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Tiedemann

DLC premuim ships in Port Battles and The kiting is back

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Flinch, thank you man as you just perfectly illustrated my point. "The goal is to control enough circles (2 circles) to gain points.."  This is the mentality caused by the current mechanics that causes the kiting problem. We (KOTO) don't see PB's that way. We see a port battle as a "battle" an actual balanced team vs team fight. You've done hostility, you want a fight, were here for one lets go, fight to the death., best team wins. Not a "well you chase me and i'll chase you and we'll go round in circles capping points never firing a shot..." but hey we won! yay us.

In short we want to have some action and some fun. taking/defending the port matters not at all to us. The game has to much tag/chase/tag/chase game play as it is and port battles should not be that. Clue is kind of in the name, port "battle".

Quote

 

You brought just big ships, you were never going to win like that. If it hadn't have been me in a Herc it would have been me in a Snow, either way you would have lost control of that circle and the guy in the Bellona still would have died.

You lost because of bad tactics, not DLC ships. I agree that DLC ships shouldn't be in shallow port battles, like the Requin but it is fine in all others.

 

Greg, if you re-read what wrote i never mention that we lost the PB because of premium ships. PB mechanics are the problem, premium ships just make it worse by encouraging the kite mechanic and we don't care about the loss of the port or the port battle we care about the loss at a chance of a proper fight.

Edited by Chug

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1 minute ago, Chug said:

Flinch, thank you man as you just perfectly illustrated my point. "The goal is to control enough circles (2 circles) to gain points.."  This is the mentality caused by the current mechanics that causes the kiting problem. We (KOTO) don't see PB's that way. We see a port battle as a "battle" an actual balanced team vs team fight. You've done hostility, you want a fight, were here for one lets go, fight to the death., best team wins. Not a "well you chase me and i'll chase you and we'll go round in circles capping points never firing a shot..." but hey we won! yay us.

In short we want to have some action and some fun. taking/defending the port matters not at all to us. The game has to much tag/chase/tag/chase game play as it is and port battles should not be that. Clue is kind of in the name, port "battle".

No idiot. I'm not making your point. If you want a 'battle' then contest during the hostility missions. If you want a PB that requires strategy, prepare for that strategy. You probably could've downgraded to a fleet full of bellonas instead with a few requins in support, you could split your fleet between two points and win. Their ships are not going to touch a couple bellonas in a circle.

I'm telling you your philosophy is plain wrong.

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I like the old Port Battles when you captured towers in the middle of the ocean :D Felt like a strategical advantage to destroy or even take and use them for yourself. Not a fan of fighting over a random circle in a middle of no-where which does nothing other  than make battles end quicker. If the circles were there to capture the coastal fortifications to turn them onto there side i wouldn't mind. 

By the way i'm not blaming/shaming the guys that went to the PB and won it, fair play. It's just lame mechanics reinforced by DLC ships.

I like Ports Battle to mean something other that gaining points quickly to obtain 90% of the time a worthless port and a different coloured dot on the map.

Lets get off who and what is to blame why we lost, I don't like the Mechanics in the PB, Hostility, Random circles. I want a fun battles :) 

 

 

We had a fight outside a Port once a good 1st Rate vs 1st Rate fleet in the bay with Spanish, No circles and it turned into the best fight i've had since returning.

(And i got blown up early in the fight)

Both sides lost alot but the Spanish won. Think @Christendom Spanish guys were there. Was amazing fun. 

Was the battle.

Spannishj.jpg

 

Edited by Bloody Hound

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18 minutes ago, Flinch said:

No idiot. I'm not making your point. If you want a 'battle' then contest during the hostility missions. If you want a PB that requires strategy, prepare for that strategy. You probably could've downgraded to a fleet full of bellonas instead with a few requins in support, you could split your fleet between two points and win. Their ships are not going to touch a couple bellonas in a circle.

I'm telling you your philosophy is plain wrong.

First off, no need to immediately jump to name calling. Second, we were not about for the hostility. We don't live in the game and cant be on all the time. 3rd, what you call strategy is what we call boring kiting (kind of the point of this topic). 4th, we brought what we could, all very well to say "well you could of brought X players in X ships.." You play with what you have at the time. 5th,  so your "strategy" is full Bellona fleet split in half over 2 points with a few Requins ( kinda proving this topics point with those, but moving on..) so you think at most 6 Bellona's could take on their 3 L'Oceans, 2 Vic's plus all the rest? Well that's a nice thought Flinch. 

trying to keep things on track. The whole point of posting this PB was to show that while premium ships are a problem in PB's they are not THE problem it's the  cirlce/points mechanics that are at fault. They seem to discourage people from actually fighting and just encourage kiting.

Edited by Chug

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15 minutes ago, Chug said:

First off, no need to immediately jump to name calling. Second, we were not about for the hostility. We don't live in the game and cant be on all the time. 3rd, what you call strategy is what we call boring kiting. 4th, we brought what we could, all very well to say "well you could of brought X players in X ships.." You play with what you have at the time. Hindsight can make even an idiot look smart. 5th,  so your "strategy" is full Bellona fleet split in half over 2 points with a few Requins ( kinda proving this topics point with those, but moving on..) so you think at most 6 Bellona's could take on their 3 L'Oceans, 2 Vic's plus all the rest? Well that's a nice thought Flinch.

