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PvE Experience and PvP Experience on ships


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Unless devs have a very good plan for encouraging pvp, what if you have PvE Ship Knowledge and PvP Ship knowledge. Keeping the normal combat(PvE) experience for when you are in battle where you do damage and sink AI and then you have call it e.g. War (PvP) Experience which is granted ONLY by doing damage to an enemy player and to avoid sink dodging the pvp experience is given to the ones that have assist or kill on the sunk/surrendered/captured ship.

It would work in similar way as in patrol zone where instead of getting nothing, you actually get pvp experience on your ship. This could also develop into something further, maybe unlocking different types of ships?

Just spreading my thoughts on the topic since all the pvp happens mostly around reinforcement zones.

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I understand why you suggested this but I don’t think it would work. You would have to PvP in all your ships like your Indiaman to unbox it. I don’t think that is fair. How long do you think it would take you to unbox your first rate? It would make the unboxing grind a nightmare 

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20 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

I understand why you suggested this but I don’t think it would work. You would have to PvP in all your ships like your Indiaman to unbox it. I don’t think that is fair. How long do you think it would take you to unbox your first rate? It would make the unboxing grind a nightmare 

well you could still unlock the use of first rate, but you would have to do pvp/rvr with it to be able to use the "Elite knowledge's". Of course for traders it would be some kind of lets say trade goods from point a to b for x amount of gold, those would be called Trade experience or something involved around trading.

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9 hours ago, Wyy said:

Unless devs have a very good plan for encouraging pvp, what if you have PvE Ship Knowledge and PvP Ship knowledge. Keeping the normal combat(PvE) experience for when you are in battle where you do damage and sink AI and then you have call it e.g. War (PvP) Experience which is granted ONLY by doing damage to an enemy player and to avoid sink dodging the pvp experience is given to the ones that have assist or kill on the sunk/surrendered/captured ship.

It would work in similar way as in patrol zone where instead of getting nothing, you actually get pvp experience on your ship. This could also develop into something further, maybe unlocking different types of ships?

Just spreading my thoughts on the topic since all the pvp happens mostly around reinforcement zones.

I understand the goal. I agree with the goal, but I think the solution is a problem. Imagine a group of new people going into RvR. They would have to grind their ships in battle to be competitive. They already suck because of a lack of skills, this approach would also give them a disadvantage due to a lack of a ship knowledge (as it would be hard to grind 1st rate in a PvP when you're a newb). It would make RvR more elitist.

On the other hand it would work well just for PvP.

I think it would work well if you could unlock eg first 3 slots through any combat, and last 2 through PvP. You should also get some experience when you sink. Then I think it would be a good change.

 

8 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

How long do you think it would take you to unbox your first rate?

You unbox them sooner in PvP actually, and it feels less of a grind. I levelled 2 last slots only through PvP on my 2 first rates. It's not that bad. With less than 3 slots you feel the disadvantage quite significantly though.

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Interesting rough idea. I kind of like it.

I can see attrition, especially in conquest, being a natural balancer for "ship population" given that XP is always awarded.

On the other hand it is not a "takes player by the hand" mechanic, so might be too much.

As a rough start, deserves more thinking and anything that moves away from PvE grinding is best for everyone in the Caribbean server.

 

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4 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

Interesting rough idea. I kind of like it.

I can see attrition, especially in conquest, being a natural balancer for "ship population" given that XP is always awarded.

On the other hand it is not a "takes player by the hand" mechanic, so might be too much.

As a rough start, deserves more thinking and anything that moves away from PvE grinding is best for everyone in the Caribbean server.

 

If you force people they will leave the game and saperating Ship XP to PvE XP and PvP XP will not nake people do more PvP it will do the opposite it will make players who PvE and ocasionaly PvP stick to PvE only.

Stick will not work it will only create worse untill players leave game or go to PvE server no you need a carrot to make more people do PvP and like or not DLC did made more people willing to PvP, but this game needs OW content examples:

-Exploring-discovering new locations with new materials,tradable goods,etc

-Shipwrecks_ current two should be scraped and wrecks should randomly be placed over the map and everybody could see and loot them it will make people go out search for wrecks

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So... trader models could be changed to 5 slots but, as now ( only 3 slots ) they could be developed by any means AND in addition level the gameplay to the warships as well 3 slots ( by any means ) + 2 slots dedicated to pvp.

I like the idea.

Needs a wipe to test this thoroughly and how well it works.

