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[suggestion] Academy ship


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This will be brief.

 

Mechanic works like this:

- upon getting sunk the player has the option to stay in the nearest port ( free, or nation ) or go to the nearest outpost.

 

Observation:

- Given there's the option to go to outpost, there's no more need for a commander to rely on a Basic Cutter.

 

Suggestion:

- change attributes of Basic Cutter so it is an "academy" ship. Meaning that it can only be used by the very first 3 ranks.

 

 

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I think limiting to first 3 ranks it a bit too much, but I support the idea. Maybe when the captain can start piloting 3rd rates? I only say because sometimes (and I have been through this myself a few times) you don't have the money to get a decent ship to build back up the cash. At the very least, by the time a captain can sail a bellona he "should" be good enough to know when to run from AI before it gets hairy and sinks.

 

Also, not too sure, but might this not be seen as punishing those that don't own DLC?

Edited by Johnny Rotten
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1 hour ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

This will be brief.

 

Mechanic works like this:

- upon getting sunk the player has the option to stay in the nearest port ( free, or nation ) or go to the nearest outpost.

 

Observation:

- Given there's the option to go to outpost, there's no more need for a commander to rely on a Basic Cutter.

 

Suggestion:

- change attributes of Basic Cutter so it is an "academy" ship. Meaning that it can only be used by the very first 3 ranks.

 

 

A downside to this suggestion would be the case where a person is involved in a battle a good distance from any of their outposts and after sinking they wished to return to the battle as soon as possible, but on arriving in the nearest free or nation port they find that there are no suitable ships on sale. They are now forced to buy any ship that is their rather than take a free basic cutter to sail to the next port as they cannot teleport from a town they have no outpost in.

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15 minutes ago, Archaos said:

A downside to this suggestion would be the case where a person is involved in a battle a good distance from any of their outposts and after sinking they wished to return to the battle as soon as possible, but on arriving in the nearest free or nation port they find that there are no suitable ships on sale. They are now forced to buy any ship that is their rather than take a free basic cutter to sail to the next port as they cannot teleport from a town they have no outpost in.

And on the way to the next port he could still engage into pvp while on a basic cutter he cant.

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32 minutes ago, Archaos said:

A downside to this suggestion would be the case where a person is involved in a battle a good distance from any of their outposts and after sinking they wished to return to the battle as soon as possible, but on arriving in the nearest free or nation port they find that there are no suitable ships on sale. They are now forced to buy any ship that is their rather than take a free basic cutter to sail to the next port as they cannot teleport from a town they have no outpost in.

What you going to do when you exit to nearest friendly port anyway ? Sai a basic cutter to do.... what exactly ? Sail to your outpost ?

You could just exit to the outpost right away.

Or am I missing something ?

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54 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

What you going to do when you exit to nearest friendly port anyway ? Sai a basic cutter to do.... what exactly ? Sail to your outpost ?

You could just exit to the outpost right away.

Or am I missing something ?

You could sail to the next closest port to find a ship to buy. There are issues with the basic cutter but it is still required so a person cannot become stranded in a port unable to buy another ship and unable to teleport. If you can solve these issues then you could remove the basic cutter from the game. Its the same reason that the abuses of the tow to port function have to be overlooked, because there is a chance that a person may get stuck somewhere and need to be able to get out without intervention from the Devs.

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Tow to Port exists as a emergency measure to get unstuck. If you use for other ends it is on you.

Tell me, in which situations will you be stranded in a port away from home IF when you lose a ship you exit to friendly port or closest outpost.Tell me it is not just a excuse to be able to sail from A to B in a free ship when I sit in millions of gold and could well exit to outpost when I have lots of ships ready to sail.

Please, tell me it is not to transport books and extra refits or farm marks in patrol zones.

C'mon, be honest and tell one single situation where a player would voluntarily get himself stuck when the mechanics do protect said player from making that mistake.

Saying that "one might get stranded in a far away port" is nothing. Describe the specific situation.

- is the player killed ? I doubt.

- is the player sailing a ship that he wants to put on sale ? Can be, but is on the player, take a fleet ship to get out. Plus I doubt anyone with zero gold going to sail a ship to sell in a god forsaken port.

Tell us, what else ? Remember, tow to port is a emergency measure to get unstuck, if you use it any other way you throw away your safety card voluntarily.

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19 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

Two to Port exists as a emergency measure to get unstuck. If you use for other ends it is on you.

Tell me, in which situations will you be stranded in a port away from home IF when you lose a ship you exit to friendly port or closest outpost.Tell me it is not just a excuse to be able to sail from A to B in a free ship when I sit in millions of gold and could well exit to outpost when I have lots of ships ready to sail.

Please, tell me it is not to transport books and extra refits or farm marks in patrol zones.

C'mon, be honest and tell one single situation where a player would voluntarily get himself stuck when the mechanics do protect said player from making that mistake.

Saying that "one might get stranded in a far away port" is nothing. Describe the specific situation.

- is the player killed ? I doubt.

- is the player sailing a ship that he wants to put on sale ? Can be, but is on the player, take a fleet ship to get out. Plus I doubt anyone with zero gold going to sail a ship to sell in a god forsaken port.

Tell us, what else ? Remember, tow to port is a emergency measure to get unstuck, if you use it any other way you throw away your safety card voluntarily.

