. My predictions:

4th-3rd rates will reign supreme in OW. Maybe seeing more boarding Pavels 

Requin will still be rage boarding bigger ships. Due to its extreme acceleration/declaration it will decide when it wants to get boarded. 

6th rate players will cry loudly, move to the shallows for PvP and get dominated by Hercules. 

Barricades will be a must-have book for the OW hunter

 

Lets see how this goes 😀

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6 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

I'm excited to test out the new changes. My predictions:

4th-3rd rates will reign supreme in OW. Maybe seeing more boarding Pavels 

Requin will still be rage boarding bigger ships. Due to its extreme acceleration/declaration it will decide when it wants to get boarded. 

6th rate players will cry loudly, move to the shallows for PvP and get dominated by Hercules. 

Barricades will be a must-have book for the OW hunter

 

Lets see how this goes 😀

This and a lot more speed aggies, because of that big crew compliment.

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2 minutes ago, Rabman said:

This and a lot more speed aggies, because of that big crew compliment.

im already brainstorming a counter ship 😄

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I would rather see the binary nature of boarding addressed than have triggering boarding easier. Going from sailing along next to each other to sails dropped full stop instantly isn't a realistic solution.

The crew don't wait till both ships are completely lashed together to start fighting. Perhaps have ships in close proximity to each other up a small window to the right of the screen that allows some boarding commands while the two ships are still manouvering and sailing. For instance musket fire and fire deck guns (swivels) can be used any time the enemy is near, if crew are in boarding and enough prep is available. Grenades is possible at extremely close range, and attack requires the two to be lashed together. 

Some boarding commands can be tweaked, for instance "musket volley" can consume prep and damage crew constantly while active. Same with grenades, while "fire deck guns" would depend on the actual deck gun reload state.

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17 minutes ago, Capt Aerobane said:

I would rather see the binary nature of boarding addressed than have triggering boarding easier. Going from sailing along next to each other to sails dropped full stop instantly isn't a realistic solution.

The crew don't wait till both ships are completely lashed together to start fighting. Perhaps have ships in close proximity to each other up a small window to the right of the screen that allows some boarding commands while the two ships are still manouvering and sailing. For instance musket fire and fire deck guns (swivels) can be used any time the enemy is near, if crew are in boarding and enough prep is available. Grenades is possible at extremely close range, and attack requires the two to be lashed together. 

Some boarding commands can be tweaked, for instance "musket volley" can consume prep and damage crew constantly while active. Same with grenades, while "fire deck guns" would depend on the actual deck gun reload state.

Nice ideas

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On 9/16/2018 at 1:30 AM, William Death said:

Regarding Diana, its a beautiful model, and I'm enjoying sailing it. Seems fairly balanced.

9B5D5B8A858C57594A643566AB6BCC4DD22E38F1

9A07757E66FB4A19571051038038EDE9445C6701

There were some really pretty sunsets this evening :) 

 

I do have one question though, what are these objects below the gunports? Amidships, there are some square holes that appear to be made of metal. I think they'd be too narrow to work for sweeps? And what about the wood blocks with the horseshoe-shaped metal pieces on them? Are those for sweeps? Or are they loopholes for muskets? I've never heard of that before but then I've never researched it either. 

Anyone who knows, I have a curious cat who would also like you to share! :D

813FDAB197598939945EFD162BE199B40C76FB5E

Am just reposting this because...DAMN!! THOSE SUNSETS (AND SUNRISES)!

This is one of the many things that make this game so immerssive!!

I actually have a couple of good screenshots on my phone's and computer as a backdrop! I never knew it would possible to actually sail inside of oil painting! True art! 

***Rant over***

Also William death, I know what those are on the Diana.....bring your ship to la tortue and I'll show you. Oh but I can show you if you have cannons or carros (ship must be empty) 😀😜

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3 hours ago, z4ys said:

As the frigate sailed on the port side of the corvette on a parallel course, overtaking her, Bayonnaise backed sail and turned hard to port, ramming Ambuscade. The bowsprit of Bayonnaise cut down Ambuscade 's mizzen, wounding part of the crew standing on the poop deck, and entangling the two ships.

1280px-Bayonnaise_vs_Embuscade_mg_9452.j

2 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Makes my point.  Bayonnoise backed sails, turned and rammed...coming to a complete stop.  THEN boarded.  Both ships were severely damaged aloft.  Had anybody else come along, they would have been easy meat.