 

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If you want more people looking for PvP then fixing the Patrol Xones is the way to do it. After spending time in the patrol zones it has raised my skill. It has given me an appetite for PvP marks. I will now sail in the OW and look for a fight.

everyone should be pressing the devs to fix PvP zones or to come up with a better system with the same purpose.

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3 hours ago, vazco said:

I understand the goal. I agree with the goal, but I think the solution is a problem. Imagine a group of new people going into RvR. They would have to grind their ships in battle to be competitive. They already suck because of a lack of skills, this approach would also give them a disadvantage due to a lack of a ship knowledge (as it would be hard to grind 1st rate in a PvP when you're a newb). It would make RvR more elitist.

well it is all most like this already anyway, everyone have a l'ocean live oak/white oak, some are sailing a 3/5 others 5/5 some have nortern master carps and nortern carps combo, some have only one.

Yes its an advantage to have a better equipped ship, but its by no means necessary in RvR because it all comes down to experience and team play.

I can see the then problem with OW pvp in 1st rates to grind the slots, but what if we then implement what they have in WoTs and WoWs where if you are using a fully unlocked vehicle/ship you get bonux experience which you can set on any other ship. For instance you sail a Trincomalee with fully unlocked pvp slots, if you then pvp in that ship and gain xp you can place in on your first rate which is in port.

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2 hours ago, McKillen said:

Maybe 1st 3 slots can be unlocked by doing anything, then the last two slots are unlocked by RvR/PvP only. That way you can grind it in PvE to be usable, but to be able to "master" the ship you need to use it for everything, not just use it for one purpose. That way if you want 5 slots you must do a bit of everything.

This is bad, makes PvPers even more stronger as they will unlock the two slots along with the first three while the PvE/Causals will be lucky to have a few slots open.   It's been brought up before.

OP what I would love to see instead of spliting them is actually give the players a reputation system in game.  Higher reputation in one area you can buy better things from the Admiralty shop.  

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1 minute ago, McKillen said:

Why should we accomodate for PvE players when we are on the PvP server? And it doesnt have to be many RvR or PvP fights, maybe like 1/2 PBs for 4th slot, then 5 or more for the 5th slot. 

Because the PvE server is a joke. If you want any content in the game at all you must play on the PvP server. Next, you want to encourage people to continue playing the game instead of thinking it will be impossible to sail a first rate because the PB commander want unboxed ship in the PB fleet. 

   It will make to where average or worse players will be shut out of some of the best content the game has to offer.

   There are so many games out there that is nothing but grind PvP and NA is not one of them.

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Shop Snow took me 4 good squadron vs squadron PvP encounters to totally unlock the 5 slots ( thanks to the help of some captains ). Not a week ago was on zero slots.

Ships of the Line... obviouuuuusly... need way more knowledge XP but given the amount of damage output i'd say they also make...obviouuuuuuusly much more XP per encounter.

NA PvP = chance encounters, age of sail experience, routes patrol.... ( unless a zone pro camper but that's the easy way out)

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27 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

This is bad, makes PvPers even more stronger as they will unlock the two slots along with the first three while the PvE/Causals will be lucky to have a few slots open.   It's been brought up before.

OP what I would love to see instead of spliting them is actually give the players a reputation system in game.  Higher reputation in one area you can buy better things from the Admiralty shop.  

people will get their pvp experience even though they sink. right now if you were to 1v1 anyone for 30 mins and sink or get captured you sit there with nothing in return, i feel that is some of the things that could be fixed with this idea.

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Have you really looked at this? 

To make the top rank in the game it takes 80,000 exp

to get the fifth box unlocked on a Le’Ocean it takes 80,000 exp.

how often do you see people cruising the OW in first rates looking for PvP? It is very rare? Why? Because if you solo hunt in a first rate you will die. Say you have three guys that go out and hunt. When the revenge fleet comes out with taggers and chasers along with double the number of first rates, you will die.

   I am sorry guys but this is a bad idea to split the different kinds of experience 

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Just now, Old Crusty said:

Have you really looked at this? 

To make the top rank in the game it takes 80,000 exp

to get the fifth box unlocked on a Le’Ocean it takes 80,000 exp.

how often do you see people cruising the OW in first rates looking for PvP? It is very rare? Why? Because if you solo hunt in a first rate you will die. Say you have three guys that go out and hunt. When the revenge fleet comes out with tiggers and chasers along with double the number of first rates, you will die.

   I am sorry guys but this is a bad idea to split the different kinds of experience 

Thats when the xp gain system from World of Tanks and World of Warships comes in, when a ship is fully unlocked you can use the xp from that ship in further battles and send them over to your first rate. would of course be lower amount of xp needed further encouraging people to unlock levels with pvp instead of pve

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Fair points.