As long as there is a possibility to end up in a port where you do not have an outpost there is a possibility of getting stuck there. Not everyone has millions to buy a ship at any price and there may be some ports where all the NPC ships apart from basic cutters have been sold (I am not sure how quickly ports restock ships). I randomly checked in a quiet port and there were only 5 Brigs and 3 Mercs for sale and 1000 basic cutters, could it be possible that all the other ships could be bought out leaving the person with no options to leave the port?

You are proposing a change to solve other ingame abuses of a last resort system which is exactly the same as the abuses of the tow to port function.

Personally I always go to an outpost if killed in a battle but many do not for whatever reason. If you bring in such a change then you may as well not give people the option to go to nearest free or nation port when killed in battle and automatically make them go back to their nearest outpost or you would have to allow teleport from a port you do not have an outpost in.

There are a few reasons you could get stranded, you may have misclicked the option to go to nearest port, you may end up in a port where there are no ships for sale or only ships at exorbitant prices which you do not have the money to buy. These may be unlikely but that does not mean it couldnt happen. I have never in the game ended up in a situation where I needed to use tow to port because I was stuck, this does not mean it is not possible.

Your solution, although it may remove certain abuses leaves the possibility that people may get stuck in a port.

Edit: Also what happens if you lose all your ships and money? how do you start over without access to a free ship?

Edited by Archaos
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11 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Also what happens if you lose all your ships and money? how do you start over without access to a free ship?

If you own less that 300k you can sail a BCutter. That was answered and is a good one, because everyone gets 300k plus thousands of repairs upon successful exit of the Academy - Tutorial and Exams.

But hey, you are right.

Anyone above First Lieutenant can use the Basic Cutter.

But without guns and without cargo hold. Just a taxi.

Fair enough ?

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10 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

How ?

I explained how, you lose your ship in battle and you intend to go back to your outpost as you have no money but instead you click on go to nearest port. You are now stuck in a port without money to buy a ship if it is available or even if you do have the money there may not be ships for sale (As I said I am not sure how quickly ports replenish the npc ships other than basic cutters)

 

12 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

If you own less that 300k you can sail a BCutter. That was answered and is a good one, because everyone gets 300k plus thousands of repairs upon successful exit of the Academy - Tutorial and Exams.

So the people that currently abuse the use of basic cutters just make sure they have less than 300k on them by transferring it to an alt or friend before they head out, so your solution changes nothing.

I am not opposed to your solution, I am just playing devils advocate and looking for flaws in it. Personally I do not use the basic cutter for transporting anything as there are better and safer ships that can be used. I do not even use it to get from port to port without risk to open new outposts as again there are faster safer ships that can be used for this (A speed fitted Le Requin will not be caught unless very unlucky).

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Just now, Archaos said:

So the people that currently abuse the use of basic cutters just make sure they have less than 300k on them by transferring it to an alt or friend before they head out, so your solution changes nothing.

See above.

No guns, no hold space.

Just taxi.

That perfectly serves the mistakes made.

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22 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

If you own less that 300k you can sail a BCutter. That was answered and is a good one, because everyone gets 300k plus thousands of repairs upon successful exit of the Academy - Tutorial and Exams.

But hey, you are right.

Anyone above First Lieutenant can use the Basic Cutter.

But without guns and without cargo hold. Just a taxi.

Fair enough ?

Can we not just add another ship in shop that does exactly this and implement the basic cutter limitation?

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Do like what POTBS did, you had fallback ships up to a certain level (like the Cerberus or Snow can't remember).   You sink you get sent back to a port you own (not closes friendly it has to be a port you have an out post in).   Than you can get in one of your ships.  You can not pull a fallback ship until all your war ships have been sunk than you can use that ship.  It had the base stats of that ship (so lets say a crappy Oak/Oak ship).  So it was something you didn't want to stay in but could use until you could buy or build a new ship.  This will stop the RA's using basic cutters all the time.  They should not be in basic cutters. 

Now I don't mind the basic cutter being used for the first 3 ranks and that is it.  Than maybe have a fall back ship that some one can get if they are higher level.   Something in the 7th rate level or even the Cerberus but in Oak/Oak build only no random trims.

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13 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You sink you get sent back to a port you own (not closes friendly it has to be a port you have an out post in).   Than you can get in one of your ships.  You can not pull a fallback ship until all your war ships have been sunk

Well, we are pretty much there. Just make it Exit to nearest Outpost. Can buy Basic Cutter if owns no other ship.

Well played Texas sir.

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On 8/6/2018 at 10:53 AM, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

Well, we are pretty much there. Just make it Exit to nearest Outpost. Can buy Basic Cutter if owns no other ship.

Well played Texas sir.

May I ask have you ever been involved in problem solving in a commercial environment? Because you have made a classic mistake here by following the trail of a discussion and solutions proposed and thinking you have arrived at a solution without going back to see if it solved what was the original problem or has the requirement of the original mechanic still been met.

Why did they ever have the option to go to nearest friendly or neutral port? It was to avoid the situation and frustration of someone spending hours sailing half way across the map only to get sunk before they arrived at their destination and be back at square one and being ready to rage quit. If you only had exit to nearest outpost then this problem would arise.

If you have an issue with basic cutters you need to address those issues directly not other game mechanics that were introduced for a good reason. The only available as a taxi with no guns or no hold space was a better solution but could still be abused by spies and alts.

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