Cut PB Timer cost

[Liq]

500k (+100k for the port) per timer, per port, per day.. is way too much

After 5300 hours of playing the game I don't really want to PvE just to deny being work-flipped / night-flipped / you-name-it-flipped.

So two possible approaches

1. Lower timer cost
2. Enable the option to pay for port timers with pvp marks, maybe 5-10 pvp marks per port per day.

The second option would also "cut" the amount of PvP marks on the server and thus cut its inflation, making them more valuable again, making pvp more rewarding.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Liq

[Liq]

3 minutes ago, Coraline Vodka said:

Sell pvp marks ?

been trying to, but they don't seem to sell lately simply because everyone has plenty of them, and there is no real use for them - except navy hull refit?

being able to use marks for port maintenance cost would solve two things at once

[Christendom]

I agree with you, but I also feel like if this game had 2000 people like it should most ports would be making money and this issue wouldn't such a big deal.  One bonus of this increase timer costs is that nations don't own blocks of ports all with the same time that you simply just cannot attack.  Only a few ports are worth the cost now.

[Gregory Rainsborough]

"simply just cannot attack"

Multiflips

Pick one.

[Christendom]

1 hour ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

"simply just cannot attack"

Multiflips

Pick one.

We made a special event to multi flip serious timer dodgers like yourself.  It worked.  It wasn't a daily thing though.  You didn't seem to learn from your lesson however and you STILL set timers outside of prime time hours, and in the case of little cayman, change those timers daily just to avoid fights against superior opponents.  Your block of 11-14 timer ports in the bahamas prior to the increase in port costs was most likely one of the biggest contributors to the change being complained about in this thread.  Congrats 🙂 

Anyway Liq's post here is not to debate with salty dodgers who lost all their ports.  Move past it Greg  

[Tom Farseer]

1 hour ago, Christendom said:

and in the case of little cayman, change those timers daily just to avoid fights against superior opponents.

I am not gonna go into the whole Bahamas thing.... True in part, over exaggerated by both sides.
But that statement is utter bullshit. We had the timer in prime time and gave the spanish a beating as they were trying to flip it the first time. After that the had to get the help of a heavy russian fleet. After managing to flip it and getting their full PB fleet in, they were beat with a player commanding the British fleet who in relation to others is still fairly in experienced at commanding battles (Me, in case you are wondering, was my first PB at the helm....). Not saying I did it flawlessly (hell, no I didn't...) but the spanish certainly are not the superior force here. I'd say we are about even and who wins depends on daily form (as of tomorrow we'll test it again) and british numbers on the server (not counting those that chose GB because it says "Easy" on the selection screen).

[Tom Farseer]

Anyways... Rant finished, let's get back on topic:
I actually concur with your statement that with a higher player count the cost would be much more manageable, maybe even equalized by higher tax earnings. Alas that is currently not the case, resulting in Ports running without timers which will get night-flipped (happy PvE-RvR), or clans with low numbers grinding endlessely to keep strategic resources.
 

Suggestion drop timer cost to 150k. (250k max), then see how it unfolds.

[z4ys]

I see it like this: Devs want to make us think about our action. (NA has a lot of decision making) Expensive port timers make us evaluate what ports are really important for us.  One clan shouldnt own the whole map. Thats not the sense of clan rvr. Clan RvR is rvr of grps that may work or may not work together.

I agree with christendom if we had more player we would have a lot more clans and they might think that the one clan port that they own is really valuable for them. Because its theirs.

I see no reason to reduce timer cost.  Yes its a flawed mechaning currently but looking at release it might not.

[Christendom]

7 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

I am not gonna go into the whole Bahamas thing.... True in part, over exaggerated by both sides.
But that statement is utter bullshit. We had the timer in prime time and gave the spanish a beating as they were trying to flip it the first time. After that the had to get the help of a heavy russian fleet. After managing to flip it and getting their full PB fleet in, they were beat with a player commanding the British fleet who in relation to others is still fairly in experienced at commanding battles (Me, in case you are wondering, was my first PB at the helm....). Not saying I did it flawlessly (hell, no I didn't...) but the spanish certainly are not the superior force here. I'd say we are about even and who wins depends on daily form (as of tomorrow we'll test it again) and british numbers on the server (not counting those that chose GB because it says "Easy" on the selection screen).

