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Patch 26. Spanish Frigate Diana, BR rebalance - Diana is a timed reward.

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41 minutes ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

PS: you try to say the Connie only was an 11 to 12 knot ship, when the US navy website lists her at 13 plus, I've sailed on her when she was pulling 13.2 in a light breeze, and then in a post to someone else, state a log entry someone else found of her doing 15 knots. Seems you are just butt hurt because an American super frigate was better than anything the Brits came up with to combat her. 

The HMS Bellona was capable of hitting 13kts too, some 74's went even faster than that - maybe we should take a look at all ship speeds and see how well the Connie will do. :)

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In the end... This should be a playable Age of sail WarGame.

Realism argument cant be used only when useful... On the contrary again, maximum close haul for all square sails should be 80° at best and tack into the wind should require like 5+ minutes.

What matter is balancing the game using history/realism as inspiration: so a schooner has to go close haul far better than a Frigate.

And therefore, Constitution being underused in PVP hunting is a fact. The reason is the too low base speed.

So she needs a buff... But not making her too fast to the point of cancelling the use of other frigates. Plain simple.

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Just now, Percival Merewether said:

The HMS Bellona was capable of hitting 13kts too, some 74's went even faster than that - maybe we should take a look at all ship speeds and see how well the Connie will do. :)

theoretical speed of conni is 18,5kn

theoretical speed of bellona is 16,4kn

theoretical speed of victory is 18,7kn

v [kn] = 1,34 * (waterline length[ft])^(1/2)

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, z4ys said:

theoretical speed of conni is 18,5kn

theoretical speed of bellona is 16,4kn

theoretical speed of victory is 18,7kn

v [kn] = 1,34 * (waterline length[ft])^(1/2)

 

 

 

 

1,34 value is for the modern ships, older ships had different factor. This is also not "speed" but theoretical "hull speed" and there are many ways to extend it. 

Edited by Banished Privateer
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Malachi vs Malachy,

A bunch of malarkey if you ask me.

Only one ship rules the sea,

And the pickle it do be!

Edited by Capt Aerobane
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1 hour ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

It's obvious you don't have a clue. Its also obvious that you are a Brit fan boy. And thanks for finding the dates for the razee ships for me. I never said the Brits were original in their response to the US heavy frigates and unfortunately, we never got a chance to see if their response would work, as the war ended before any further engagements.  So you keep reading your revisionist EU drivel, I'll keep reading history. And you need to re read Toll's book again, just read for content this time. You are on my ignore list now with all the other ignoramuses.

I love to read these forums and watch people who think they know something spout their ignorance. Especially people who have never sailed anything more than pixels attempt to portray themselves as sailors. 

I actually served on the crew of the Constitution for six months during my navy days, and was an intelligence officer for six years after that.  I also have a Masters of Military History and wrote my final paper on the naval war of 1812. On top of that, I have a doctorate of Intelligence Studies, which is not relevant to this discussion. 

PS: you try to say the Connie only was an 11 to 12 knot ship, when the US navy website lists her at 13 plus, I've sailed on her when she was pulling 13.2 in a light breeze, and then in a post to someone else, state a log entry someone else found of her doing 15 knots. Seems you are just butt hurt because an American super frigate was better than anything the Brits came up with to combat her. 

I doubt you ever served in any Navy  and certainly not as an officer

Having served in the Royal Navy for 12 years . The British and American armed forces certainly show each other more respect than your showing on this thread

ps

The last time the constitution sailed under her own power was 1997 ,,, first  time in 100 years ,,

" The ship got underway at 9:57 a.m. with tugs attached to her sides and 285 people on board, including special guests, such as the 58th, 59th, 62nd and 65th former commanding officers of Constitution; Rear Adm. Richard Breckenridge, Commander, Submarine Group Two; Rear Adm. Ted Branch, Commander, Naval Air Forces Atlantic; Vice Adm. William French, Commander, Navy Installations Command; retired Navy Capt. Thomas Hudner Jr., Medal of Honor recipient; and Dr. Phil Budden, Britain's Consul General to New England.

At 10:27 a.m., Budden and Bonner tossed a wreath into the ocean to honor and remember Constitution's battle with the HMS Guerriere.

