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Hullabaloo

Ship Rebalance suggestion

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Apologies for the slightly mis-leading title. This is a bit like a suicide note. It's just self indulgent reflection really, but if it prevents just one person wasting any more time discussing NA game mechanics, then it'll be worth it

I keep reading all these comments that broadly say either of 2 things:

1. 'DLC ships are fine (fun even!). There's more PvP now. It's up to players to adapt, stop moaning and buy a Le Requin' - I'm not going to waste anymore of mine and your time discussing this,  it's that daft. Every sensible person knows these ships are hideously unbalanced and have ruined the game. If you don't see that, then just stop reading now.

2. DLC ships are broken and so require re-balancing - less daft, but equally unrealistic.

Quote: On 7/12/2018 at 12.29 PM, admin said:

"Hard numbers in the DLC wont change. Ship stats mentioned in store might change ONLY if ALL ships are drastically rebalanced over time. (eg all ships will lose 1 knot of speed or gain 1 knot of speed for general game balance)." 

Please read this again, take a deep breath and let it sink in....think about what this means.

Ship BR's won't be changed, ships wont be excluded from Port Battles,  crew won't be reduced, cannon class won't be downgraded. Nothing will be nerfed or buffed, not even a tiny bit tweaked.  It's pointless talking about DLC ship rebalancing or any other ship rebalancing, that's now over. Except for the Economy/Ship building and the Port UI this game is finished. While you might enjoy reading about turn rates or sail damage models and effective chain range (as do I) the 'Combat Mechanics Discussions' thread may as well be closed. This is it's final post :)

I will spell it out another way:

Dev's have given up on this game. The Herc and the Req being so OP is not a 'mistake in need of a rebalance', it was intended and planned. They have washed their hands and are preparing to move on. They have introduced two wildly OP ships in the full and certain knowledge that it would break the game, to make it as difficult as possible to play NA, without having to buy it. To milk as much money as they can before they move on to other things. The Admiralty Connections DLC is unarguably pay to win, why would anyone think the ship DLC's would be any different? They have every right of course, I'm not moralising, that's capitalism, it's their game, they can do what they like.

To my knowledge the admin has not commented on the DLC's since early June. I'm not sure of the last time the admin commented on anything in fact. Where are the hotfixes and patches? They have virtually dried up. They will now finish the economy patch and the Port UI, and iron out any obvious bugs and rush it to release, where they will sell a few more units and a few more DLC's and get their money back.

Some of you might feel that all the years of time and effort this community have put in: ideas, suggestions and testing, having now been sold for £11.39 a pop, is a bit of a betrayal? That they should not have just cashed in and left RvR and Open World PvP broken and the game a P2W farce? Well, that's your opinion :) 

I will continue to make suggestions. What about more DLC's?  How about a 1st rate: the 150 gun 'Caledonia' (redeemable once every hour for only £14.99) with three decks capable of carrying the new 56 pound poods (£4.99) and an optional built in Naval Clock (only £2.99!).  I fully expect a forum ban for this post, but I now wonder if the admin even bothers reading the forums anymore? If/when i am banned, I will just breathe a little sigh of relief although I do feel like a bit of an idiot for all the times I defended this game on steam from all it's many detractors. I was wrong, they were right.

We failed. This is the Naval Action we got and it's rubbish. Worse than even the most pessimistic, bad steam review writing, trolling bitter vet could have possibly imagined. 

I will probably still play now and then. Call me a hypocrite but I might even buy the Herc DLC and just sail around. I wont bother with trading or mats or ship building or any of the game world mechanics at all, I might even manage to get into the odd PB, and I will try my best, although I won't really care about the outcome. PvP marks will easily pay for upgrades. I'll just hop on and do a bit of PvP until I just get bored. The dream of an exciting and strategic game where your actions had purpose, where your participation had an actual effect on the game world and your interactions and battles with other players had any kind of consequence? Well, that's just a broken and fading dream. It's over, I'm letting go, I suggest you do to.

o7

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What a wall of text full of bs

4 hours ago, admin said:

Hotfix will be deployed on the 9th August

  • Hercules armor thickness and HP slightly reduced to 50 and 3300
  • Le Requin speed at 180 degrees (wind from the stern) slightly reduced to approximately 6.5 knots from 8 knots
  • Massive buffs to hp and slight buffs to thickness across all 6th rates and 7th rates
  • Slight buff to 4lb and 6lb damage

In addition to tunes 

  • Overloaded OW speed debuff deployed early. The rest of the fix (giving no option to overload the ship through trade might appear in the port UI patch).