I'm not sure "a beating" is what you can call that PB when you didn't even sink one of their 1st rates.  Looked like the wind screwed Spain primarily.  But ok.  

Anyway just in the last few days I've seen 11-14, 16-19 and 17-20 all on little cayman.  This is timer manipulation and timer dodging, which are abuses that primarily caused the aforementioned increase in timer costs that Liq made this thread complaining about.  A happy medium needs to be found where putting a timer on the port is still costly AND nations need to think twice about putting vast amounts of them on ports .....   while still encouraging RVR.  My first post mentioned that if this game was properly full of players and had working economies 500k might not be such a terrible thing.   

Edited July 12, 2018 by Christendom

[Tiedemann]

If they make them cheaper we will just get even more late/early timers that are set just to avoid combat. I hate it, but the timers them self have to be expensive so they are not abused even more then they are now imo

[Tom Farseer]

1 hour ago, Christendom said:

I'm not sure "a beating" is what you can call that PB when you didn't even sink one of their 1st rates.  Looked like the wind screwed Spain primarily.  But ok. 

Answered about the "beating" in PMs. No need to muck the thread up further about a misunderstanding aon choice of words.

 

1 hour ago, Christendom said:

Anyway just in the last few days I've seen 11-14, 16-19 and 17-20 all on little cayman.  This is timer manipulation and timer dodging, which are abuses that primarily caused the aforementioned increase in timer costs that Liq made this thread complaining about.  A happy medium needs to be found where putting a timer on the port is still costly AND nations need to think twice about putting vast amounts of them on ports .....   while still encouraging RVR.  My first post mentioned that if this game was properly full of players and had working economies 500k might not be such a terrible thing.  

Which is exactly my point. It might not, with an appropriate player count. It is as it stands at the moment. My suggestion was for trying to find your "happy medium".

SNOW only holds one port right now. We pay for a timer. The spanish flipped it, both sides get content. Yes sometimes the PB Timer is 11-14 again. We don't have the numbers to keep up every day, every week. Other GB clans don't have the quality (Some have. Not dropping names.) The alternative is spain fighting either AI or noone in Little Cayman. What a blast that would be....
We have lives, instead of a prime-time set in stone. Get over it.

[Slim McSauce]

You kind of made your bed here with pvp marks. You shoulda just took the gold/captured ship reward instead of the magic ship notes from admiralty. Now the economy is shit, and you cant even reasonably sell ships on market anymore because everyone is running around in DLC/note ships.

[Gregory Rainsborough]

3 hours ago, Christendom said:

You didn't seem to learn from your lesson however and you STILL set timers outside of prime time hours, and in the case of little cayman, change those timers daily just to avoid fights against superior opponents. 

 

The timer was moved so I could watch the football in peace. This may come as a surprise to some but many of us have lives. I can see what Kingy means about you thinking the server revolves around you.

[Christendom]

13 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

The timer was moved so I could watch the football in peace. This may come as a surprise to some but many of us have lives. I can see what Kingy means about you thinking the server revolves around you.

A you really playing the “I have a life card”?  Laugh.  Cute I suppose, but no.  I watched you move timers around in the Bahamas to avoid fights months ago.  That’s what you do.  The dodger-in-chief reigns supreme.

[Dibbler (Retired)]

[Old Crusty]

I am fairly new to port battles but I do believe that any lowering in the cost of the timer should have an equal effect on the length of the timer. The less you pay, the longer the port battle window is.

 

Old Crusty

[Liq]

10 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

I am fairly new to port battles but I do believe that any lowering in the cost of the timer should have an equal effect on the length of the timer. The less you pay, the longer the port battle window is.

 

Old Crusty

I could live with that

[z4ys]

20 hours ago, Christendom said:

A you really playing the “I have a life card”?  Laugh.  Cute I suppose, but no.  I watched you move timers around in the Bahamas to avoid fights months ago.  That’s what you do.  The dodger-in-chief reigns supreme.

Don't throw bricks when you life in a glass house. We play NA for so long we are all guilty in the means of something.

