Caribbean suggestions

[nornica]

Ok guys, I'm making my small topic, for problems, informations and suggestions I have about this game, I don't want to spam forum with dozens of small topic, so I will put all of them in one place.
I hope it won't be a problem for You, and have a good read.

First of all I would like to write about the bigginin of pirate life. Everyone know the history of Henry Avery. The first famous pirate who as most people believed at that time lived the rest of his life in England, being rich and happy.
There are no informations about him being captured or executed, but most likely he wanted to sell his diamonds, found the dealers, who told him they will pay him some silly amount of gold for it, or they will turn him in to the police and army. So he sold everything he had and died as a poor man on a streets of some small english port.

But, thats only suggestions.
How it started? He was contracted as second officer on a flag ship called Charles II and with 3 other ships sailed on a mission to Spain, get the corsair document, and sail to Carribean, to make a trade, and maybe plunder some french ships.
But after few months waiting in a spanish port, they with few friends realised that the rich trade company owners abandoned them, they will never get those documents, and most likely they are now held captive in a port.
So in the night they decided to ran. They managed to flee with Charles II. He was the captain now.
After few days he gave the old captain and few crew members the choice to sail with them, or go free.
He didnt let free the ship doctor tho. He decided that he was too precious.

And thats number one for Naval Action.
I've read that there will be officers in game, but what about specialised crew? Will it be possible if boarding victory will occur, to capture the specialised persons? Like better doctors, cooks, bosmans? dunno? Would be cool.

But coming back to Avery.
He decided with his crew, that they will split plundered gold etc. much better for everyone, The captain now took only 2x more than normal crew member. Every decision was democratically voted, but in the battle, everyone should listen to Captian only.
They sailed to madagaskar, the legend told that he made there his town/village, he was attacking small villages along the coast. He was a bit racist, cause when he captured the white sailors mostly he set them free. The black or arab people didn't have such luck.

And here im closing to the first most awesome thing he did.
He got informations that the convoy of Mongol treasure fleet is headin near them.
Now in Fancy (renamed Charles II), he hided in some fancy place and decided to wait for a fleet. Like in a old reunion meeting, on the place he meet 2 sloops of other corsais, and after a day the other famous pirate Thomes Tew from america joined them also.
They all meet and decided they will fight together the treasure fleet, and split equally the prize.

It was 4 sloops, with 6 cannons each, Fancy with 46 cannons, and 6 cannon brig. They hid behind small island and waited.
After few days the treasure fleet arrived, it was 25 ships. They sailed so silent in night, that the pirates didn't saw the first ships passing them.

But for they luck They managed to catch the slow Ketch.
Next was Faith Mahmamadi, the similar to fancy ship, but only with 6 cannons. The Fancy shot one broadside and the ship surrended.

Last one was Ganj-i-sawai. The enormous trade ship, with 80 cannons, with 400 muskets, and 800 person crew.
And guess what? He captured them!
He shot the mast, breaking it, and made a boarding.
100 pirates vs 800.
Yes, the pirates won. The morale of 800 crew was so low they almost didn't fight at all. Maybe they should, pirates murdered, raped and tortured almost everything what was moving and was alive on that ship.

Soo, this bring me to boarding mechanic. As we can sse, the morale is damn important. Not only numbers count, I hope it will change in future. So the smaller ships could have a chance to capture the bigger ones.
Like the reputation of players captain was so dreadfull that enemy crew was scared and stuff.

Ok, I wont bore You with the rest of Avery history.

 

Now lets get to the prices.
In other topic I mentioned that owning/building a ship was extremely expencive. And it was just one problem, second the price of cannons. I will give You now some numbers so You will see what i'm talking about:
- one musket  3 lb.

 - one 4pound cannon was worth 16lb!

- living apartment in center of Boston was worth 20lb!

- doctor in london earned in a year 5lb for family

- trading sloop 10t was worth 30 lb

- frigate 350t with 36 cannons was worth 8200lb!

- sailor earned 11lb a year

- first officer 4lb

- captain of trade navy 65lb

- the fukin prince of Newcastle 25000lb a year

- You would earn 7500lb a year if You had a plantation on Barbados!

 

As You can see, the prices for ownin a ship were extreme high.
Thats why I would like to see much more different smaller ships. And as many people said earlier in other topic, the ships of the line should be like something extremely rare, like superduper rare.
You know that all bahamas for many early years of XVIII century was guarded only by one british frigate? And because of the bad wind from the east she couldnt even sai fast enough to help the villages and ships in the north east of bahama islands?
Thats why almost everything what was sailing in this area were smaller ships, who could easily turn and sail upwind.
Of course Im talking about private sector, not navy.

Most captains even if they got a big ship, (big like brig or something similar), got only 4 or max 6 cannons on it.