 

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5 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

What a wall of text full of bs

 Maybe you should work on your attitude, if it's not your opinion it's ok but respect others opinions. And he said: 

37 minutes ago, Hullabaloo said:

Every sensible person knows these ships are hideously unbalanced and have ruined the game. If you don't see that, then just stop reading now.

 If you wasted time reading all text, it's your problem.

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7 minutes ago, Cabral said:

 Maybe you should work on your attitude, if it's not your opinion it's ok but respect others opinions. And he said: 

 If you wasted time reading all text, it's your problem.

I agree with him that DLC ships are complete garbage which ruin the game and that they were introduced completely broken to increase sales. The point is tho that all of his statements are based on an outdated post:

46 minutes ago, Hullabaloo said:

Quote: On 7/12/2018 at 12.29 PM, admin said:

"Hard numbers in the DLC wont change. Ship stats mentioned in store might change ONLY if ALL ships are drastically rebalanced over time. (eg all ships will lose 1 knot of speed or gain 1 knot of speed for general game balance)." 

 

Edited by Jon Snow lets go

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Yeah I was wrong about that then, I stand corrected. It seems they are doing a little rebalancing after all which is tiny bit of a relief. I should keep up. Although tbf I have asked numerous times in game and on forum if this was correct and never got any clarification either way so I just assumed that the admin statement was correct. It was pretty unambiguous. That's a bit of a U-turn then, but one that doesn't really change anything much.  The game will still be dominated by P2W DLC ships and now sucks. I still don't expect to see much work being done on rebalancing and/or game mechanics. I'm still massively disappointed in the way the game has turned out.

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Now i am lost. They said the DLC ships can't be directly nerfed and the intention was to buff the others ships to have some balance.

So ok i made a simple list of changes needed:

  15 hours ago, Hullabaloo said:

I totally agree, unfortunately it will be along wait: To quote admin:

"Hard numbers in the DLC wont change. Ship stats mentioned in store might change ONLY if ALL ships are drastically rebalanced over time. (eg all ships will lose 1 knot of speed or gain 1 knot of speed for general game balance). 

It's here to stay, they can't fix this one. Most of the people I had been playing with have uninstalled already.

I get slated cos I keep repeating this in chat and in the forums and am told I am talking nonsenseThere is consensus that the DLC has broken the game, but many have been slow to realise that this is permanent. :(

 

  3 hours ago, z4ys said:

2exvee.jpg

looks similar :D

 

Xebec pre and after hotfix pirate rig speed.

 

 

I joined NA a month ago and before i played WG products for almost 4 years.  From this i know that WG never, never, never nerfs a premium. Buff can happens if needed. The problem here is the same since  players spent real money , however this bring some serious problems because the game mechanics in NA.

First i want to congratulate the devs for the hotfix about the elite pirate rig. This solve one of the two issues i have with this ship. ( the other one is the firepower ) 

 

Now let's imagine what could be done to balance other ships with this two.

- All 5th rates needs to have shallow water sailing. The only way to save Bahamas.  

- Many ships needs to have a buff in 1 knot of speed. The hotfix solves the problem with the Requin but there is still the Hercules. 

- Many 5th rates will need a buff to the turn radius.

- The Requin will still have 250 crew and 32 pd carronades so in order to have some balance, the 6th rates will need a major buff in HP and armor thickness. This will create a snowball effect to the others ships.

- The BR will need to have a major rework to all ships in game to be balance to this DLC ships.

 

To prevent future problems with premiums ships i suggest to test them in the PVE server for a long time , against bot and in duels. If not in a few years, after many balances every time a new premium is release we will all sail in Ferraris , in a very arcade game of sailing.

 

And now it seems they are nerfing just a little? So stats on DLC ships can change? What a mess.

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I have since been corrected, there is to be a slight nerf apparently (although that admin quote was genuine). It seems the imbalance was so bad they had no choice. But it's still very slight and they are limited in terms of how much they can nerf it. Buffing the other ships to bring them into line is counted as the same thing. None of it is gonna make a lot of difference really. They are still very strong ships that are redeemable everyday and they will remain ubiquitous, and that can't be fixed. I really don't like them, it's P2W and that's really put me off this game, which is now a lot less that it could have been. I'm done moaning about it now though. It is what it is. I'll carry on playing here and there, but much less and in a limited way. 

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On 8/9/2018 at 12:03 PM, Hullabaloo said:

 

I will probably still play now and then. Call me a hypocrite but I might even buy the Herc DLC and just sail around. I wont bother with trading or mats or ship building or any of the game world mechanics at all, I might even manage to get into the odd PB, and I will try my best, although I won't really care about the outcome. PvP marks will easily pay for upgrades. I'll just hop on and do a bit of PvP until I just get bored. The dream of an exciting and strategic game where your actions had purpose, where your participation had an actual effect on the game world and your interactions and battles with other players had any kind of consequence? Well, that's just a broken and fading dream. It's over, I'm letting go, I suggest you do to.

o7

Thanks for that. Don't let the door smack you in your ass as you leave. Bye.