Neither ship would be in any condition to sail for hours afterward... see the very poor state of the rigging on both ships.  Also, few of the sails of either ship would be drawing during the boarding action and none of them with much significance at all, probably completely unmanned save the fighters in the tops.

The ships would drift together downwind

"Bayonnaise had lost almost all of her rigging, was leaking and had her rudder damaged. Ambuscade had lost her mizzen mast and sustained damage from explosions on board, but was otherwise intact and sea worthy. Ambuscade towed Bayonnaise to Pertuis d'Antioche and Rochefort. They arrived the next day."

Also... I have a copy of that beautiful painting :)

Edited by Sir John
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4 hours ago, DeRuyter said:

 

Kinda like  @William Death point about hull speed - it is a theoretical maximum, you rarely get conditions to even get close to it. Most ships are sailing faster than the constant in game wind should allow anyway. 

We really need more incentives for folks to actually fight at battle sails like they did in RL.  That is why I keep suggestion a fix to the repairs.  You can't do any repairs unless your going battle sails or slower.  As soon as you kick it into full sails it stops repairs.   This would make folks choose wisely when to repair and have to disengage to do them instead of going full sails in a running chase while constantly repairing sails every 12 mins so you can't slow them down.

4 hours ago, Intrepido said:

I had to ask because the old and annoying sir texas sir was no longer asking the same over and over.

RL been really busy for me this past month with the passing of my mom and helping dad get every thing worked out, but hay I been trying to get my two cents still in there when I can.  Some one got to try to get paints back after all.....lol

3 hours ago, Intrepido said:

What we need is musket fire from decks so a small ship cant do so much damage to line ships from stern rakes or sailing in close paralel, in front or behind. 

Many captains dont want to engage in a boarding because other ships will come closer and sink him.

I still want to test the musket thing out with say a range of 50m or something too.

That and we should be able to fire our guns while in boarding to give even more risk of a small ship and big ship in boarding.

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Crowd control NA style, who the hell needs this?

@admin you laid out a plan, why do you bite yourself in the foot by deviating from it? Finish what you decided you were going to finish instead of adding something that will take you months to balance/get right again.

Edited by Le Raf Boom
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I will answer to this patch announcement as it would be a player driven suggestion. I support suggestions that add flavor to the meal. Currently the naval battles we have are the curry we all love, but certainly everybody gets not enough battles. 

This announcement favors a rageboarding mechanic as it would be more historical than what we have. Sadly history is not made to provide us fun nowadays. So it is here too. Battles will become monotonic. 

Therefor I disagree with it. Fun before historical correctness. 

This game has many flaws that need proper fixing. The battle instances are non of them. 

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Honestly.

Let's wait some days worth of battle post hotfix.

- Let's see the speed difference would be needed to start the boarding (too high? too low?)

- let's see boarding pull timing (same, longer, shorter?)

- let's see if any speed limit to boarding pull start (well reasonable IMO)

- let's see the reworked DD + new barricade (I hope not super buffed: it already makes another same sized ship simply impossible to beat in boarding. Even more buffed it'll risk to keep the small sterncampers able to withstanding a big fat ship boarding with limited risks)

- let's look too new rewards too.

Then, only then, we'll be able to add any meaningful suggestion/feedback.

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6 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

 

RL been really busy for me this past month with the passing of my mom

:( I extend my deepest sympathies to you and your family. May the soul of your mother be at peace.

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14 hours ago, admin said:

The situation you provide is probably not possible in reality given modestly competent captains in black ships

1) black ships could fight and not run.
2) black ships could actually focus fire and remove most sails from the red one.
3) black ships could focus fire and just sink the  red ship (Enough damage to sails and structure will slow it down a lot).

The situation you draw is possible only if black ships sail without shooting, turning or coordinating, because otherwise i do not see a situation where a red ship can get close to a black one sailing in such tight formation.

frigates would be more useful in lineship fights

1 black ships are not in the position to decide if they fight. 

2 attacking sails of red upwind ships has no real effect against good captains. With multiple reps the windward ship cannot loose the wind unless he is stupid. The leeward ship will run out of chain before he can take wind. 

3 I don't think I need to point out why it is IMPOSSIBLE for the black ships to sink the windward red ships.

The one great thing in this game is how well and realistic you can use wind. I am very surprised by your statement there since in my oppinion you are 100% wrong in everything you said. 

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I'll try explain fast on 3. If blank fleet damages 1 red the red always has the option to turn into wind and other reds will drive blacks downwind. Extremely rare someone sinks in that situation. 

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