Now for the next part, why SOL where so rare in carribean. Cause of wood!
As You all know the storms in that area were extremely dangerous, they could destroy all the cities, You know that Port Royale was almost wiped out of the map cause of hurricane? The Nassau lost almost all they citizens and more then 50 ships which were docked in a port sunked?
And now we are siting in our SOL, the storm comes, everything is broken, and we want to rebuild it.. but with what? palm trees? that sux, we have to sail back to europe, to fix some damn small mast!

Also something that was mentioned earlier: the rotting of a ship. Under the water there were some fancy bugs and sea stuff that caused ship would just sink. Do You know that in one battle near havana the 4 of 6 frigates that stationed there had to turn back to port cause they were so rotten?
Only possible way to get rid of this was docking in on some good beach, with a lot of wood, or some wrecked ship, turn it side by side and clean it.

It would be nice to force players to clean their ships from time to time, forcing them to find good spots to do it. Making them vulnerable for some time, or risking that they armor and gaining water would be a problem.

Ok I'll finish my first post here.
Hope some people will read thru it all.
If people will like it, I will continue to write more about livin as a pirate, bucc, navy or trade crew member in that time.
Hope my english wasn't tragic.
Ahoy.

[nornica]

Goddamit, i made a spelling error in title.. good.. good.. fuck. :|

[admin]

Goddamit, i made a spelling error in title.. good.. good.. fuck. :|

we can fix it.. 

what title you want for this post?

[nornica]

i made a typo in "Carribean", it should be "Caribbean". Thank You

[nornica]

Why so many sailors liked pirate life? not only because of treasures and adventures.
Mostly because of very brutal and unfair treating on Naval ships and unfair payment on trade ships.
Almost every pirate in that time was a sailor or officer who sailed in the Navy.

Because of long war, there was great need for new sailors, who died like crazy during war journeys. Not only because of enemy fire. Most of them die because of poor food and sickness, lack of vitamin C, and tropical diseases.
Ships who sailed from Europe to America sometimes lose 90% of crew, before arriving there.
There is a note in history that big ship who was sailing back to Europe had only 14 crew members alive, from over 300.

The crown and trade companies looked for money everywhere, so cutting food portions wasn't a problem. People would close they eye not to see the maggots which were crawling on rotten meat or bread-alike pieces.
If You got injured during the battle, You were useless, they let You die, or drop of in nearest port, mostlikely without any payment.

Who would even join the navy?
People who join navy on their own will were mostly crazy, stupid, or had no idea what was going on there.
Sailors were terrified. And thats why There were terminator groups, who would walk on streets of ports, cities, who would catch sailors. They were looking for people in coats covered in tar (tar prevented water to go thru coats), who walked in special way like every sailor who spend most of life on see walk.
They forced him, drunk him, made him sign documents that would most likely give the terminator groups 99% of the sailor payment for all his life in the navy, etc.
If somehow the sailor survived it all, he was put on land with something like check for payment, but what if he was in caribbean? he would get his payment in that regional money, which had much less value than europe value.

How trade companies took money from sailors?
They would take insurance from sailor payment for every damaged material on the ship, the material that was put in place under the eye of trade officer!
Sometimes after years of sailing such sailor would be more broke then before he joined such ship.

The worst thing that could happen, the sailors who were going on land from a trade ship, were immedietly catched and draged on Navy ships.

The discipline on Navy ships was hold by terror, only few captain knew that it is not a right way to do.
If You drop some equipment You would lose hand, or get beaten with a whip. And not like in a movies 20-30. It was like 200-300 hits with 6 headed whip. Most likely it was certain death. The punishments for disobeying or doing something wrong were terrible.

So when You heard about pirate ships, what would You rather chose?

What was the worst ship You could live on?
The line ship.
It was used only in certain time of a battle, sitting for hours, or days, waiting for that special moment, to make a 3 ship formation with a line ship in a middle, just to go by the enemy formation and fire all cannons.
As a sailor You would like on a deck full of cannons, food, living stock, animals, goats, cows, damn, there was everything. And You were sleeping in a hammock in a front of a ship, where you felt waves the most.
Then there was order, You stand near Your cannon for few hours and wait.
Order to fire, enemy fire too. The wood pieces cut thru human flesh like bullets, dozens of bodies fall in a one big pile of guts and blood.

And this is my first suggestion about cannons and loosing crews. People died like crazy from normal fire, not only grape shots. Maybe there should be increased amount of crew lose after every broadside? Just thinkin.

Ahoy.

[Naxos]

+1 good read

 

Very interesting to learn about the cost of living at that time. And interesting that a sailor earned more than a doctor at that time and that even a small sized cannon was worth 2-4 lives

 

The ships should cost money to maintain them, bigger ones more than smaller ones. The question is however how realistic you want to get? Only whole nations could afford capital ships then, dont think that this is very healthy for the game (for realism yes, but for the fun?). Or did any pirates had ships of the line?