Edited by Crow

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On 8/9/2018 at 11:28 AM, no one said:

Now i am lost. They said the DLC ships can't be directly nerfed and the intention was to buff the others ships to have some balance.

So ok i made a simple list of changes needed:

  15 hours ago, Hullabaloo said:

I totally agree, unfortunately it will be along wait: To quote admin:

"Hard numbers in the DLC wont change. Ship stats mentioned in store might change ONLY if ALL ships are drastically rebalanced over time. (eg all ships will lose 1 knot of speed or gain 1 knot of speed for general game balance). 

It's here to stay, they can't fix this one. Most of the people I had been playing with have uninstalled already.

I get slated cos I keep repeating this in chat and in the forums and am told I am talking nonsenseThere is consensus that the DLC has broken the game, but many have been slow to realise that this is permanent. :(

 

  3 hours ago, z4ys said:

2exvee.jpg

looks similar :D

 

Xebec pre and after hotfix pirate rig speed.

 

 

I joined NA a month ago and before i played WG products for almost 4 years.  From this i know that WG never, never, never nerfs a premium. Buff can happens if needed. The problem here is the same since  players spent real money , however this bring some serious problems because the game mechanics in NA.

First i want to congratulate the devs for the hotfix about the elite pirate rig. This solve one of the two issues i have with this ship. ( the other one is the firepower ) 

 

Now let's imagine what could be done to balance other ships with this two.

- All 5th rates needs to have shallow water sailing. The only way to save Bahamas.  

- Many ships needs to have a buff in 1 knot of speed. The hotfix solves the problem with the Requin but there is still the Hercules. 

- Many 5th rates will need a buff to the turn radius.

- The Requin will still have 250 crew and 32 pd carronades so in order to have some balance, the 6th rates will need a major buff in HP and armor thickness. This will create a snowball effect to the others ships.

- The BR will need to have a major rework to all ships in game to be balance to this DLC ships.

 

To prevent future problems with premiums ships i suggest to test them in the PVE server for a long time , against bot and in duels. If not in a few years, after many balances every time a new premium is release we will all sail in Ferraris , in a very arcade game of sailing.

 

And now it seems they are nerfing just a little? So stats on DLC ships can change? What a mess.

WG never nerf lol you never owned the Type 59 from the start did you?

those that did would know exactly what I’m talking about.  What made that tank op wasn’t it’s stats it was that every one that had it from the start had 5 perk crews.

 

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54 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

WG never nerf lol you never owned the Type 59 from the start did you?

those that did would know exactly what I’m talking about.  What made that tank op wasn’t it’s stats it was that every one that had it from the start had 5 perk crews.

 

I played WOTB not WOT. 

In WOTB type 59 already came balance .

 

In wot however. 2012 so long ago. You call this a nerf?

  • Increased the traverse speed from 45 to 46 deg/sec.
  • Reduced the gun dispersion during vehicle rotation by 5%.
  • Reduced ground resistance by 10%.
  • Changed the Norinco 12150L engine tier from IX to VIII.
  • Repair cost of Norinco 12150L engine has been increased by 22%.
  • Weight of the hull increased from 15,400kg to 16,478kg.
  • Armoring of the Type 59 turret increased from 104mm to 130mm.
  • Armoring of the Type 59 hull sides decreased  from 65mm to 60mm.
  • Reloading time of the Type 59 100mm gun increased from 8.0 sec to 8.7sec.
  • Increased the aiming time for the 100 mm Type 59 gun from 2.86 sec to 2.9 sec.
  • Increased the damage value of the Chuan bei-412 shell from 230 to 250 points.
  • Increased the penetration value of the Chuan bei-412 shell from 175mm to 181mm.
  • Increased the damage value of the Chuan chao-412 shell from 230 to 250 points.
  • Increased the penetration value of the Chuan chao-412 shell from 235mm to 241mm.
  • Increased the tower traverse speed from 45 to 46 deg/sec.

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We have no Type-59 sci-fi futuristic machines in game.

This is the grand age of sail captains. Eyes on the horizon, focus on the prize.

A good thing about NA is the global envelope that ultimately affects all veffels.

