PVP rewards for ship return to port

[Bluetooth]

I would like to suggest 1.5 x PVP reward for returning ships to port and selling them to admiralty.

This would be realistic and would increase PVP OW opertuninty.

 

[Hethwill]

And the cannons ? You can't loot those when you sink the ship.

And the cargo ? part of it is lost when the ship is scuttled.

[Old Crusty]

This of course would increase camping outside of Nations capitals.

[Hethwill]

5 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

This of course would increase camping outside of Nations capitals.

Having to sail a captured ship back to own port to exchange for marks ?

I mean, say a raider sails from Aves to Fort Royal, classic. Captures a ship. Must sail it back, in fleet ( must have fleet perk ), to a port where there's a Admiralty of his own nation so he can give it to the Admiralty.

Or did i understand wrong ?

[Old Crusty]

French, Prussian, Pirates sail from there own ports to camp CT all the time.

   If they had a captured ship in tow it would make them more vulnerable to revenge fleets but that is a risk/reward decision 

[Cmdr RideZ]

I like this idea.

Fleet perk will be more useful, very good.

Encouraging people to defend their noobs at their capital/national port. Not just sailing to enemy capital to sink noobs.

Returning enemy ship to capital should be worth even more. Could be done even so that from reinforcement zone, defender gets automatically increased PvP mark reward.

There is a change that veteran PvP players actually start to fight each other to get more PvP marks. Very tiny change but it is there.

[Tiedemann]

1 hour ago, Crow said:

I would like to suggest 1.5 x PVP reward for returning ships to port and selling them to admiralty.

This would be realistic and would increase PVP OW opertuninty.

 

Oh, I like it a lot!  

Maybe there could be a way the admiralty could resell the ships it receives, so it brings content to the players in the nation also? I'm all about recycling and saving the planet these days.. But this would also benefit the nation. The ship with upgrades could pop up for sale in the capital at an affordable price, by the admiralty. For it not to be exploited it could have a 7 days delay from admiralty receives the ship, until it is ready to be resold in the capital, and when contract is put up for sale could also be random. Might be to complicated though  

[Tiedemann]

1 minute ago, Louis Garneray said:

I understand what you try to do but at the same time most of the pvp players don't really care about the other side ship unless it's a gold one. So they will sink it if they cap it. As for the PVP marks some of them have so much of it that I don't think it will make them change their behavior. 

Maybe reducing what we get now to a half and then bringing the ships back to port would gain us 3 times as much!
I'm never going to settle with "enough", but what would prevent me from using a feature like this is the fact that it would require a perk slot/point..

# make fleet ship 1 perk standard ROE for all players! 

[Archaos]

The Devs already said that capturing the ship should be reward enough. Although in game the reality is that you make more by sinking the ship due to PvP marks value.

Personally I agree that it should be worth more taking a captured ship back to port rather than sinking it.

[Hethwill]

I hear you. I miss proper raidin' and bringing the prized merchandise home, being what is really valuable for the playstyle.

But hey, easy way out, immediate cash in spoke higher... and majority does indeed engage in the massacre orgy and cash in dozens of marks without any regards.

But it is a vice cycle:

1- pver grinds fleets, grabs drops

2- pver sells drops for pvp marks he won't get

3- pvper goes kill pvers to get marks

4- pvper buys drops with marks got from killing the pver

Am I wrong ?

[Captiva]

21 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

# make fleet ship 1 perk standard ROE for all players! 

@Ink @admin Please do this! 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Captiva

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 hour ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

I hear you. I miss proper raidin' and bringing the prized merchandise home, being what is really valuable for the playstyle.

But hey, easy way out, immediate cash in spoke higher... and majority does indeed engage in the massacre orgy and cash in dozens of marks without any regards.

But it is a vice cycle:

1- pver grinds fleets, grabs drops

2- pver sells drops for pvp marks he won't get

3- pvper goes kill pvers to get marks

4- pvper buys drops with marks got from killing the pver

Am I wrong ?

The cycle of life.

@Old Crusty

IMO there are some solutions to capitols camping.

1. Pvp ranking system: the more you kills, the higher your (permanent not daily) ranking.

1b. Chess like ranking reward bonus malus: the greater ranking difference, the higher reward for the winning underdog and the smaller for the winning alphadog.

Point 1+1b could make less worthy (time/risk/reward wise) for vets killing noobs and more worthy the revenge fleet kills.

2. Rework pvp mark reward per ship: ATM it's completely broken: an LGV is worth more than a Requin or an Hercules and a trader brig the same of a Requin.

The aim should be to favour warship v. warship battle over the merchant preying if the raider has no plan to get trader stuff too (that's usually not worth the time and especially the risk of being slowed down).

