Proper ability to scuttle ship

[Raf Van Boom]

Add an ability to scuttle ship, when activated crew loss occurs (50%?), it takes 30s(?) to complete if not boarded by the enemy during that time, when completed the enemy receives PvP/combat marks, gold and xp but no loot (including upgrades)

Adjust 'surrender' - the person surrendering receives back one of the permanent upgrades (if not all upgrade slots are filled possibly nothing).

[Captiva]

If the Dev's acknowledge that scuttling ones ship is permissible in game, then players should definitely have a proper 'Scuttle Ship' command.

1. Once a player activates the 'Scuttle Ship' command a timer of some predetermined length begins ticking down; and a normal boarding battle is no longer an option because the player is in the process of abandoning ship.  

2. The length of the timer should be in the enemies favor to some degree. The player who is scuttling his ship is penalized in this regard in order to account for the time needed to abandon ship.

3. If the enemy boards the ship before it sinks, they get the ship and all of it's contents immediately. 

4. The player who scuttles his ship is sent to the nearest port.

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Captiva

[RedNeckMilkMan]

Let's think about this logically. You are a captain who just gave the order to scuttle your ship to avoid it's capture. Congratulations! You most likely have a mutiny on your hands. Tell me will the enemy captain take your crew on to his boat which is now severely over crowded and he could possibly lose to an uprising, use his limited rations to feed them and transport them to the nearest port where he can leave them? Or would he turn his ship around and go find an actual prize?

In game you can surrender which is enough. When you surrender I think that only enemy ships should be able to scuttle the ship. After all, what allied ship would have the time to scuttle a ship while they are running for their lives?

Edited August 15, 2018 by RedNeckMilkMan

[RedNeckMilkMan]

3 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

The accounts I have been looking at were not suicidal at all... Scuttled ship were scuttled close to the coast or in harbors

My example was out at sea. Being in port is another thing. And some ships were run aground and abandoned or set on fire. But the vast majority of ships in real life and in game were taken out at sea.

Edited August 15, 2018 by RedNeckMilkMan

[Bluetooth]

I cant think of a single ship that was scuttled during a battle in the age of sail.

No scuttle button please.

Part of the game is acquiring stuff from sinking ships.

ALL PLAYERS would hit the scuttle button just like they used to surrender before patch.

 

[Archaos]

2 minutes ago, Crow said:

I cant think of a single ship that was scuttled during a battle in the age of sail.

No scuttle button please.

Part of the game is acquiring stuff from sinking ships.

ALL PLAYERS would hit the scuttle button just like they used to surrender before patch.

 

By the same token attackers should not be allowed to sink captured ships. They should either have to take them with them in fleet or leave them behind so that they return to the original owner or can be picked up by someone else.

[Bluetooth]

7 minutes ago, Archaos said:

By the same token attackers should not be allowed to sink captured ships. They should either have to take them with them in fleet or leave them behind so that they return to the original owner or can be picked up by someone else.

No, quite often ships are so damaged after a battle that they are unseaworthy and sink.

But those that were seaworthy were often sailed home with a skelington crew. Ships were much more prized than they are in game. If captains are on a mission and could not spare the men etc the ship would be set alight.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Crow

[Archaos]

1 hour ago, Crow said:

No, quite often ships are so damaged after a battle that they are unseaworthy and sink.

But those that were seaworthy were often sailed home with a skelington crew. Ships were much more prized than they are in game. If captains are on a mission and could not spare the men etc the ship would be set alight.

Its amazing how the reality card is pulled out when it suits people. Originally you said "I cant think of a single ship that was scuttled during a battle in the age of sail." but now "Ships were much more prized than they are in game". Majority of ships captured in game are scuttled by the person who captured it, why should they have the ability to scuttle but the owner cannot. Personally I am against the scuttle ability but I think it should apply both ways.

The reality is most ships were sent home as prizes so unless it is actually sinking it means the ship is seaworthy and should be taken in fleet. You can't have it both ways. You want to sink a ship then keep shooting it till it sinks, you want to capture a ship then board and capture it, but be prepared to keep it with you till you get back to port. There has been a suggestion of being allowed to send a ship away from an instance where it then becomes an AI ship sailing to the destination and can be captured again or sunk. I thought this was quite a good idea, but not sure if it is feasible.

[Raf Van Boom]

It's more to prevent this kind of petty behaviour

 

[Farrago]

I think we should have a scuttle button, but I think we should also have a game where the economy, economic warfare, and denying a ship to the enemy means something. Under the current conditions, who cares if another ship goes down. 

[King of Crowns]

So as is apparent by admins recent ruling scuttle is in the game already it just takes some mickey mouse bull crap to do it. @admin please give us a scuttle button so that we can deny battles to any retards left in this game trying to find open world pvp. this will also enable us to deny gold ships and upgrades to people once we realize the battle is lost. this will bring about even less reason to pvp. as if we don't have enough bull crap mechanics in place already to work against pvpers/gankgers. this seems to be the current direction of the game. this mechanic will also help the newbs feel better whenever they are getting ganked. this mechanic will help to retain new players because they get the final word. @Ink I think this mechanic is just over due... it should have been added years ago. please put the port UI on hold until this mechanic is released.