Obviously the model can be reviewed but if everything is to specs, is there any problem really ? ( other than extra equipments and slots mutating the ships )

It is like having a airplane modeled to the blueprints and whole structure and surfaces having the correct numbers - air and atmosphere is the same for all. If there's anything wrong the devs have to go through the entire plans and see if there's a measure missing. Sometimes it is just limitation of the machines we use - such as we can't possibly calculate 10 thousand flushed rivets in flight in a zero, can we ? ;) 

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That was one of the early patches it later got nerfed big time cause people complained it was OP.  The problem is it had really good stats cause the folks that owned if where all very skilled played with it completely unlocked.  My point is that some of the ships we have had in game been like this and some of them got nerf to a point no one uses them when. They where never really OP.  It was just they had very good stats cause of the folks that used them.

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7 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

They where never really OP.  It was just they had very good stats cause of the folks that used them.

You understand what you are saying??????????????????????

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On 8/10/2018 at 2:03 PM, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:
Tell if the ship acts credible like this.
 
I am using a Cedar/Cedar Blue Xebec, no extra refit.
No Modules installed.
Knowledge - 15,10,5 Marines, Axes and Muskets and Pistols
 
 

 

 

 Yep that shows what i mean about hitbox/deflection issue, for a berm/berm Req deflects like it's lo/wo carta refit lol. 

 Herc deflects also to well for tk/tk builds but not as pronounced as req as isn't as low to water i guess.

Of course when angling well should get benefits, but some broadsides i taken in a herc where i felt i should have been nailed..... surely not everyone is such a bad shot :).

Edited by Dibbler
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3 hours ago, Dibbler said:

Yep that shows what i mean about hitbox/deflection issue, for a berm/berm Req deflects like it's lo/wo carta refit lol. 

All ships do :) It is not exclusive to Xebec. But I would definitely lower her thickness and HP.

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Honestly, i think devs made mistake with the ships and now they are kind of in trouble, because they already got the money and promisis were already given.

According to my calculations, Le Requin should have BR 110 and Hercules 180.

I understand devs need to monetize the game some way to keep it going. I personally see few different ways to do that.

- sell cosmetics (i prefer this) like paints, custom bow figures etc.

- sell quality of life (like the other dlcs), xp boosts etc (ok for me)

- maybe sell boxes with random loot, that can be obtained in game (dont like this one much)

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21 hours ago, Dibbler said:

 

 Yep that shows what i mean about hitbox/deflection issue, for a berm/berm Req deflects like it's lo/wo carta refit lol. 

 Herc deflects also to well for tk/tk builds but not as pronounced as req as isn't as low to water i guess.

Of course when angling well should get benefits, but some broadsides i taken in a herc where i felt i should have been nailed..... surely not everyone is such a bad shot :).

I laughed hard watching that twitch recording (do not forget this ship does not have any mods in this battle)

Hetwill experienced pvp player, against z4ys another experienced captain and the snow. So a 4th rate becomes a confused monkey against the Le Requin :)

Notice Hethwill has not mastered manual sailing on the Xebec yet,

Notice 240 crew being %100 boarding ready with MARINES ! and missing just some crew on cannons (now imagine it has teak/crew or hammocks, always boarding ready with marines with no penalty.) 

Notice the small ship not graping the bigger ship, and they go broadside etc. Normaly they would grape the big ship to death, reducing his crew, big ship unable to reload guns faster, can not be ready for boarding etc. I saw an easy kill there, but they decided not to, I guess just to showcase other aspects of the game. Remind you this ship has 32 pounder Carros, a good stern rake can take more than 100 crew on the bigger ship! I did 175 crew kills in 1 pass.

And @Sir Hethwill the RedDuke becoming a hardcore red sail defender, that is interesting for me. As the experienced players of this game, we know the reality, it is as bright as the sun. No need to argue on this ship anymore.

Addition: I could not stand, I had to write. Boarding was ehhh... Now what happens in reality, the Hamburg can not escape, the other ship just fills boarding ready and when hamburg disengage boarding, snow goes chain boarding, give him some damage and disengage when time comes. At the same time Le Req in already in good position just grapes hamburg with 32 carros, and fills his prep to %100. When snow disengage boarding, Xebec boards and finishes the job. This battle in reality, should last much shorter with experienced pvpers if the Hamburger does not have DD perk, even it does not so big deal, just a bit longer battle.

 

Edited by AeRoTR
Addition part added.
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I swore i wouldn't touch the DLC ships until they are reviewed, reworked etc. I stand to my beliefs. And I will defend both ships, make no mistakes.

But will also defend no extremely refitted ships all the same. So honestly...

All what mods have to do is make my Fav ship op. If they do it's fine, if not then Nerf the **** out of the other ships but not mods.

"So nerf the **** out of the xebec and herc!"

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