3. Nerf hard economic/pve gains operating inside Capitol areas and buff the same out: make the people spread out.

At the moment the sheer concentration of potential target in Capitol areas counterweights totally the higher risk of reinforcement zone. So raiders raid there... And casuals are so shocked being easily camped in safe zones to not to dare to leave. So they stay there and more raiders come. Recursive situation.

Spread out and also raiders will so reducing 'pressure' on a single area.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari
Typo

[Old Crusty]

28 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

The cycle of life.

@Old Crusty

IMO there are some solutions to capitols camping.

1. Pvp ranking system: the more you kills, the higher your (permanent not daily) ranking.

1b. Chess like ranking reward bonus malus: the greater ranking difference, the higher reward for the winning underdog and the smaller for the winning alphadog.

Point 1+1b could make less worthy (time/risk/reward wise) for vets killing noobs and more worthy the revenge fleet kills.

2. Rework pvp mark reward per ship: ATM it's completely broken: an LGV is worth more than a Requin or an Hercules and a trader brig the same of a Requin.

The aim should be to favour warship v. warship battle over the merchant preying if the raider has no plan to get trader stuff too (that's usually not worth the time and especially the risk of being slowed down).

3. Nerf hard economic/pve gains operating inside Capitol areas and buff the same out: make the people spread out.

At the moment the sheer concentration of potential target in Capitol areas counterweights totally the higher risk of reinforcement zone. So raiders raid there... And casuals are so shocked being easily camped in safe zones to not to dare to leave. So they stay there and more raiders come. Recursive situation.

Spread out and also raiders will so reducing 'pressure' on a single area.

You have some very good points 

[Licinio Chiavari]

20 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

You have some very good points 

Thank you. I am far less a troll than someone depicts me 😁

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

2 minutes ago, Archaos said:

The Devs already said that capturing the ship should be reward enough. Although in game the reality is that you make more by sinking the ship due to PvP marks value.

Personally I agree that it should be worth more taking a captured ship back to port rather than sinking it.

It took years, tens of thousands of £'s, $'s, Reals, to build ships, It was considered by all nations that it was cheaper, more cost and time efficient to capture and reuse ships against their former owners, the cost and time to build ships in game is markedly reduced, there is little or no incentive to capture and reuse ships in the game as long as the emphasis is on VM's and a position on a leader board.

Were it not for the Prize system and the hope of accumulating enough prize money for the 'little pub when I leave the sea' or whatever dream (and the threat of execution should they become logged as 'R' in the ships log) they had, kept the poorly paid officers and men of every navy at sea. 

While promotion depended largely on patronage, performance in battle and the ships captured were the criteria by which Captains and Admirals were judged by their peers, the men under command and the Nation as a whole, and, influenced very heavily their status in society, there was no other way that a son of a Norfolk Preacher could become a Lord, a Peer of the realm and an Admiral, a hero to his nation for 200 years.  Even his much maligned opponent Admiral Villeneuve, who not only worked extremely hard to earn his rank and survived the terror of his nation post revolution as well, went through the same process to achieve his station in life only to be humiliated, driven to end his own life by his Emperor, a singular disrespect for a Flag Officer who fought with courage and honour (things that mattered far more in the period the game is set in than they do today) for his nation, whose only failure was to sail on the orders of his Emperor against every shred of experience, and, in full knowledge of the outcome of those orders under the prevailing conditions of that time, also with the full knowledge that his Emperor intended to relieve him of his command, that his replacement was en-route to relieve him. 

Naval Action is essentially a war game, fought with beautifully rendered and for the most part accurate sailing ships, whose function was solely to destroy the enemy, to protect their nations trade and waters, most of all to survive to fight another day should things not go to plan on that day, the Articles of war, the ROE's were written with that aim in mind, despite the draconian punishments, in part the game reflects that, the capping of enemy ships, the prize  system which made the the names and reputations of so many great Captains and Admirals of all nations drove men on to fight in truly horrific conditions, the pride of fighting with, and, for men like Nelson, Villeneuve, John Paul Jones stayed with the rank and file for life,  to say  I was there, with those great men meant far more than VM's, a place on a leader board, or even that 'little pub', few of those men got their 'little pub' where they would recount their achievements with their Captain, their Admiral, and their ship, even if they did not get their pub their pride was no less, you see that very same pride in the posts in the great battles thread, they tell us they were there when we capped or sunk Christendom (no offense intended), it matters not if it was Trafalgar or Bensalem in game, the incentives should be the same, for the pride is the same, to say I was at Bensalem is no different to saying I was at Trafalgar, excepting that one is historical fact, the other is a battle in a game, To say I was there and receiving a little prize money means a lot more to many people than VM's and a number on a leader board, irrespective of whether they win, lose or draw a battle, for even the losing side sometimes took captured ships home for prize money, they too were there, they too were proud to say I was there.  