When the ship arrived at President Roads, a body of water of Boston Harbor, the crew then set three sails from Constitution's main, mizzen and fore masts, and at 12:25 p.m., she detached from her tugs and sailed west under her own power for 17 minutes. She sailed at a maximum speed of 3.1 knots, at an average of two knots, and at a distance of 1,100 yards.

"As the ship's sail master, I felt a combination of pride and relief that the hundreds of man hours of training and planning over the past year all came together, and we were able to accomplish this goal," said Boatswain's Mate 1st Class (SW) Conrad Hunt. "I'm really proud that I can say I was a part of this historic occasion."

After tugs reattached to Constitution's sides, the ship headed to Fort Independence on Castle Island, where thousands of spectators waited to watch Constitution fire a 21-gun salute toward the fort at 1:14 p.m. Fort Independence is a state park that served as a defense post for Boston Harbor at one time.

Finally, the ship returned to her pier at 2:05 p.m. and everyone departed once the brow was safely set and the ship was clean. Constitution re-opened to the public for tours of the ship's history at 4 p.m. "

think your full of something

 

 

Edited by Grundgemunkey
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22 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

I doubt you ever served in any Navy  and certainly not as an officer

Having served in the Royal Navy for 12 years . The British and American armed forces certainly show each other more respect than your showing on this thread

ps

The last time the constitution sailed under her own power was 1997 ,,, first  time in 100 years ,,

" The ship got underway at 9:57 a.m. with tugs attached to her sides and 285 people on board, including special guests, such as the 58th, 59th, 62nd and 65th former commanding officers of Constitution; Rear Adm. Richard Breckenridge, Commander, Submarine Group Two; Rear Adm. Ted Branch, Commander, Naval Air Forces Atlantic; Vice Adm. William French, Commander, Navy Installations Command; retired Navy Capt. Thomas Hudner Jr., Medal of Honor recipient; and Dr. Phil Budden, Britain's Consul General to New England.

At 10:27 a.m., Budden and Bonner tossed a wreath into the ocean to honor and remember Constitution's battle with the HMS Guerriere.

When the ship arrived at President Roads, a body of water of Boston Harbor, the crew then set three sails from Constitution's main, mizzen and fore masts, and at 12:25 p.m., she detached from her tugs and sailed west under her own power for 17 minutes. She sailed at a maximum speed of 3.1 knots, at an average of two knots, and at a distance of 1,100 yards.

"As the ship's sail master, I felt a combination of pride and relief that the hundreds of man hours of training and planning over the past year all came together, and we were able to accomplish this goal," said Boatswain's Mate 1st Class (SW) Conrad Hunt. "I'm really proud that I can say I was a part of this historic occasion."

After tugs reattached to Constitution's sides, the ship headed to Fort Independence on Castle Island, where thousands of spectators waited to watch Constitution fire a 21-gun salute toward the fort at 1:14 p.m. Fort Independence is a state park that served as a defense post for Boston Harbor at one time.

Finally, the ship returned to her pier at 2:05 p.m. and everyone departed once the brow was safely set and the ship was clean. Constitution re-opened to the public for tours of the ship's history at 4 p.m. "

think your full of something

 

 

That was the first time she set sail after her refit. She's been under sail many times since, 2012, 2013, and 2016 being some of the most recent. She's also been taken out by cadet classes a few times as well. There are videos of some of the cruises she's made on YouTube. She usually sails around August 19th. Although has sailed on other dates as well.

Edited by Sir Malachy Karrde

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6 minutes ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

That was the first time she set sail after her refit. She's been under sail many times since, 2012, 2013, and 2016 being some of the most recent. She's also been taken out by cadet classes a few times as well. There are videos of some of the cruises she's made on YouTube. She usually sails around August 19th. 

i got my info from

https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2017/12/21/sail-big-sh

also says she was in dry dock from 2015/17 ... yet you say she was sailing in 2016 ??

 

Edited by Grundgemunkey
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22 minutes ago, Sir Malachy Karrde said:

That was the first time she set sail after her refit. She's been under sail many times since, 2012, 2013, and 2016 being some of the most recent. She's also been taken out by cadet classes a few times as well. There are videos of some of the cruises she's made on YouTube. She usually sails around August 19th. 