Edited July 14, 2018 by z4ys

[Georg Fromm]

I read constantly, money has no meaning in the game. And then this thread? As a dealer, I think it's good that my work is not completely irrelevant. Maybe even a good option to reconsider his own arrogant attitude towards the PvE players

Edited July 14, 2018 by Hellmuth von Mücke

[Fenris]

On 7/12/2018 at 7:13 PM, Christendom said:

if this game had 2000 people like it should

This game won`t have 2000 players again, untill the things change radically.

[Fenris]

30 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

This was my proposal related to a cut of pb timer costs.

The funny thing is as soon as devs increased the costs I told them it was a mistake. 

Unfortunately we needed several weeks to realize that rvr was dying because of how unprofitable and useless is having more ports.

 

Nobody would care about costs, if the ports would drop money.

[z4ys]

28 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

 

.. as RvR is end-game. ...

Oh I thought encyclopedias are endgame? By now I am really confused 😞  

Funny thing how some players want some things immediately. But encycs should be hard to get.

Work for the ports - rate what's important - it's clan based RvR not national. Or is one clan suddenly a nation? Should one clan maintain the whole map? If I remember correct during Prussian start 2.0 some clans where happy as they got hands on any port. Just so they could own something.

In this case I wouldn't blame the system it's good. It leads us to make a choice. What's flawed is that we gank any portbattle attempts and call that screening. So small clans don't even have to participate in RvR. Why attack something in the first place with 10 guys when you can be sure the whole server will be there to screen? I like to quote rediii here who said "you need at least 25 first rates to even start hostility." 

Why else would players pull hostility missions on top of each other? Why we needed to get a timer after battles in order to join in a pb. Why we came up with so many exploits that made us join a Pb.

In my opinion what's flawed why we see so few Pb is the way to the pb. Not the pay of the timers. That's just mimimi by overextended clans that think they have to rule the map. 

[Georg Fromm]

45 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

But you don't own any ports, so? And yes, money is irrelevent, but that's not a good reason to just pour it into the sinkhole and watch it disappear. 

DNP clan has proved that they can easily pay timers for all ports they own and live with that for months. They like to be punished, but they also like their beauty sleep.

Broken RvR on many levels is one of the contributing reasons to low pop and especially veterans quitting as RvR is end-game. There is no reason for us to attack anything, our quality of life is better if we do NOTHING.

Yes, I have no ports and because I have no ports, my money assets increases by several millions every day. And if I joined a clan with harbors, I would use my money to help with the upkeep. So what do you want to tell me? Anyone who wants to build a world empire here should first think about whether he can afford it. 

If DNP can not pay the maintenance, then they have to give up a few ports, where is the problem? Does the game need to be redesigned so that a handful of PvP players can not only conquer a world empire but pay for it?

Although it may surprise you, the game is also played by players with other priorities. And the players contribute as much to the number of players as our PvPler

[Gregory Rainsborough]

On 7/13/2018 at 12:36 PM, Christendom said:

A you really playing the “I have a life card”?  Laugh.  Cute I suppose, but no.  I watched you move timers around in the Bahamas to avoid fights months ago.  That’s what you do.  The dodger-in-chief reigns supreme.

Some of us have to have a life, and thank God I've had one for quite a while, cue shock horror.

Perhaps when you've sat through 20+ empty port battles you'll see why I simply don't care about being called a dodger, better a dodger than a time waster which is what most of the port battles in the Bahamas were. Blame MAD for those timers.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Gregory Rainsborough

[Sento de Benimaclet]

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 6:47 PM, Liq said:

Enable the option to pay for port timers with pvp marks, maybe 5-10 pvp marks per port per day. 

No, PvP marks must be for PvP rewards or other needs. I agree with you that you should not pay for the PB timer, it is more than enough the 100,000 gold a day plus the tax for the goods sold. If they want to keep the 500,000 daily that substantially raise the money earned in combat orders. It does not make any sense to be encouraged to conquer ports and then have to abandon them because we can not keep them because of their high cost. And if the PB timer exists, it is because in European time, as in other latitudes, we can not defend the ports at the wee hours of the morning.