Can i just say something, and I hope you don't get distressed.

Multi player game design. Translates to interaction with multiple other players, friendly, enemy. Solo is a choice, not the standard design.

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8 minutes ago, McKillen said:

RvR and Screening. There are the two main ways in which PvP occurs that can build up experience very quickly fore your 1st rate. I have been to screen in ships that have 0 knowledge and come back with 2 slots opened. I have been to PBs with 1 slot open, and did not sink, and got a kill with assists and helped the PB fleet, and also unlocking nearly 2 slots. When you play with other players in number (like a PB fleet) the slots aren't the biggest deal, its the teamwork, the organisation of not blocking your allies.

And some first rates are viable for 3-4 man groups. There are some Victorys that can hit around 13 knots, paired with 2 bellonas that can be formidable as anything that catches you can be sunk and you may continue running from the main group.

 

 

Good points

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20 minutes ago, Wyy said:

Thats when the xp gain system from World of Tanks and World of Warships comes in, when a ship is fully unlocked you can use the xp from that ship in further battles and send them over to your first rate. would of course be lower amount of xp needed further encouraging people to unlock levels with pvp instead of pve

Your facts and knowledge of WoT and WoW falls short. 

1.in those games your experience does continue to accumulate on your tank/ship after it is maxed out. That is the end of your facts.

2. There is no system in those games that you can take that stored experience from your tank/ship and give it directly to another.

3. The system you are referring to is the “Free Experience “ system. Every battle you play about 5% of experience earned goes to free experience. That experience can be used on any other tank or ship you own.

4. If you PAY REAL MONEY by purchasing in game currency, you can use that to convert accumulated experience on Tanks/ships that are fully upgraded to free experience that can then be used on other tanks/ships. That is very expensive and is only used by people with more money than time.

5. NA is not WoT or WoW and I would love to keep it that way. If Wargaming.net made a game like WoT/WoW I am sure it would be successful but for me, I want more content than just grind ships in battle and that is all there is.

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1 hour ago, Old Crusty said:

Your facts and knowledge of WoT and WoW falls short. 

1.in those games your experience does continue to accumulate on your tank/ship after it is maxed out. That is the end of your facts.

2. There is no system in those games that you can take that stored experience from your tank/ship and give it directly to another.

3. The system you are referring to is the “Free Experience “ system. Every battle you play about 5% of experience earned goes to free experience. That experience can be used on any other tank or ship you own.

4. If you PAY REAL MONEY by purchasing in game currency, you can use that to convert accumulated experience on Tanks/ships that are fully upgraded to free experience that can then be used on other tanks/ships. That is very expensive and is only used by people with more money than time.

5. NA is not WoT or WoW and I would love to keep it that way. If Wargaming.net made a game like WoT/WoW I am sure it would be successful but for me, I want more content than just grind ships in battle and that is all there is.

yeah it would have to be done in a different way, but instead of using real money the leftover xp from a ship goes into the captains chest as pvp experience which you can use on other ships

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2 hours ago, Wyy said:

I can see the then problem with OW pvp in 1st rates to grind the slots, but what if we then implement what they have in WoTs and WoWs where if you are using a fully unlocked vehicle/ship you get bonux experience which you can set on any other ship. For instance you sail a Trincomalee with fully unlocked pvp slots, if you then pvp in that ship and gain xp you can place in on your first rate which is in port.

That's actually a really good idea :)

 

Btw, in terms of RvR, you feel a huge difference when your whole fleet has no skill knowledge and enemy has 5 each - I had a chance to test this with mods in the past. Sure, organization and personal skills always trumps mods/slots, but it has a meaning. 

 

 

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I would be in favor of differing PVP vs PVE experience if it was part of an overall reputation system which is built -- or torn down -- by combat, trade, crafting, national participation, etc. even including a feedback from opponents. An "honor" score if you will.

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17 hours ago, Wyy said:

yeah it would have to be done in a different way, but instead of using real money the leftover xp from a ship goes into the captains chest as pvp experience which you can use on other ships

I would love to see a small percentage of your xoxo goes towards your fleet ships.  Along with any travel Co needs to go to your chat  and ship.   When you hit max rank I feel a lot of xp is wasted if you already slotted out your ship.  Maybe once you reach 5 slots a percentage of any new xo goes towards like ship class of that ship.  I have a 5 slotted L’Ocean.  All extra cp goes towards the Santi and Victory.  Either split amount all ships of that tier or a small percentage.  It will make grinding out ships not so grindish.

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