Actually @Grundgemunkey made a mistake in his post, the description he posted is from the August 2012 cruise. She was in a dry dock  from 2015 to 2017. She has only sailed twice in the past century under her own power; once in 1997 and once in 2012.

She is towed out to sea every year and turned around so that the weathering happens evenly on both sides of the ship. But this does not happen under her own power.

@Sir Malachy Karrde You have NEVER served on the Constitution, drop the conversation now and end whatever it is you're trying to achieve. You will not convince any of us...

EDIT: USS Constitution's state during her alleged 2016 cruise:

USS_Constitution_in_drydock_in_Boston,_2

Edited by Percival Merewether
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Everyone ignores that the wind speed has a drastic effect on a ships recorded speed historically. We dont have variable wind in NA. In ideal conditions with a strong wind the connie may have possibly at some point touched 13knts.

Somedays our ships would do battle at 3nts if we had varying wind speeds.

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Hotfix will be applied on wednesday and will include

  • Mark rewards, XP, gold rewards changes to prepare for the new economy patch
  • Hammocks and extra crew bonuses will be nerfed (especially for 6th 7th rates)
    • Current max potential bonus of 55% is too huge to wait for port UI
  • Boarding changes (Experimental+we never tested it)
    • Boarding speed limit will increase
      • This means that if you are on a parallel course and your speed difference is low you can start pulling the target and board.
      • This will have significant impact on the flow of close range battles and will reduce incentive to 
        • stern camp using bow guns (you will get boarded)
        • hug the bigger target on a parallel course (you will get boarded)
        • it will increase importance of DD thus we need to update DD for this experiment.
  • Determined defender nerf (Experimental)
    • We don't want players to calculate percentages in their head - thus DD crew bonus will be lowered to 0%. You should be able to clearly see if you can board the target (in case it has DD) immediately by just looking at enemy crew.
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4 minutes ago, admin said:

 

  • Boarding speed limit will increase
    • This means that if you are on a parallel course and your speed difference is low you can start pulling the target and board.

Hey, do u have a number for us?

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5 minutes ago, admin said:

Boarding speed limit will increase

  • This means that if you are on a parallel course and your speed difference is low you can start pulling the target and board.
  • This will have significant impact on the flow of close range battles and will reduce incentive to 
    • stern camp using bow guns (you will get boarded)
    • hug the bigger target on a parallel course (you will get boarded)
    • it will increase importance of DD thus we need to update DD for this experiment.

 

How does AI behave in these scenarios? Will they board the player right away when he is right besides them?

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8 minutes ago, admin said:
  • Boarding changes (Experimental+we never tested it)
    • Boarding speed limit will increase
      • This means that if you are on a parallel course and your speed difference is low you can start pulling the target and board.

Will AI do it as well? (I hope so)

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10 minutes ago, admin said:

This means that if you are on a parallel course and your speed difference is low you can start pulling the target and board.

so two frigates next to each other, one sailing 10 knots, the other 9.8, can board each other because the difference is only .2 knots? Or is there still a max. speed at which boarding is possible (formerly 3.5 knots)?

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Just now, Liq said:

so two frigates next to each other, one sailing 10 knots, the other 9.8, can board each other because the difference is only .2 knots? Or is there still a max. speed at which boarding is possible (formerly 3.5 knots)?

I would say throw the rope and get your muskets and pikes rdy^^

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Will the ships drop sails or keep sailing? because holding someone in place will be a big thing then.

 

Board -> Disengange

 

As a upwind fleet it's very easy to finish off people with that. No need to win the boarding

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6 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I would say throw the rope and get your muskets and pikes rdy^^

So no need for pushing into the wind anymore, just go side by side and board at 10 knots if the speed difference isn't all too great?

I thought the requin boarding plague couldn't get worse. lol

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3 minutes ago, Liq said:

So no need for pushing into the wind anymore, just go side by side and board at 10 knots if the speed difference isn't all too great?

I thought the requin boarding plague couldn't get worse. lol

and victory will be worst 1st rate not because of leaks because of boarding as well. but i dont understand dd changes so far.

What it solves is belle poules/hercs  hugging 1st rates/ sols

Edited by z4ys
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5 minutes ago, Liq said:

I thought the requin boarding plague couldn't get worse. lol

le requin cant keep up with anything at 180.