I don't think 7-8 bellonas could take 5 first rates directly no, but since their fleet would be slower than you they would need to split their forces between multiple circles, while you could react fast with quicker bellonas and gang up 6 bellonas on 2 first rates. Etc. Its tactics, strategy. Whatever. Defenders have a distinct advantage with forts, the attackers must reach 1000 points, and no wasted BR on a motor brig. 

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On 7/12/2018 at 10:29 PM, Tiedemann said:

Yes we would use 1 or maybe even 2 Le Requin no mater what and before that we would use Princes. But we would never have brought Le Requins or even a Hercules into a deep water PB, unless we where not forced to adapt to your fleet setup.. This is the truth, I swear to god almighty!

And you knew our port battle fleet setup before you set sail from George Town how exactly? 

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I also find it funny that even though the Brits in these cases were only doing what is encouraged by the port battle design AND exactly what every other nation does in every port battle. But because it was Brits, we are somehow the bad guys and it is worthy of a complaint on the forums.

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On 7/14/2018 at 3:16 PM, NethrosDefectus said:

bla bla bla...

GB are not the bad guys, your just using the ingame mechanics and this is legit. We are fighting GB mostly now, so that is why I'm using our pbs (Spanish vs GB) as the example. It is not intended to paint you guys as the bad guys.

I posted this thread because pbs is what keeps me in this game and I fear it is now broken. PBs should gives opportunity for an good equal fight, and that is very rare in this game. Now I fear they are getting unwinnable, because of these small and fast OP premium ships that we use more and more. They sail into a circle and shot a little and then run away to repair, then repeat. 


Latest pb Spanish 6 premium ships - GB 8, and this is in a 2500BR port battle.
20180716222807_1.thumb.jpg.52a1878ccc3fe51bdc49745197002fcc.jpg   

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26 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

GB are not the bad guys, your just using the ingame mechanics and this is legit. We are fighting GB mostly now, so that is why I'm using our pbs (Spanish vs GB) as the example. It is not intended to paint you guys as the bad guys.

I posted this thread because pbs is what keeps me in this game and I fear it is now broken. PBs should gives opportunity for an good equal fight, and that is very rare in this game. Now I fear they are getting unwinnable, because of these small and fast OP premium ships that we use more and more. They sail into a circle and shot a little and then run away to repair, then repeat. 


Latest pb Spanish 6 premium ships - GB 8, and this is in a 2500BR port battle.
20180716222807_1.thumb.jpg.52a1878ccc3fe51bdc49745197002fcc.jpg   

I don't see a problem here.

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2 minutes ago, Flinch said:

I don't see a problem here. 

I do: That battle was absolutely no fun.
I literally did exactly what @Tiedemann described as "Whack-a-Mole" against Christoph (Herc vs Bellona) for the last 30 or so minutes of that battle just to keep them from generating enough points to win. I'd much rather have a good brawl, honestly.
But for as long as we need that Teak Ports (which is basically forever, considering GBs situation) we will have to do everything in order to win those PBs. In a brawl we probably would have lost, because our Wasas were no match for the two spanish Bellonas, yet a brawl would have probably been more fun in my opinion.

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If you're having trouble then perhaps change your setup.

We had to do this when fighting the French, the game cannot revolve around your way of playing, you must adapt and change to suit the mechanics as irritating as that is.

If it wasn't a Requin, it'd be a Prince or something else.

Edited by Gregory Rainsborough

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Personally I think the change allowing shallow water ships (other than MBs) into deep port battles was a foolish one.  Allowing DLC ships into any port battle is even more foolish.    

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5 hours ago, Christendom said:

Personally I think the change allowing shallow water ships (other than MBs) into deep port battles was a foolish one.  Allowing DLC ships into any port battle is even more foolish.    

Current DLC ships yes but if next DLC ship is 12pd frigate she should be allowed in port battles

Edited by Lovec1990

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13 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

If it wasn't a Requin, it'd be a Prince or something else.

Nobody brought 5+ small ships into deep water pbs before we got the premium ships. The Prince de Something is much easier to kill and it is only fast upwind, not in both directions..
At the end of the day attackers need to kill defenders or chase them out of the circles, and this is hard/impossible when you can just run away..

@Admin and @ink - The RvR part of you Age of Sails world is on fire here! 😭

Best solution imo would be that the team with the highest BR in the circle gets the points. The feature that we can deny the enemy team points by having a single ship in their circle is to exploitable and should be removed. Only way to stop enemy gaining points should be to by taking the circle with more BR. Then we get decisive battles in pbs again.
I'm not sure if it would cure the premium ship plague in RvR instantly, but it would seriously make them consider bringing ships for fighting and not for kiting. At the very least it would make victory possible for attackers again.

But as mentioned by some one else here, rising the BR of the Hercules and Le Requin even higher would work as a emergency quick fix. Make them both 200+ BR, just to get them the hell out of RvR. Only issue then is that they become extremely good screening ships in shallow water 🤣    

Edited by Tiedemann
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