[Angus MacDuff]

Eh?

[Farrago]

5 hours ago, Crow said:

I would like to suggest 1.5 x PVP reward for returning ships to port and selling them to admiralty.

This would be realistic and would increase PVP OW opertuninty.

 

I'd take it even further: reduce PVP rewards for sinking the enemy; 3x PVP rewards for returning the prize to your nation's capitol. Prize if claimed for the PVP marks must be turned in to admiralty but you receive one of its permanent mods. 

[Angus MacDuff]

I would be very hesitant to make people return to port with every kill.  Many players go on long cruises looking for prey and they don't want to engage in a long sail home after every kill.  The previous suggestion of sending your prize home as an AI would actually give a nod to history.  It would even allow other players to capture your prize if you send it home unescorted.  Maybe for reduced rewards (as its now AI).

[Bluetooth]

It's a choice thing.

Do I risk sailing this back for more PVP marks or sink it and take the base value??

Adds a bit of reality and choice and play style, rather than sink, collect marks, repeat.

Plus sail it to a port with admiralty so does not need to be capital as such.

 

[William Death]

Yeah, even with the proposed suggestion, I'd still likely sink everything I run across.

3/5 ships are worthless to me. They have become disposable and casual use ships (but they're seeing a lot of use lately, what with the le broken and hercudumb still being OP). If I capture something, unless its 4/5 or better, or has some super good module installed, I sink it. Not worth my time to sail it back. Not to keep the ship (I can press a button a few times and have a fleet of ships just like it, plus the chance of getting a good ship (4/5 or better). Not for 1.5x PvP marks, and not for 2x PvP marks. There is too great a risk of it getting sunk/need to scuttle it to outrun the counter gank. A bird in the hand, as they say...

 

"Back in the day" we didn't have PvP marks. You PvP'd for the sake of PvP: for the thrill of the chase. I still treat it that way.

At the end of the day,  I don't care how many or how few ships I sank, or what I earned, as long as I got some good action and sailed away safely, I'm happy. I've gotten enough marks to buy the two useful PvP books and keep a constant supply of the 2-3 good PvP modules. Occasionally redeem a Wasa or L'Hermione... That being said, marks are still worth more to me as numbers in the rewards chest than the prospect of keeping a 3/5 ship, even with the risky option of sailing it home and selling it to the Admiralty later for more marks. Perhaps others would like and use the feature more than I would though...

[Lovec1990]

I agree capturing ship has too be more rewarding than sinking perhaps limit reward to 1 pvp mark if you sink the ship and current PvP marks reward if ship arrives too your closest outpost as AI. But also we need better boarding action current one is kinda boring.

[Cmdr RideZ]

It would be boring to force you to board always.

Now with multireps there is no other way to make your enemy surrender.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Cmdr RideZ

[Lovec1990]

3 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

It would be boring to force you to board always.

Now with multipers there is no other way to make your enemy surrender.

its not forcing you still can sink the ship but it would be more rewarding if you capture the ship and bring her too outpost

[John Jacob Astor]

23 hours ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

I hear you. I miss proper raidin' and bringing the prized merchandise home, being what is really valuable for the playstyle.

But hey, easy way out, immediate cash in spoke higher... and majority does indeed engage in the massacre orgy and cash in dozens of marks without any regards.

But it is a vice cycle:

1- pver grinds fleets, grabs drops

2- pver sells drops for pvp marks he won't get

3- pvper goes kill pvers to get marks

4- pvper buys drops with marks got from killing the pver

Am I wrong ?

Partially correct.

Single-account Econ Player doesn't grind fleets or grab resource drops because he can't compete head-to-head with labor hour, outpost, and perk advantages available via alts.

Maximizes labor hour perks in an attempt to remain competitive building ships and harvesting building outputs (zero-sum vs fleet and combat perks).

Can't coordinate escorts with dysfunctional clans.  Turns down silly offers for escorts from PvPers because they never pencil out on the merchant side.

PvPer clobbers Econ player in transit to sell ships and building outputs at market choke-points.  PvPer pockets magic rewards.

Consequently never makes enough money to buy much in the way of marks.

Abandons crafting for profit, hoping things improve after the economy rework.

Leaving one less clay pigeon on the water for the PvPers to shoot at.

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by John Jacob Astor
clarification

[Barbancourt]

I'm sure some people would enjoy getting the extra distinction for successfully sneaking a rated ship back to their capital as a prize.  We could perhaps even have Combat News make an announcement when it happens.