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Just now, z4ys said:

and victory will be worst 1st rate not because of leaks because of boarding as well. but dont undersstand dd changes so far.

DD changes are easy to understand

You 621 Crew

Enemy 622 Crew

 

He can board you.

You shoot a broadside

You 621 Crew

Enemy 618 Crew

 

You can board the enemy. He can't board you.

 

The changes will:

- Make Fir Fir Boarding ships even stronger now because you don't need to push someone into the wind anymore

- It makes the upwind position a even stronger position. Why? Because you only need to board and disengage to kill someone. (Downwindfleet will sail away leaving 1 guy to die). Upwind fleet = rinse and repeat.

 

 

In my oppinion what also should be changed in this case is:

- When in boarding both ships should keep on sailing the speed the went when boarding started. (who has time for rigging anyway? Or you should even be able to manually sail while boarding giving you the ability to disengage by that)

- Lower morale and Crewdamage in boarding so it takes longer

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3 minutes ago, admin said:

le requin cant keep up with anything at 180.

What about the idea that you can still sail while in boarding giving you the chance to disengage by normal sailing and not letting you die without the chance to do anything because you were downwind against a upwind fleet

edit: why not enable everything?

Crew will go also into boarding but you also can shoot cannons and sail.

 

That would make boarding pretty intense

Edited by rediii
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28 minutes ago, admin said:

Hotfix will be applied on wednesday and will include

  • Mark rewards, XP, gold rewards changes to prepare for the new economy patch
  • Hammocks and extra crew bonuses will be nerfed (especially for 6th 7th rates)
    • Current max potential bonus of 55% is too huge to wait for port UI
  • Boarding changes (Experimental+we never tested it)
    • Boarding speed limit will increase
      • This means that if you are on a parallel course and your speed difference is low you can start pulling the target and board.
      • This will have significant impact on the flow of close range battles and will reduce incentive to 
        • stern camp using bow guns (you will get boarded)
        • hug the bigger target on a parallel course (you will get boarded)
        • it will increase importance of DD thus we need to update DD for this experiment.
  • Determined defender nerf (Experimental)
    • We don't want players to calculate percentages in their head - thus DD crew bonus will be lowered to 0%. You should be able to clearly see if you can board the target (in case it has DD) immediately by just looking at enemy crew.

Ho ho! I like this "boarding speed increase" business! As a frigate man (albeit a PvE peasant), taking prizes is where it's at. Would love an actual number though.

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3 minutes ago, rediii said:

What about the idea that you can still sail while in boarding giving you the chance to disengage by normal sailing?

not gonna work once ships are connected by ropes only way to dissangage is to cut the ropes or one drops anchor

Edited by Lovec1990

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28 minutes ago, admin said:

Hotfix will be applied on wednesday and will include

New stuff, good stuff.

28 minutes ago, admin said:
  • Mark rewards, XP, gold rewards changes to prepare for the new economy patch

👍

29 minutes ago, admin said:
  • Hammocks and extra crew bonuses will be nerfed (especially for 6th 7th rates)
    • Current max potential bonus of 55% is too huge to wait for port UI

Definately fine. Any idea the new percentages? (Light Hammocks to 10? 5? Hammocks book?)

30 minutes ago, admin said:

 

  • Boarding speed limit will increase
    • This means that if you are on a parallel course and your speed difference is low you can start pulling the target and board.
    • This will have significant impact on the flow of close range battles and will reduce incentive to 
      • stern camp using bow guns (you will get boarded)
      • hug the bigger target on a parallel course (you will get boarded)
      • it will increase importance of DD thus we need to update DD for this experiment

Very good and potentially far more real (it's the speed difference, not nominal speed to make possible the pull).

Any idea about max speed differential needed and or if any max speed possible?

AND VERY GOOD to hit the huggers/sterncampers.

31 minutes ago, admin said:
  • Determined defender nerf (Experimental)
    • We don't want players to calculate percentages in their head - thus DD crew bonus will be lowered to 0%. You should be able to clearly see if you can board the target (in case it has DD) immediately by just looking at enemy crew.

Sorry: not understanding.

Can you confirm needing only 1 man more than enemy (or same crew number)? ATM only interpretation I can guess.

 

Thank you in advance.

 

 

 

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