[Hethwill]

I would think Surrender is the gameplay compromise to this situation and it doesn't take much to go back on the suggestions and updates regarding Surrender option to understand that the present state is to allow a fast non time consuming way out AND not denying the other party the ship/content.

A scuttle button !? Of a exceptional seaworthy ship ? What would the Admiralty think of your actions, Sir !?!? 

Now, if you decide to "burn" your fleet in port while being blockaded, you don't need a button for that. You simply "destroy" the ship.

C'mon guys, be reasonable. It is a fighting game. Best you can do is go down guns blazing or, if you don't have the time to spare... surrender. 

@King of Crowns

the green on green, if agreed by both players, is not a new discussion and has been ruled quite long ago.

 

[Bluetooth]

11 hours ago, Archaos said:

Its amazing how the reality card is pulled out when it suits people. Originally you said "I cant think of a single ship that was scuttled during a battle in the age of sail." but now "Ships were much more prized than they are in game".

I think you should read again What I said you obviously mistook my position.

I am against a scuttle button. I can't think of a single ship scuttled during a battle in the age of sail.

After a battle, prizes were sent home or scuttled.

Not sure how you confused yourself??

 

[Archaos]

1 hour ago, Crow said:

I think you should read again What I said you obviously mistook my position.

I am against a scuttle button. I can't think of a single ship scuttled during a battle in the age of sail.

After a battle, prizes were sent home or scuttled.

Not sure how you confused yourself??

 

Yes but after battle seaworthy ships were not scuttled, so why is this allowed in game if you are playing the reality card. All efforts were made to try and get a captured ship back to port and some sank on the way back despite the best efforts.

 

[Raf Van Boom]

There is nothing historical about this game other than ship models... Sailing, navigation, combat, and for a good reason too, you really don't want an accurate simulation of life at sea in whatever time period this takes.

 

[Hethwill]

Correct Archaos, if you had to answer to the Admiralty and Navy Board for the scuttling, even being a privateer.  ( history )

Alas we do not, nor we shall have to at any measure, we can simply discard all the wood. ( gameplay )

[Hethwill]

Just now, Le Raf Boom said:

you really don't want an accurate simulation of life at sea in whatever time period this takes

I would really want a very credible simulation of life in the Caribbean during the whatever grand age of sail Naval Action creates. If not at sim combat level, then at "world" level.

But this is another subject.

Let's scuttle all the ships we capture and give crafters a purpose.

[Raf Van Boom]

Surely you don't want to wait 15 minutes for your yards to turn?

[Hethwill]

Say 15 minutes heh... ok... need more "knowledge slots" on that captain then.

Combat is great. Make the world more sim. Maybe read or scuttle yer ship.

[Angus MacDuff]

Commerce raiding was a reality of war.  Ships on a commerce raiding mission were to there to deny merchant vessels to the enemy.  When capturing multiple ships, a Captain had to make the tough decision to give up some of his crew to take the ship as a prize or scuttle.  This decision was made all the time.  There is nothing wrong with destroying a captured ship if you have reasons to move on without it.

[Macjimm]

I'm not a expert and deferred to the knowledge here in the community.  I assumed from all of the anti-scuttle arguements that it rarely happened historically.  But from the wee bits I've read, it was a reasonable tactic to deny enemy access to ships and cargo.   It seems that captains and crew would sometimes rather lose their ship, than allow it to become the prize of their foe.  It is easy to find examples of examples when ships were sunk on purpose to ensure that the vessels did not become the property of a foe.  Sometime fleets were sunk.

I think I would refrain from scuttling for sportsmanship only.  Giving a present, of a good ship with all its cargo, to someone who had attacked me, seems very gamey and only to satisfy some competitive sense of balance.  I hope my opponent appreciates my grace and generosity.

It is unfortunate the game's economy is not more integrated and that the loss of ships and goods has so little impact on a nation's fighting strength.  Destroying enemy assets should be it's own reward.

[Bluetooth]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

Yes but after battle seaworthy ships were not scuttled, so why is this allowed in game if you are playing the reality card. All efforts were made to try and get a captured ship back to port and some sank on the way back despite the best efforts.

 

Then maybe......

1.5x the PVP reward for ships returned to port!

[Hethwill]

1.5x the PVP reward for ships returned to port...and....

... is taken by the Admiralty at store cost ?

[Archaos]

2 hours ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

Correct Archaos, if you had to answer to the Admiralty and Navy Board for the scuttling, even being a privateer.  ( history )

Alas we do not, nor we shall have to at any measure, we can simply discard all the wood. ( gameplay )

My point was that if captured ships are allowed to be scuttled as gameplay then the person should not object to owners of ships scuttling them themselves due to reality reasons. Either everyone can scuttle ships or no one should be allowed scuttle ships. It would solve at least one problem, and that would be the boarding meta, because unless you really wanted to keep the ship you would not bother to board in order to win the battle. If this was the case then they could get rid of DD.

So I would propose get rid of scuttling altogether, you either sink or capture a ship, get rid of DD and if a ship is captured it has to either be sailed back to port in fleet or left abandoned for others to take. If no one takes it before instance closes the ship appears in the nearest deep water port and the owner receives notification to come and claim it upon payment of salvage amount.

[Hethwill]

Regarding what exactly ? Denial of ship capture only ?