 

And morale could be a nice factor for the final version, consequently, higher paid sailors (or those receiving a lot of expensive rum) should fight better than slaves or sailors from prisons, just pushed into service.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Err...I believe you're wrong on a number of counts.  People in battles didn't die like flies, quite often there were surprisingly few injuries and deaths resulting from an hours long battle - a quick read of some of the more famous naval actions shows a comparatively light loss of life.  Worst place was on a line ship?  Sure, maybe if you ended up in the mid-decks during a large action like Trafalgar (such actions happened, but are comparatively few over time), but a larger ship of the line generally spent most of its wartime on blockade, where death from boredom was far more likely than from action.  While there wasn't much in the way of prize money, you could be assured of plenty of food to eat, free alcohol, clothing, a deck over your head, and a place to sleep, which is far more than some of the folks on those ships could expect if put ashore, where you didn't have the social programs you have today to keep them fed, clothed, and housed.  

 

Hammocks only in the forecastle?  No, due to the large number of men, they were often spread throughout the major gun deck(s) of the ship.  Yes, there were a few cabins for the higher ranked gentlemen, but in general there were hammocks all over the place to accommodate the large number of men a warship required, not just in the forecastle.

 

While I am sure there were some ships with flogging tyrants for Captains or other officers, I've also heard tell that very often those officers that pushed the discipline too far met with....accidents.  Ships were quite dangerous you know.    Flogging wasn't certain death, and at least in the British Navy, small offenses didn't mean certain death or the loss of a hand.

 

Stores in the Caribbean itself were quite sparse, however, there were a lot of resources closer by than the European Continent, be it South American or American ports.

 

I think instead of maggots you're thinking about weevils. Yes, they got pretty bad in the hard tack on a long voyage.  The salt beef and salt pork, while not the most appetizing thing after being boiled to a crisp, could stay nutritious for quite some time.

 

Hull rot was certainly an issue.  There are quite a few marine animals that enjoy boring into wood.  Early ships were tallowed to prevent this, later ships had copper sheeting attached to their bottoms to slow down the ability of the more destructive animals to bore in.  Ships could be beached or drydocked and careened, which, even if they were coppered, had to be done to remove speed killing growths of weed that could occur in the warmer climates.  At times, sailors who could swim might be asked to dive down and cut away the worst of the growth at the depths to which they could reach easily.

 

As for ships of the line, they existed throughout the world at various times, sometimes in respectable sized fleets, in response to threats in those areas.  Did they deteriorate in those areas?  Certainly, just as they did on extended blockade duties close to home.  Constant working and weathering will fatigue any material, especially wood.  After years of service, some of the better maintained could be restored to good condition, and the worse condemned to be transports or supply hulks.

[Don Alvarez]

- the fukin prince of Newcastle 25000lb a year

 

For whatever reason, every time I go over this line I just crack up laughing.

 

Hope my english wasn't tragic.

 

Not at all friend, not at all. Very entertaining post and some good ideas.

[nornica]

Thank You Henry for corrections and Your point of view

Good to hear some other opinions about sea life in that century.
Nice to see that some of You actually read all that stuff I will write something more tomorrow.

[Robert Danforth]

Honestly, most volunteers in the Navy (those who weren't pressed) joined for adventure and stability in their life. The Navy, unlike the Army, was also a good place to better yourself; plenty of officers started as seamen (but then didn't we all, hurr hurr).

 

It was never as glamorous as it was made out to be, of course, but if you were poor and had no real prospects in life, may as well go join the Navy for the chance of something special. Plus the usual patriotism that inspires many a man to fight for his country.

 

For that matter, I don't think it's all that different today.

[Wakelessrex]

Good Read Norn!

 

you bring up some interesting point's about crew and game mechanics. Don't know if it's been talked about but a "specialist crew" system would be great especially for Surgeons! as they were very crucial to morale/ship.

which is another thing, Morale!

 

I would love for that to be implemented in the game somehow! 

 

Interesting bit of history and I especially love the bits about comparison of cost/wealth.

If you know of anymore or the source to which you got those please do share

 

I take it from this read you intend to be a pirate then? XD

[nornica]

Wakelessrex thanks for read as You promised

I got a sources from books about pirate/sea life etc.
One of the latest was The Republic of Pirates by Colin Woodart.

Haha,yeah, I would like to put some democracy on the caribbean islands

[Balck]

Ok guys, I'm making my small topic...

Lies, damnable lies!

 

Good read

 

As a native of the Caribbean, its largest island, I found your writing quite entertaining

[Mirones]

Because of long war, there was great need for new sailors, who died like crazy during war journeys. Not only because of enemy fire. Most of them die because of poor food and sickness, lack of vitamin C, and tropical diseases.

Ships who sailed from Europe to America sometimes lose 90% of crew, before arriving there.

There is a note in history that big ship who was sailing back to Europe had only 14 crew members alive, from over 300.

 

 

HMS Centurio of the Blue Squadron the remaining 14crew members where not alone they where the once that returned and have been on the jurney from the beginning missing crew was refilled in south america and in the pacific.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Centurion_%281732%29